Kaggath Heats - Ascending Empire vs Alliance of Worlds

[LadyKulvax]

Oh great so Luke, Leia and Wedge would pretty much be just as likely to do this, probably with republic cruisers since they are the more common ships in the fleet and the most worthless, the moment your troops start doing it... I have a feeling they will to doing the same philosophy, wow talk about funny, space battles turning into crashing the most worthless portions of your fleet into your enemies big guns and then having everyone limping around screaming WTH you crazy people.

 

Actually Luke, Leia nor Wedge ever used this strategy, you realise those three and their part of the Rebel Alliance was actually small, there were entire sections of the alliance fighting entirely different wars at the same time throughout the galaxy.

 

Garm waged his own private war against the Empire.

 

Mon Mothma however oversaw the entirety of the Rebel Alliance herself, she would know of all it's campaigns and tactics.

[tunewalker]

You'd think having the company as a subsidiary would allow them to build all of their products. Kinda defies logic. I mean, the Techno Union has droidekas. Why not other CCN products?

 

But that doesn't matter. The Scorponek is just one of many heavy droid units. The Techno Union can bring the much cheaper B3s to battle. Or the Tri-droid and Octuppara droids (these droids can destroy tanks in a single shot).

 

yes they can abosolutely but we have also seen these droids taken out by missels and heavy weapons as well, and you wont start with a lot of them will take time to build and the massive numbers advantage on ground forces would still be a looming issue, as I have already stated your starting numbers 10k troops 100 jedi........ My starting troops 160,000-640,000 you have a very large disparity to make up here.

[LadyKulvax]

yes they can abosolutely but we have also seen these droids taken out by missels and heavy weapons as well, and you wont start with a lot of them will take time to build and the massive numbers advantage on ground forces would still be a looming issue, as I have already stated your starting numbers 10k troops 100 jedi........ My starting troops 160,000-640,000 you have a very large disparity to make up here.

 

Since when did specops forces and bothan spies count in the hundreds of thousands?

[Aurbere]

yes they can abosolutely but we have also seen these droids taken out by missels and heavy weapons as well, and you wont start with a lot of them will take time to build and the massive numbers advantage on ground forces would still be a looming issue, as I have already stated your starting numbers 10k troops 100 jedi........ My starting troops 160,000-640,000 you have a very large disparity to make up here.

 

That is a lot of ground troops. When did the rebels get so many soldiers?

 

Well, that's why the Techno Union can make tin can battle droids faster than you can replenish your losses.

Edited July 27, 2013 by Aurbere

[tunewalker]

Actually Luke, Leia nor Wedge ever used this strategy, you realise those three and their part of the Rebel Alliance was actually small, there were entire sections of the alliance fighting entirely different wars at the same time throughout the galaxy.

 

Garm waged his own private war against the Empire.

 

Mon Mothma however oversaw the entirety of the Rebel Alliance herself, she would know of all it's campaigns and tactics.

 

Leia was a primary leader as well, and this tactic was used by Thrawn which Wedge and Leia would both know. Garm waged his own private war in which he never did this that I am aware, and Mothma would know all the rebel tactics..... but I have the rebels (remember the airforces of your ground force is your pilots not the original pilots of your fleet) they would obviously know this.... they did it, they may not start with this but the moment you do it once they will be all over you with it going we can play that game to.

[Aurbere]

Leia was a primary leader as well, and this tactic was used by Thrawn which Wedge and Leia would both know. Garm waged his own private war in which he never did this that I am aware, and Mothma would know all the rebel tactics..... but I have the rebels (remember the airforces of your ground force is your pilots not the original pilots of your fleet) they would obviously know this.... they did it, they may not start with this but the moment you do it once they will be all over you with it going we can play that game to.

 

The issue with you playing that game is that the AE can replenish its forces much faster than the AoW can.

[tunewalker]

That is a lot of ground troops. When did the rebels get so many soldiers?

 

Well, that's why the Techno Union can make tin can battle droids faster than you can replenish your losses.

 

As I explained before the rebels had 2-4 Sector forces which were made up of 2-4 Cores which were made up of 40,000 troops each, the Grand army of the republic and the imperial army had 20 of these sector forces. putting their numbers somewhere between 1.6-3.2 million which as we know from attack of the clones this is spot on.

 

And maybe, kind of a big Maybe but its a maybe and if you did your effectiveness advantage goes out the window.

