Please make PvE actually PvE-only

[Test_Eagle]

Just a reminder to people in this thread:

 

This is a thread about being auto-flagged for PVP by AoE or baiting in a PVE zone on a PVE server.

 

This is not a thread about Gree Dailies. This is not a thread about doing missions in a PVP area.

If you want to complain about the Gree dailies PVP there are other threads to do it.

If you want to complain about PVP zones, make your own thread.

 

Gree dailies are mentioned because it has a PVE zone next to a PVP zone, which can lead to more cases of involuntary auto-flagging, but remember this is not a thread about the Gree event.

 

For people on both sides of the discussion, please refrain from going off on a tangent and ranting and raving about issues irrelevant to the discussion. It doesn't help your argument, it makes you look silly and most of all distracts from the discussion.

[wishingwell]

Did you bug report the event to Bioware? You know.. so they could review it to see if a companion mechanic is broken or working improperly? All you have to do is describe what happened, where, and at what time.. and they can review it from there (they have excellent analytics and log analysis capabilities.

 

I ask because regardless of a fixed_off_flag or not... this could remain an issue.....because something might be broken.

 

Bug report things when they appear borked.

 

It's also possible you accidentally tab targeted the players companion too. I'm not saying you did... I'm just saying that can happen if you are just cycling tab targeting and not paying attention to what you are doing.

 

Yes, I made a bug report about it. Just like I've bug reported all the other things I mentioned which seem to relate to companions and PVP-flagging.

 

As for tab targeting, I was doing only healing, so that was definitely not the case.

[Lunafox]

I agree strongly, that PVE should be PVE only except where you can choose to be ported to WZ. We should not be subjected to it in the maps in any situation.

 

That's why the designations on the server, so you know what to expect. PVP is for people who always want to fight and be flagged and be open to ganking etc. PVE is for people who simply want to play against the game provided elements and work with others towards goals, not fight with them.

 

No where does it say on the server list choices PVE (with the potential of being thrown into PVP against your will, because you should be situationally aware.)

 

I played on a PVP server for months, and didn't enjoy it. I rerolled onto a PVE server for a reason, because I like more relaxed play, and the freedom to do my quests without being bothered by anyone.

 

I am a subscriber, have been since before launch, and I pay for this service. For those who want to PVP and gank, and be all around idiots, and try to bait unwilling people into their shenanigans are free to roll PVP. LEAVE PVE-ers alone to enjoy the game how that choose and PAY FOR.

[Test_Eagle]

I've tried to sum up the discussion so far, dividing the discussion into the two camps:

 

1. Make manual flagging the only way to be flagged when in PVE zones:-

This means no flagging from accidental AoE (healing and attacking), no companion flagging, no flagging from accidentally clicking on a enemy player when they jump in front of objectives to get you to click on them, and lose the ability to attack enemies and/or heal friendlies who are flagged for PVP until the manual flag is toggled.

 

2. Keep the current system as is:-

L2play. Allow the griefers to continue to grief, because they are not hurting anyone. Investigate mobs to see if stealth players are present before using AoE. Change instances if you see someone is flagged. Be aware that griefers will grief you and adjust your gameplay accordingly. If you're a healer, do not use AoE heals in an area that flagged friendlies are present, do not heal flagged players even if you are grouped with them.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Test_Eagle
changed wording

[Stoofa]

I've tried to sum up the discussion so far, dividing the discussion into the two camps:

 

1. Make manual flagging the only way to be flagged when in PVE zones:-

This means no flagging from accidental AoE (healing and attacking), no companion flagging, no flagging from accidentally clicking on a enemy player when they jump in front of objectives to get you to click on them, and lose the ability to attack enemies and/or heal friendlies who are flagged for PVP until the manual flag is toggled.

 

2. Keep the current system as is:-

L2play. Allow the griefers to continue to grief, because they are not hurting anyone. Investigate mobs to see if stealth players are present before using AoE. Change instances if you see someone is flagged. Be aware that griefers will grief you and adjust your gameplay accordingly. If you're a healer, do not use AoE heals in an area that flagged friendlies are present, do not heal flagged players even if you are grouped with them.

 

If you want the first system in place then players should not be able to complete any of the missions designated PvP unless they first switch their flag on.

Can't have it both ways. You want care bear protection, fine. But you cannot then march in and complete PvP missions with no risk.

[Test_Eagle]

If you want the first system in place then players should not be able to complete any of the missions designated PvP unless they first switch their flag on.

