Reworking Pyro

[Rylorn]

Pyro was a fundamentally flawed class, but I think there are ways to fix it. I just want to talk about some things I have felt while I was Pyro. Keep in mind I am talking mainly pvp, but I feel strongly that a lot of the same things that made us fun to play in PvP, will reflect in the whole game.

 

Strengths pre 2.0

 

Pyro was a great single target damage class, we relied heavily on our damage, without other strengths to speak of. People talk about burst, but it was sustained too. We used a lot of heat, but with combat downtime in certain pvp situations, that worked well. Over time, the usability on many of our skills had been neglected because we were not in a place where we could receive buffs and not become ridiculously overpowered.

 

Specifically, Incendiary missile is too costly, Flamethrower is a waste of heat in most situations due to the prevalence of knockbacks. We were turned into a close range class and not given a gap closer. Pull can be a gap closer, it isn't convenient for that since it is on a longer cooldown and requires coordination with other people to not screw up warriors. Death from above was nerfed by about half it's damage and the radius much smaller.

 

We relied very heavily on Flame Burst in conjunction with Combustible Gas Cylinder, CGC was nerfed in a major way. At first glance, CGC changes could be seen as a trade off(less damage, longer duration.) However, in real pvp PT Pyro was so reliant on spamming Flame Burst that the extra time is usually wasted, and the damage nerf is all we see.

 

My whole point is, our strength was taken away, and now we are just garbage. We don't survive better, move better, doe aoe or single target damage, we are just gimped in every way. Please, give us something we are good at and our damage back.

 

Reintroducing Complexity without bloating the # of skills

 

The class is too simple with regards to our main damaging attacks. The bread and butter of attacks is Flame Burst, Thermal Detonator, Railshot, and Incendiary missile. For a PT, skills like Missile Blast, Unload, Flame Sweep don't have an important enough role to play in adding depth to the spec.

 

- Missile blast is currently a cap interrupter in pvp, and a utility skill instead of a main attack against multiple targets.

- Unload is weak damage and doesn't serve a purpose for Pyro beyond a very marginal increase over auto attack for far ranged targets. This skill really needs some sort of debuff to make it a primary attack again. Healing debuff? Big time slow? Something.(just ideas.)

- Flame sweep would be ok, except that CGC is so bad right now that it isn't a factor for aoe damage.(Assuming players are talented into making it always proc CGC)

 

In summary, make the variety of skills we use more interesting and make this class more difficult to play. Pyro had a stigma for being easy to play, and there was some truth in that.

 

Time for a gap closer

 

We didn't always need one. Things have changed, and in the current environment we do need one. Agents have rolls now, warriors have multiple leaps in popular specs, other Bounty Hunters have resistance to being pulled, agents can't be pulled most of the time. Pull is NOT an adequate gap closer because of the options all classes have to avoid being pulled.

 

I recommend Jet Charge goes to all PTs. This isn't a simple fix for anyone who is ready to jump on the bandwagon. Tanks would need a new active skill, one skill in general might need to become passive or be reworked to avoid ability bloat. Low level PTs need this worked into their progression. I know there are even more things I haven't thought of that make this complicated, but I really think this is vital.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Rylorn

[Rylorn]

Thermal Detonator

 

This suffers from the damage over time aspect that CGC received. Long duration dots are not useful because they are removed by Operative healers. In general, I think almost all PTs feel like this skill doesn't pack any 'punch' anymore. It is to the point that if I spec all the way up the tree, I debate not taking this talent to replace it with something on a much lower tier. It is almost not worth taking entirely.

 

I think we need to make it what it used to be again. Long range, all burst damage, and replace explosive dart again. Explosive dart is another one of those 'meh' skills that I feel does almost nothing. Having both skills causes ability bloat, and I think merging the two could make room for Jet Charge, at least as Pyro is concerned.

[Rylorn]

Incendiary Missile

 

Currently, this skill is very expensive at 22 heat. The high heat cost incentivizes focus on a single player. I think that is a good thing. Part of the theme behind fire is that if "fire" builds up, it becomes overwhelming; and in the past, Pyro has excelled at single target damage with a few key aoe cooldowns and I think everyone that remembers having fun with Pyro would want to restore that balance.

 

Here is one problem, the high heat cost of this skill doesn't match how much the individual skill does. The skill feels very comparable to corrosive dart, except that corrosive dart is much cheaper. In order to keep the playstyle of Pyro focused on single target, I would rather keep the cost high, but adjust the effect so that it is actually worth the cost.

 

One major problem that Pyros are facing is how easy it is to remove their dots. If a Lethality sniper loses their dots, it isn't the same exactly because of how much incendiary missile costs and we are putting our lives on the line in close range to apply ours .I really would like to see some sort of protection via talents to help this, as well as an increased effect to make this dot appropriately effective for the cost.