[LadyKulvax]

Leia was a primary leader as well, and this tactic was used by Thrawn which Wedge and Leia would both know. Garm waged his own private war in which he never did this that I am aware, and Mothma would know all the rebel tactics..... but I have the rebels (remember the airforces of your ground force is your pilots not the original pilots of your fleet) they would obviously know this.... they did it, they may not start with this but the moment you do it once they will be all over you with it going we can play that game to.

 

Please point out to me how Leia was anything other than just a princess and a leader of her own section of the alliance, Mon Mothma was the de-facto leader of the entire thing.

 

Oh and Garm used exactly this type of attack with Corvettes, ironically he had five of the dreadnoughts out of the same Katana fleet we are using.

 

There were many sections of the rebel alliance using exactly these tactics but not once has Leia's section used it beyond small starfighters dive bombing into ships when they realise they are going down anyway.

 

Kenobi has witnessed this tactic first hand, Garm used any means necessary to beat the Empire including suicide tactics, he is stated in numerous sourcebooks like the Essential Guide to Warfare and the Guide to Characters as being that desperate.

[Aurbere]

And maybe, kind of a big Maybe but its a maybe and if you did your effectiveness advantage goes out the window.

 

Balmorra can produce the soldiers and heavy support droids simultaneously if need be. It is a major factory designed to produce huge amounts of vehicles (it produced a large quantity of the Empire's AT-STs)

[tunewalker]

Please point out to me how Leia was anything other than just a princess and a leader of her own section of the alliance, Mon Mothma was the de-facto leader of the entire thing.

 

Oh and Garm used exactly this type of attack with Corvettes, ironically he had five of the dreadnoughts out of the same Katana fleet we are using.

 

There were many sections of the rebel alliance using exactly these tactics but not once has Leia's section used it beyond small starfighters dive bombing into ships when they realise they are going down anyway.

 

Kenobi has witnessed this tactic first hand, Garm used any means necessary to beat the Empire including suicide tactics, he is stated in numerous sourcebooks like the Essential Guide to Warfare and the Guide to Characters as being that desperate.

 

I was just saying she was a leader of her particular faction, that's all I said, again they have seen it from thrawn both Leia and Wedge know of it, and I have the rebels the actual people who did it, they know how to do it to.

 

And to awnser Aurbere's thing I am not so sure, you can rebuild faster but you wont have much left to repair, while as I have already stated I would still, again not sure this is the best strat I heard but it is by no means a sure fire, nor is it by any means something the leaders or going to lead with out the gate, and my troops are just as likely to do it later on. That's all I am saying.... of course assuming the whole conference thing doesn't happen.

[tunewalker]

Balmorra can produce the soldiers and heavy support droids simultaneously if need be. It is a major factory designed to produce huge amounts of vehicles (it produced a large quantity of the Empire's AT-STs)

 

I understand this, just as I can build vehicles and train soldiers at the same time, I get that I gave you that infact again a few posts back I gave you 1,050 of the heavier droids and 10,000 of the battle droids with not a single troop added to my forces at all and assumed that I had a massive tactical disadvantage (which its slight but not massive) and still with all that which would take you a couple months to build its not enough for me to even need conscription to stand up against.

Edited July 27, 2013 by tunewalker

[Aurbere]

I was just saying she was a leader of her particular faction, that's all I said, again they have seen it from thrawn both Leia and Wedge know of it, and I have the rebels the actual people who did it, they know how to do it to.

 

But the fact remains that you won't be able to recuperate your losses as quickly as the AE can. That is an inescapable fact. Every battle is going to hurt the AoW in the long run.

 

And to awnser Aurbere's thing I am not so sure, you can rebuild faster but you wont have much left to repair, while as I have already stated I would still, again not sure this is the best strat I heard but it is by no means a sure fire, nor is it by any means something the leaders or going to lead with out the gate, and my troops are just as likely to do it later on. That's all I am saying.... of course assuming the whole conference thing doesn't happen.

 

The fact is that Balmorra can produce an innumerable amount of forces (given time), while you have to recruit and train any replacements. Like I said above, every battle will hurt the AoW in the long run.

[Aurbere]

I understand this, just as I can build vehicles and train soldiers at the same time, I get that I gave you that infact again a few posts back I gave you 1,050 of the heavier droids and 10,000 of the battle droids with not a single troop added to my forces at all and assumed that I had a massive tactical disadvantage (which its slight but not massive) and still with all that which would take you a couple months to build its not enough for me to even need conscription to stand up against.

