Beniboybling Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 OK Slowpoke, all I'm seeing is no, no and no. I should be aware by now that their is no convincing you - so I won't bother. But I'd point out that their is a reason that nobody agrees with the outlandish opinions you come up with in these posts. And now it looks like we can add Dooku being more powerful than the Chosen One to that pile. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 Oh, my bad. But I'd point out that Aurbere is correct. Kolar swayed after Sidious impaled him in the head. He says, "It doesn't hurt." The first part before the sway and the second part after. Kolar would only say this after suffering injury so we can only assume that he was impaled and then spoke, so the swaying was him indeed collapsing dead. Really I don't see how you can take the word 'swayed' and jump to the conclusion that he attempted to attack. No, he stood there, the blade shrank away, fell from his hand after his sway, then he collapsed. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 OK Slowpoke, all I'm seeing is no, no and no. I should be aware by now that their is no convincing you - so I won't bother. But I'd point out that their is a reason that nobody agrees with the outlandish opinions you come up with in these posts. And now it looks like we can add Dooku being more powerful than the Chosen One to that pile. The Maul fight is a very good example to show Sidious would not kill people that quickly with good teamwork, and they aren't much stronger than the 3 masters. Read the RotS novel you will understand what was I saying, again, you didn't even read the novel of RotS, so you are missing a lot of points. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 I don't think he had to, I think he wanted to torment Maul. No matter how good Maul was, he couldn't save Savage from the likes of Sidious. If he wanted to torment Maul, he could just kill Savage in front of Maul without pushing him away. Even after Maul was pushed away, it took him a little while to kill Savage. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 The Maul fight is a very good example to show Sidious would not kill people that quickly with good teamwork, and they aren't much stronger than the 3 masters. Read the RotS novel you will understand what was I saying, again, you didn't even read the novel of RotS, so you are missing a lot of points.I assure you I've read the entire battle sequence, and it doesn't support your argument. The quite opposite in fact. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 No, he stood there, the blade shrank away, fell from his hand after his sway, then he collapsed....yah, that's what I said. He was impaled, he stood there, he swayed, he blade shrank away, he fell, he died. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 If he wanted to torment Maul, he could just kill Savage in front of Maul without pushing him away. Even after Maul was pushed away, it took him a little while to kill Savage. If you count 6-7 seconds as a little while -_- Come on dude, you can't tell me you think it'd take Sidious any time to kill Savage if he wanted to, he's completely susceptible to Lightning... And really, Sidious waited until Maul stood up to kill Savage... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 I assure you I've read the entire battle sequence, and it doesn't support your argument. The quite opposite in fact. Yes, Dooku lost due to Anakin and Obi Wan was able to form a good team to beat him in lightsaber duel. He had to use most of his Force power to knock Obi Wan out. Then he was able to use his taunt on Anakin, awake him from his berserk mode. But Sidious decided to intervene, told Anakin to control and use his anger as weapon. Dooku knew he was doomed. Without Obi Wan and Palpatine's help, Anakin would have lost to Dooku almost for sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 (edited) Yes, Dooku lost due to Anakin and Obi Wan was able to form a good team to beat him in lightsaber duel. He had to use most of his Force power to knock Obi Wan out. Then he was able to use his taunt on Anakin, awake him from his berserk mode. But Sidious decided to intervene, told Anakin to control and use his anger as weapon. Dooku knew he was doomed. Without Obi Wan and Palpatine's help, Anakin would have lost to Dooku almost for sure.So Anakin reached his full potential and killed Dooku. So Anakin was more powerful than him, which is why Dooku lost. Like I said. EDIT: I'm was actually referring to the other fight. But I have read this one as well, I seem to remember Dooku being crushed under the sheer weight of his blows. Also taking into account that Dooku was defeated by Anakin prior to this duel fair and square without any aid whatsoever. So in fact he probably would have one anyway. Also noting that Anakin always uses his anger in his duels, he needed no encouragement. Edited September 5, 2013 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 If you count 6-7 seconds as a little while -_- Come on dude, you can't tell me you think it'd take Sidious any time to kill Savage if he wanted to, he's completely susceptible to Lightning... And really, Sidious waited until Maul stood up to kill Savage... A few seconds is enough for a group of masters to help their teammates. Sure Palpatine would easily kill most of the Jedi/Sith in a few secs, but if others give help it's a different story. Lightning would also take a while to kill someone like him, and it would let Palpatine become defenseless against Maul, we can see in the end of RotJ, he couldn't do anything when Vader grabbed him. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 and Kenobi was an Ataru master by knighthood. Source? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 So Anakin reached his full potential and killed Dooku. So Anakin was more powerful than him, which is why Dooku lost. Like I said. After Dooku spent most of his Force Power on Obi Wan, he was pretty much out of energy after he took care of Obi Wan, and it was Palpatine who helped him to control his power. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 After Dooku spent most of his Force Power on Obi Wan, he was pretty much out of energy after he took care of Obi Wan, and it was Palpatine who helped him to control his power.That only emphasises the fact that Dooku was less powerful, if his energy was expended so fighting a defensive duelist and Force gripping him then Dooku certainly is not as powerful as Anakin. THE CHOSEN ONE. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Save the Dooku talk for another time, friends. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Source? That came out wrong No source, but it was noted he Abandoned Ataru after Qui-Gons death (shortly after) and then picked up Soresu. If was also noted he spent his time perfecting Soresu and not Ataru, and was a master of both by the time he became a Jedi Master and sat on the council... It was more deductions than source, but it was supposed to sound like: Kenobi was practically a Knight by this stage, and we know that he finished mastery of Ataru sometime in early Knighthood, so he was at least "Advanced" in his knowledge by the duel with Maul. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 That only emphasises the fact that Dooku was less powerful, if his energy was expended so fighting a defensive duelist and Force gripping him then Dooku certainly is not as powerful as Anakin. THE CHOSEN ONE. He was fighting Anakin and Obi Wan at the same time, so he had to use strong power to quickly knock Obi Wan out before Anakin's blow came. Dooku was weaker on strength and raw power, but he was better on technique and experience, the Naboo fight is a good example, he was able to use his Force Technique to turn the table against Anakin. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Slowpokeking Posted September 5, 2013 Author Share Posted September 5, 2013 That came out wrong No source, but it was noted he Abandoned Ataru after Qui-Gons death (shortly after) and then picked up Soresu. If was also noted he spent his time perfecting Soresu and not Ataru, and was a master of both by the time he became a Jedi Master and sat on the council... It was more deductions than source, but it was supposed to sound like: Kenobi was practically a Knight by this stage, and we know that he finished mastery of Ataru sometime in early Knighthood, so he was at least "Advanced" in his knowledge by the duel with Maul. He was still using Ataru until his defeat against Dooku, Dooku didn't know he changed to Soresu in the beginning of RotS. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Save the Dooku talk for another time, friends. *Hint* Like the battle zone? *Hint* Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 He was still using Ataru until his defeat against Dooku, Dooku didn't know he changed to Soresu in the beginning of RotS. Not exactly. He abandoned it as his Main fighting style, and I'm pretty sure he only Incorporated certain moves from Ataru in that duel, more like using both, but I could be wrong (I've been known to be, many times, in the past ) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 *Hint* Like the battle zone? *Hint* "Yeppers" Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 Not exactly. He abandoned it as his Main fighting style, and I'm pretty sure he only Incorporated certain moves from Ataru in that duel, more like using both, but I could be wrong (I've been known to be, many times, in the past ) He was using Ataru, as Dooku was planning on using one of his patented "Ataru user insta-kill" moves, but Kenobi blocked with Soresu. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 That came out wrong No source, but it was noted he Abandoned Ataru after Qui-Gons death (shortly after) and then picked up Soresu. If was also noted he spent his time perfecting Soresu and not Ataru, and was a master of both by the time he became a Jedi Master and sat on the council... It was more deductions than source, but it was supposed to sound like: Kenobi was practically a Knight by this stage, and we know that he finished mastery of Ataru sometime in early Knighthood, so he was at least "Advanced" in his knowledge by the duel with Maul. Agreed on the last part. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 He was fighting Anakin and Obi Wan at the same time, so he had to use strong power to quickly knock Obi Wan out before Anakin's blow came. Dooku was weaker on strength and raw power, but he was better on technique and experience, the Naboo fight is a good example, he was able to use his Force Technique to turn the table against Anakin.Regardless if Dooku was indeed more powerful than Anakin, he would not have tired. Dooku may possess greater technique and experience however this is outweighed I'm afraid by Anakin's raw power. Anakin has a great deal of technique and experience as well, he is one of the greatest masters of Djem So and one of the greatest lightsaber duelists in the Order, on top of this he has engaged in several lightsaber duels and throughout the Clone Wars has refined and improved his technique through battle experience. Combined with raw power he simply surpasses Dooku. Understand that the whole purpose of the duel was to assess Anakin's abilities in comparison to Dooku, Anakin came out on top and proved himself worthy of being Sidious' apprentice. The Naboo fight is a clear example of this, Anakin simply overwhelmed Dooku through a combination of raw power and skill, the only reason Dooku was able to survive is because in choking him Anakin let his guard down and Dooku capitalized on this. He did not get so lucky on the Invisible Hand and as such was killed. Regardless we are losing sight of the original purpose of this argument, that unlike with Dooku vs Anakin and Kenobi, Sidious is not surpassed in anyway by his opponents. With Windu he is an equal match, but the rest are considerably inferior to his abilities, and as such with teamwork they would not have fared nearly as well as Anakin and Kenobi who were far closer (and in the case of Anakin - greater) to Dooku's abilities. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 "Yeppers" Haha Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted September 5, 2013 Share Posted September 5, 2013 He was using Ataru, as Dooku was planning on using one of his patented "Ataru user insta-kill" moves, but Kenobi blocked with Soresu. Damn, been so long since I read those books... However, it's pretty obvious why he was using it... You don't wear someone like Dooku out, it can't be done, you can't just defend his shots and hope he makes a stupid mistake... Was probably Kenobis attempt at ending it quickly, doesn't mean Soresu wasn't his main fighting style... Because it was definitely stated he was horrified when Qui-Gon died (as evidenced by his Vader style NOOOOOOOOOO, and books) And switched to Soresu fearing Ataru had a pathetic defence. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts