WAJWOZ Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 They are not really nerfing Hybrid, if you take a look at the numbers I ran I am getting around the same DPS in hybrid I got before. They BUFFED AP/tactics, and that is primarily what you are seeing in there. Which is good, and what was needed. Nerfing/breaking hybrid would just further gimp the class and I think that is why they didn't do anything to really affect that. (yes they lowered the damage on gut... so I guess that is a minor nerf, but with the boost to other things, it was definitely a buff overall.) Ok we'll they have added to the usual 2/22/22 hybrid that most people use or the 8/22/16 hybrid by reducing ammo costs. HOWEVER the 2/22/22 hybrid is made up of around 45% pulse cannon and 50% Ion Pulse,High Impact Bolt and Plasma cell the other 5% or maybe a bit more is the rest of skills. So they have given us 30% extra critical damage on pulse cannon in havoc training. This is good however this boost can only be accessed by sacrificing the 30% critical bonus to High Impact Bolt, Ion Pulse and Plasma Cell which collectively make up a more damage than Pulse Cannon. In conclusion using the hybrid will effectively be the same as before with just less damage from Gut, Incendiary Round and Pulse cannon with a boost of cheaper skills which may allow you to use them more often making up for the damage you have lost. ( Especially Incendiary round as it was hard to use this consistently before as it murder your ammo) That said if you enjoy tactics or AP which I personally don't because I use Commando pvp set bonus which grants 15% extra high impact bolt crit chance which is very nice for the hybrid or AS or Pyro but useless for tactics or AP and I find the spec particularly boring to play you dps will see a increase which is nice. With the patch notes even though they were not exactly amazing for AS or pyro it's nice to see that bioware actually realise Vg and Pt is underpowered and are trying to change that. They are only patch notes can all change before release. Cubism Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlosBC Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Ok we'll they have added to the usual 2/22/22 hybrid that most people use or the 8/22/16 hybrid by reducing ammo costs. HOWEVER the 2/22/22 hybrid is made up of around 45% pulse cannon and 50% Ion Pulse,High Impact Bolt and Plasma cell the other 5% or maybe a bit more is the rest of skills. So they have given us 30% extra critical damage on pulse cannon in havoc training. This is good however this boost can only be accessed by sacrificing the 30% critical bonus to High Impact Bolt, Ion Pulse and Plasma Cell which collectively make up a more damage than Pulse Cannon. In conclusion using the hybrid will effectively be the same as before with just less damage from Gut, Incendiary Round and Pulse cannon with a boost of cheaper skills which may allow you to use them more often making up for the damage you have lost. ( Especially Incendiary round as it was hard to use this consistently before as it murder your ammo) That said if you enjoy tactics or AP which I personally don't because I use Commando pvp set bonus which grants 15% extra high impact bolt crit chance which is very nice for the hybrid or AS or Pyro but useless for tactics or AP and I find the spec particularly boring to play you dps will see a increase which is nice. With the patch notes even though they were not exactly amazing for AS or pyro it's nice to see that bioware actually realise Vg and Pt is underpowered and are trying to change that. They are only patch notes can all change before release. Cubism Pulse cannon/flamethrower is more like 20-25% of damage (single target) in the 2/22/22 spec, maybe a touch higher in 8/22/16. The skills buffed by the surge increase in assault/pyro make up 50-55% of our DPS. 2/22/22 or 8/22/16 will remain the best hybrid specs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
WAJWOZ Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 Pulse cannon/flamethrower is more like 20-25% of damage (single target) in the 2/22/22 spec, maybe a touch higher in 8/22/16. The skills buffed by the surge increase in assault/pyro make up 50-55% of our DPS. 2/22/22 or 8/22/16 will remain the best hybrid specs. Yeah that's what I was getting at the extra 30% crit to StockStrike, pulse cannon and gut is less of a gain than the 30% crit to ion pulse high impact pulse ,plasma cell and incendiary round. So 2/22/22 or 8/22/16 will still stand unless there is aoe fight where 30% crit pulse cannon maybe viable but not any other time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