 

It's a real shame that none of my tacticians faced such long odds before. Oh wait! They did. Being so vastly outnumbered is a regular occurrence for Kenobi, Plo Koon, and Garm. Not to mention that Garm himself is intimately familiar with rebel tactics, meaning that any battle that he participates in gives him a major tactical advantage.

[tunewalker]

But the fact remains that you won't be able to recuperate your losses as quickly as the AE can. That is an inescapable fact. Every battle is going to hurt the AoW in the long run.

 

 

 

The fact is that Balmorra can produce an innumerable amount of forces (given time), while you have to recruit and train any replacements. Like I said above, every battle will hurt the AoW in the long run.

 

Unless the AoW goes on the offensive and takes a planet which they can do, hitting Balmora early on before the factories can produce kills your ground troop replenishment, destroying the ship yards at just one planet ends your ability to produce ships, I have enough at the start that my forces will likely try to hold you with equal numbers at the 2 locations talked about being attacked and sending the rest to Kuat and Corellia to wreck you. Like I said a good strategy but not a perfect one, Wedge and Leia have both seen it before and developed a some what defense against it.

[Warren-Stride]

That awkward moment when this thread is active for three days and gets the same amount of views as the STAR WARS Discussion Guidelines have in almost two years.

[LadyKulvax]

Again I thought the big thing here was that only tactics actually used by the people involved would be considered.

 

And even if your force decides to do a similar thing, which none of them ever have, the tactic is very quick, it's an automated hyperspace jump that sends the vessel hurtling into enemy ships, my tactic is to launch most of them simultaneously right into Rendili and Brentaal.

 

Then my actual forces jump in and clean up the left overs that 178 large suicide ships have left over, crippling a lot of the most powerful ships in your fleets, then you have next to no ships viable to defeat Death Squadron.

 

Anyway I thought the point of presenting scenarios was that they were final, you dont just counter every point by saying 'oh well I can do this instead' it isn't an argument you counter, it's a finalised plan.

 

That is the scenario I presented, as three of the people have actually used and/or sanctioned those tactics and your characters have only witnessed it, I would say I am the only one who would be able to be allowed to present it.

[tunewalker]

It's a real shame that none of my tacticians faced such long odds before. Oh wait! They did. Being so vastly outnumbered is a regular occurrence for Kenobi, Plo Koon, and Garm. Not to mention that Garm himself is intimately familiar with rebel tactics, meaning that any battle that he participates in gives him a major tactical advantage.

 

Oh its not like my tactitians ever faced long odds before.... oh wait guess what same friken boat and I gave you the tactical advantage having huge losses in your favor I can link it back to you if you want. You aren't fighting the CiS, the people you are fighting are much better tactically and the throw away soldiers (the numbers) are vastly superior as well as the numbers disparity being vastly larger ..... why am I even saying this I already said it like 4 times I think this is turned into a circle. I just don't like it when I get words put in my mouth since I never said they never faced it they just didn't face it with an opponent that used similar tactics to them.

[tunewalker]

Again I thought the big thing here was that only tactics actually used by the people involved would be considered.

 

And even if your force decides to do a similar thing, which none of them ever have, the tactic is very quick, it's an automated hyperspace jump that sends the vessel hurtling into enemy ships, my tactic is to launch most of them simultaneously right into Rendili and Brentaal.

 

Then my actual forces jump in and clean up the left overs that 178 large suicide ships have left over, crippling a lot of the most powerful ships in your fleets, then you have next to no ships viable to defeat Death Squadron.

 

Anyway I thought the point of presenting scenarios was that they were final, you dont just counter every point by saying 'oh well I can do this instead' it isn't an argument you counter, it's a finalised plan.

 

That is the scenario I presented, as three of the people have actually used and/or sanctioned those tactics and your characters have only witnessed it, I would say I am the only one who would be able to be allowed to present it.

 

Now that wont work at all as I have already said the scout ships will know you are coming intradictors will be set up for when you arrive you will have to ram while not in hyper space hyperspace ramming isn't happening.

 

 

I wasn't saying do this instead either, I was saying how the people would react to a new piece of information that was NEVER brought up in all of this debating.

