Jtrop Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 First off, I would like to say that I could be missing scenes. I need you guys to fill me in if I am wrong. Looking back it seemed to me that Darth Vader killed more Imperials than rebels. The war was started and the Imperials are lead by The Emperor, not Darth Vader. We first see him choking a rebel officer as a threat, but DV does not kill the officer. Later on, he chokes and kills at least 2 of his own officers(and if they are talking to DV they would have to be high ranks.) . If you look at the destruction of Alderaan, easily the worst crime of the empire, the idea was started by the Emperor, the command was given by Grand Moff Tarkin, and the weapon was fired by various technicians/pilots. All DV did was make the princess watch. Finally in ROTJ, DV watches as the hero of the rebels being kill and not only does DV save the rebel he kills the Imperial (his side) leader. My argument is only for Epi. IV-VI or while DV is in the suit, because in episode III after Anakin gets the title "Darth Vader" he invades the Jedi temple (but that is against the republic not the rebels). I guess you could look at this as a way of saying there is good in everyone or redemption. I would like to hear your opinion, what does this mean, is DV a rebel hero, or did I miss something. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
FlashDeShiro Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 hence y it is called Return of the JEDI the whole story ark is of vaders rise ep 1-3 and redemption 4-6 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSquirrel Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 (edited) First off, I would like to say that I could be missing scenes. I need you guys to fill me in if I am wrong. Looking back it seemed to me that Darth Vader killed more Imperials than rebels. The war was started and the Imperials are lead by The Emperor, not Darth Vader. We first see him choking a rebel officer as a threat, but DV does not kill the officer. Later on, he chokes and kills at least 2 of his own officers(and if they are talking to DV they would have to be high ranks.) . If you look at the destruction of Alderaan, easily the worst crime of the empire, the idea was started by the Emperor, the command was given by Grand Moff Tarkin, and the weapon was fired by various technicians/pilots. All DV did was make the princess watch. Finally in ROTJ, DV watches as the hero of the rebels being kill and not only does DV save the rebel he kills the Imperial (his side) leader. My argument is only for Epi. IV-VI or while DV is in the suit, because in episode III after Anakin gets the title "Darth Vader" he invades the Jedi temple (but that is against the republic not the rebels). I guess you could look at this as a way of saying there is good in everyone or redemption. I would like to hear your opinion, what does this mean, is DV a rebel hero, or did I miss something. He's a leader and is thus responsible for the actions of those under his command. Remember in episode V when he orders the attack on Hoth in which we presume hundreds or even thousands die? And we know he joined the assault and that he was a powerful Sith so who's to say he didn't kill a hundred rebels with his bare hands while Han and Leia ran for the Falcon? The thing is often in the movies he is surrounded by other Imperials and they repeatedly fail in his orders to kill rebels so he kills them. But as it is a movie we don't get the in between time. Essentially, he could have a cargo hold of captured rebels that he practices force-choke on. Unless you look at EU material (which paints him as a much bloodier Sith) you just don't know. Edited August 4, 2013 by StarSquirrel Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jtrop Posted August 4, 2013 Author Share Posted August 4, 2013 hence y it is called Return of the JEDI the whole story ark is of vaders rise ep 1-3 and redemption 4-6 I never realized that. The Jedi that returns is Anakin. My mind is blown. Also I am just referencing what is on screen. Hoth is a good example of him being bad. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
StarSquirrel Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 I never realized that. The Jedi that returns is Anakin. My mind is blown. Also I am just referencing what is on screen. Hoth is a good example of him being bad. Well we kinda get the sense he's bad from all the choking, threats, implied atrocities, the black suit/mask/cape getup and evil music so Lucas must never have felt the need to have him killing armies of rebels to establish his character as evil. So, yeah... it was more because there was no need for it than anything else. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexDougherty Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 First off, I would like to say that I could be missing scenes. I need you guys to fill me in if I am wrong. Looking back it seemed to me that Darth Vader killed more Imperials than rebels. The war was started and the Imperials are lead by The Emperor, not Darth Vader. We first see him choking a rebel officer as a threat, but DV does not kill the officer. Later on, he chokes and kills at least 2 of his own officers(and if they are talking to DV they would have to be high ranks.) . Outside the films he kills a lot of rebels, he leads assualts on them, kills them if they get too close, and plans the war against them. Having said that, he does also kill a lot of Imperials, just nowhere near as many as he kills rebels. If you look at the destruction of Alderaan, easily the worst crime of the empire, the idea was started by the Emperor, the command was given by Grand Moff Tarkin, and the weapon was fired by various technicians/pilots. All DV did was make the princess watch. Finally in ROTJ, DV watches as the hero of the rebels being kill and not only does DV save the rebel he kills the Imperial (his side) leader. You are being a bit too literal here, he leads troops into battle, therefore any deaths this causes are on his hands, he doesn't have to literaly cut down the rebels personally. In this case, all the troops on Leia's ship are his, the pilots he shoots down are his, the troops on Hoth are his, as are the Rebels killed on Endor. Not to mention all the rebels he kills between films. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalonVII Posted August 4, 2013 Share Posted August 4, 2013 All I have to say to all of this, read the book "Rise of Darth Vader". Then you can tell me if he's evil or not. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexDougherty Posted August 5, 2013 Share Posted August 5, 2013 All I have to say to all of this, read the book "Rise of Darth Vader". Then you can tell me if he's evil or not. I'm going to go out on a limb here, and say he was evil. He wasn't the messiah, but he was a very naughty boy. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
cool-dude Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 A sith who loves is no sith. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted August 10, 2013 Share Posted August 10, 2013 Speaking of Jacka**'s being called heroes, why does the Intro for Episode 3 say there are heroes on both sides of the war? o.0 Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RixoFutu Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 X years of hunting Jedies, killing and torturing beings ... on other side one minute of redempútion in the finale ... well, i guess he can't be more evil Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlexDougherty Posted August 11, 2013 Share Posted August 11, 2013 Speaking of Jacka**'s being called heroes, why does the Intro for Episode 3 say there are heroes on both sides of the war? o.0 Hero = someone who does brave things against the enemy, both sides have enemies, it's just a matter of perspective. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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