CrazyOldMystic Posted August 19, 2013 Share Posted August 19, 2013 They are not really nerfing Hybrid, if you take a look at the numbers I ran I am getting around the same DPS in hybrid I got before. They BUFFED AP/tactics, and that is primarily what you are seeing in there. Which is good, and what was needed. Nerfing/breaking hybrid would just further gimp the class and I think that is why they didn't do anything to really affect that. (yes they lowered the damage on gut... so I guess that is a minor nerf, but with the boost to other things, it was definitely a buff overall.) All the nerfs you are seeing is primarily hitting assault/pyro. Why they are killing assault/pyro further is beyond me... it's basically kicking the spec in the balls even though its legs got cut off at the knees in 2.0. I would hold off judgement on the other class balance. I highly expect them to release other changes, 2.4 isn't for a while, and what I am hoping they realize our class needs some of the most work so they are giving us a head start on it. Given that they have specifically mentioned the problems with assassins/shadows but we saw no changes to helping out their "squishiness" I expect we will see more changes in the next build they push to the PTS. I understand what your saying maybe it is too early to judge, just seemed a little odd to me. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Pyka Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Perhaps I'm just ignorant but I don't see anything but more nerfs to this class. And its a shame that they have gutted it like they have. I just got to the point where I've come to accept 2/22/22 and the fact that I cant burn down any class solo anymore now this.... So all you guys that are saying this is a buff patch for vanguard dps, spell it out so simply that a caveman can understand it would ya? Because I don't see it. /puts Vanguard toon on the shelf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
OlosBC Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 Perhaps I'm just ignorant but I don't see anything but more nerfs to this class. And its a shame that they have gutted it like they have. I just got to the point where I've come to accept 2/22/22 and the fact that I cant burn down any class solo anymore now this.... So all you guys that are saying this is a buff patch for vanguard dps, spell it out so simply that a caveman can understand it would ya? Because I don't see it. /puts Vanguard toon on the shelf. It's a buff for full tactics spec. I don't think anyone is saying it's a buff for assault or hybrid. Not much of a nerf for either though, but maybe a bit of a QoL nerf. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
KeyboardNinja Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 It's a buff for full tactics spec. I don't think anyone is saying it's a buff for assault or hybrid. Not much of a nerf for either though, but maybe a bit of a QoL nerf. This. The best tactics parses I've seen on live are in the high 2.6k range. Someone has already gotten a 2.8k on the PTS. For a spec that's as AoE-heavy as it is, that's a pretty strong showing. Hybrid is definitely getting a slight nerf, since it doesn't have access to the high-tier tactics talents which compensate for the nerf to Gut or the high-tier Assault talents which compensate for the nerf to IR. Whether hybrid remains ahead of full tactics remains to be seen, but at least the gap will be closer. Assault doesn't seem to be getting any better in terms of sustained damage, which really sucks, but its burst is getting buffed, which might make it at least playable in PvP. That's a buff, to be sure. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Chickensevil Posted August 20, 2013 Share Posted August 20, 2013 This. The best tactics parses I've seen on live are in the high 2.6k range. Someone has already gotten a 2.8k on the PTS. For a spec that's as AoE-heavy as it is, that's a pretty strong showing. Hybrid is definitely getting a slight nerf, since it doesn't have access to the high-tier tactics talents which compensate for the nerf to Gut or the high-tier Assault talents which compensate for the nerf to IR. Whether hybrid remains ahead of full tactics remains to be seen, but at least the gap will be closer. Assault doesn't seem to be getting any better in terms of sustained damage, which really sucks, but its burst is getting buffed, which might make it at least playable in PvP. That's a buff, to be sure. Yeah that was my parse, and I will specify again, that was WITHOUT a stim or adrenal and still no 75 gear... so the number would be much higher if those things were changed. Given the same scenario on live I hit about 2600 on tactics, so that is a fair assessment, a buff by about 200 dps from one to the other should be much more of a difference when you add in stims/adrenals/better gear. I am hitting about the same numbers on hybrid from live to the pts (at least with the 2/22/22 spec) so I wouldn't say there was really any change there. Same with the numbers on assault between live and the PTS. most of the changes being made were mostly QoL buffs or hits more than anything, rather than pure DPS changes with these two spec's. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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