Edited July 27, 2013 by tunewalker

[Aurbere]

Unless the AoW goes on the offensive and takes a planet which they can do, hitting Balmora early on before the factories can produce kills your ground troop replenishment, destroying the ship yards at just one planet ends your ability to produce ships, I have enough at the start that my forces will likely try to hold you with equal numbers at the 2 locations talked about being attacked and sending the rest to Kuat and Corellia to wreck you. Like I said a good strategy but not a perfect one, Wedge and Leia have both seen it before and developed a some what defense against it.

 

Except Balmorra isn't on a major hyperspace lane, which means you can't send a large fleet without it taking forever to get there, or worse.

 

Attacking Balmorra really isn't a viable strategy due to the amount of time it would take to get there and the limited number of ships you could send. By then the factories will be underway and producing tons of battle droids.

 

Not only that, but you leave one of your worlds with a small fleet, easy prey for an assault from one of my fleets.

[LadyKulvax]

Now that wont work at all as I have already said the scout ships will know you are coming intradictors will be set up for when you arrive you will have to ram while not in hyper space hyperspace ramming isn't happening.

 

Could you please point me to which ships of yours have interdictor capabilities? I can't think of any at the moment.

 

And even so, it isn't the Hyperspace sending them into your ships, it's the vessel with engines at full speed that will.

[tunewalker]

Except Balmorra isn't on a major hyperspace lane, which means you can't send a large fleet without it taking forever to get there, or worse.

 

Attacking Balmorra really isn't a viable strategy due to the amount of time it would take to get there and the limited number of ships you could send. By then the factories will be underway and producing tons of battle droids.

 

Not only that, but you leave one of your worlds with a small fleet, easy prey for an assault from one of my fleets.

 

I think this is where we need beni's travel time charts.... you aren't producing a massive amount of droids in mere hours or a day, it would take months you wouldn't need to be on a massive one for me to send a small number of ships to and land massive amount of troops on to sabotage and destroy factories (again rebel specialty here)

[Aurbere]

Oh its not like my tactitians ever faced long odds before.... oh wait guess what same friken boat and I gave you the tactical advantage having huge losses in your favor I can link it back to you if you want. You aren't fighting the CiS, the people you are fighting are much better tactically and the throw away soldiers (the numbers) are vastly superior as well as the numbers disparity being vastly larger ..... why am I even saying this I already said it like 4 times I think this is turned into a circle. I just don't like it when I get words put in my mouth since I never said they never faced it they just didn't face it with an opponent that used similar tactics to them.

 

Getting a bit hostile aren't we?

 

And don't even say that your rebels have similar or greater numbers to the CIS. A single fleet of CIS ships carries more droids than your entire ground force. Like I said, Kenobi and Koon faced these odds regularly.

 

And the tactical disparity between droids and rebels is nullified by Garm's knowledge of rebel tactics.

[LadyKulvax]

I wasn't saying do this instead either, I was saying how the people would react to a new piece of information that was NEVER brought up in all of this debating.

 

Except the people you brought up whom have seen this tactic did not use it in reply, which was when Thrawn used said tactic, Leia and Luke did not use that tactic in return.

[tunewalker]

Could you please point me to which ships of yours have interdictor capabilities? I can't think of any at the moment.

 

And even so, it isn't the Hyperspace sending them into your ships, it's the vessel with engines at full speed that will.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Hapan_Battle_Dragon

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Agave-class_picket_ship

just off the top of my head.

 

Of course the engines at full speed may do so but not before a lot of them are torn apart by heavy fire and if you are intending to send in the big ships immediately after wards they would be in for the same nasty treat of heavy fire as the first group since seding in smaller forces at a time makes it easier to destroy most of them before the next ones come in

[Aurbere]

I think this is where we need beni's travel time charts.... you aren't producing a massive amount of droids in mere hours or a day, it would take months you wouldn't need to be on a massive one for me to send a small number of ships to and land massive amount of troops on to sabotage and destroy factories (again rebel specialty here)

 

Like I said, attacking Balmorra simply isn't your best option. The hyperspace lane to Balmorra won't allow you to send a large force, thus you will be sending a token force.

 

And you, again, severely underestimate Balmorra's production capabilities and the speed at which droids can be produced.

 

Based upon the number of ships you can send, the subsequent ground force will be very small. By the time your forces arrive, the factories will be in full swing, producing droids like no tomorrow.