 

(sorry for posting this everywhere, but I decided I should consolidate everything into my thread and will continue to use this to post everything)

Edited August 2, 2013 by Rylorn

[Rylorn]

Talent: Pyro Shield

 

Pyro Shield

When activated, your Energy Shield has a [50 / 100]% chance to ignite in a blaze, lashing attackers for 180 elemental damage while it remains active. This effect cannot occur more than once each second.

 

This is a weak talent for us right now. The main problem is the internal cooldown on how often it can proc or the damage it does, either change could make this something worthwhile. This talent does not provide a deterrent for anyone that wants to get a kill on a PT, the damage just isn't threatening enough.

 

I will say, this is a talent I would be very excited for if it was powerful enough to make someone think twice about attacking me. Also, the effect is very obvious, and doesn't match the fear factor that someone feels when they see it. Keep the effect, add the fear in my opinion. Metrics about how Pyro's spec may reveal whether I am correct about this.

[Rylorn]

Underlying statistical issue

 

Critical rating - This stat is not desirable for the most part among ranked pvpers. All the math points to critical rating being a weak stat, that loses out to power and surge. Changing this isn't easy, as players everywhere will be unhappy about needing to regear. However, during an expansion please consider this buffing crit.

 

I always felt that PTs could really utilize crit well, so I think this is of particular importance to us.

Edited August 2, 2013 by Rylorn

[Rylorn]

Kolto Overload

 

This skill doesn't scale well when taking damage from multiple players. I think the idea is very cool, I was impressed when I first used the skill and thought it gave us something unique when I tested it out in duels. This is a good idea, just needs something to make it useful in more than 1v1.

 

Energy shield

 

This is a good skill overall, I think once the other parts of the class are improved, this will be just fine.

 

Stealth Scan

 

Great skill, a great counter to Operative healers that many people think are overpowered. I think if Powertechs were used more in ranked, it would help counter operatives.

[Rylorn]

Shoulder Cannon

 

I think we were overlooked when this ability was created. Other 2.0 skills targeted needs and shoulder cannon doesn't do much of anything. We have a slight damage increase, but because we are under performing already, it doesn't seem like the damage matters. The ability to interrupt is decent, but our interrupting and node guarding ability doesn't compare to other ACs, therefore feels lackluster.

 

Great new skills I wish we had something as useful as:

- Rolls for agents, Ops are now the fastest class in the game

- Force barrier, long cooldown, but is a 2nd stun break and makes them invulnerable.

- Electronet - amazing cooldown to help finishing off targets, prevents players from escaping with their own cooldowns

 

I wouldn't consider this a top need, if our normal damage was equal to snipers and marauders, I think I would want to reevaluate how I felt about the damage on shoulder cannon.

[Rylorn]

Explosive Dart

 

Fizzles on target death- This is a something I have been concerned about for a while. If the target dies, the attack goes to waste. I think the skill should trigger instantly if the target dies. Explosive dart isn't very powerful and I think this is one change that is needed.

[Rylorn]

Idea to make our dots and Thermal Detonator useful

 

Our damage potential is all in our damage over time(dot) attacks now. I think Thermal detonator needs a buff and I would like to merge the two ideas. Thermal detonator should prevent dots from being removed until it explodes. This would give a unique mechanic to Pyro, help with how easy our dots are too remove, and give us a much needed buff, and not require huge development time.

[Brunner_Venda]

Kolto Overload

 

This skill doesn't scale well when taking damage from multiple players. I think the idea is very cool, I was impressed when I first used the skill and thought it gave us something unique when I tested it out in duels. This is a good idea, just needs something to make it useful in more than 1v1.

 

Energy shield

 

This is a good skill overall, I think once the other parts of the class are improved, this will be just fine.

 

Stealth Scan

 

Great skill, a great counter to Operative healers that many people think are overpowered. I think if Powertechs were used more in ranked, it would help counter operatives.

 

1. Kolto Overload leaves you in execute range. It sucks. Hit KO, Mara hits dispatch. Congrats. You just did jack and ****. You're dead.

 

Fix: let the skill heal us to 40-50%. Out of execute range.

 

2. The CD is too long on shield, ever since pyro lost energy rebounder. It was our only defensive CD in our tree.

 

Fix: Give the pyro spec energy rebounder back. Come up with an original defense for AP to replace it.

 

3. Stealth Scan is useful? Lol. Two points in 'infrared sensors' and we get what? Two percent defense and a shorter SS CD? Not to mention that stealth scan creates a big huge stupid 'HEY STEALTHER! DON'T STEP HERE!!' Circle - that most stealth classes just avoid. Unless they are stupid or careless.

 

 

Fix: Only show the scan circle to friendly units. Let infrared sensors increase the size of the detection circle. Double the amount of passive detection for two points of infrared. I expect a reasonable shot at detection for the cost.

[Rylorn]

Stealth scan is actually useful if used in a certain way. You would basically want to use it immediately after a stealther uses an in combat stealth and they are revealed almost always if done fast enough. As for Kolto Overload, I think that is a good observation, that burst below 30% is crazy, and maybe the skill needs to take us above execute range.