Can't have it both ways. You want care bear protection, fine. But you cannot then march in and complete PvP missions with no risk.

 

If players go into PVP zones they should be flagged. This is not a discussion about PVP zones or PVP missions.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Test_Eagle
wording

[Exly]

In regards to this post:

 

Well, in fairness.. what most are asking for is a "hard_OFF" switch for PvP. When the switch is set. nothing they can do can flag them for PvP.

 

Of course, this is not as easy as it seems on the surface, because then the devs have to install a whole set of new hard_locks into mechanics (like ... you cannot heal or buff a PvP flagged friendly faction player when the switch is set, etc. etc. etc. ) What some want, would indeed cause a lot of complications in the existing mechanics of the game (no matter how much some try to trivialize it) ..... most of them potential for exploits.

 

Personally, I don't want to see the devs spending time and energy fixing a minor annoyance that is very situational and completely manageable by the player by just paying and attention and not ding things that will flag yourself. AND we all know that to fix one thing.. they will break three other things and get a whole unstable snowball rolling through a patch or two.

 

I suggest that the best response to be posted so far is:

 

Sorry, but unless you are under NDA and privy to the code for the game.. you don't know this.. you just think this.

Edited July 25, 2013 by Exly

[Lunafox]

If you want the first system in place then players should not be able to complete any of the missions designated PvP unless they first switch their flag on.

Can't have it both ways. You want care bear protection, fine. But you cannot then march in and complete PvP missions with no risk.

 

I avoid PVP missions. I have no issue with not doing them, but I do have to wonder, why are they putting pvp missions on pve servers? PVE is PVE. We don't want to fight others. No means No. If you want to pvp, port out to a warzone.

 

If they're going to have hard designations like PVP and PVE, then on the PVE servers, the missions should have a pve equivalent. Say on the pvp servers, they're pvp, and on the pve servers, we merely kill x number of things and earn our drop or whatever. I don't know why this is so hard to grasp.

 

And why do pvpers feel the need to inflict pvp on pve players. I think because a good many pvpers are bored sadists, that's why. And I pay my sub and play on PVE to avoid those people tyvm.

[Test_Eagle]

I avoid PVP missions. I have no issue with not doing them, but I do have to wonder, why are they putting pvp missions on pve servers? PVE is PVE. We don't want to fight others. No means No. If you want to pvp, port out to a warzone.

 

If they're going to have hard designations like PVP and PVE, then on the PVE servers, the missions should have a pve equivalent. Say on the pvp servers, they're pvp, and on the pve servers, we merely kill x number of things and earn our drop or whatever. I don't know why this is so hard to grasp.

 

And why do pvpers feel the need to inflict pvp on pve players. I think because a good many pvpers are bored sadists, that's why. And I pay my sub and play on PVE to avoid those people tyvm.

 

PVP missions are on PVE servers for those who like to participate in both aspects of the game. As with PVE missions being on PVP servers.

 

But again, I must point out, this is not a thread about PVP missions. This is a thread about being auto-flagged for PVP by AoE or baiting in a PVE zone on a PVE server.

[Lugosi]

I avoid PVP missions. I have no issue with not doing them, but I do have to wonder, why are they putting pvp missions on pve servers? PVE is PVE. We don't want to fight others. No means No. If you want to pvp, port out to a warzone.

 

If they're going to have hard designations like PVP and PVE, then on the PVE servers, the missions should have a pve equivalent. Say on the pvp servers, they're pvp, and on the pve servers, we merely kill x number of things and earn our drop or whatever. I don't know why this is so hard to grasp.

 

And why do pvpers feel the need to inflict pvp on pve players. I think because a good many pvpers are bored sadists, that's why. And I pay my sub and play on PVE to avoid those people tyvm.

 

Good for you. News flash, you aren't the only person on the server paying a sub. I'm paying a sub to PvE on a PvE server with the occasional world PvP in designated PvP areas tyvm. Many other people do this too, I don't know why this is so hard to grasp.

 

If you don't want to do PvP quests in a PvP area, then don't, it's not rocket science. There is no reason to ruin this option for everyone else because you are special and your 15$ is worth more than mine.

[CommanderKeeva]

Make manual flagging the only way to be flagged when in PVE zones:-

This means no flagging from accidental AoE (healing and attacking), no companion flagging, no flagging from accidentally clicking on a enemy player when they jump in front of objectives to get you to click on them, and lose the ability to attack enemies and/or heal friendlies who are flagged for PVP until the manual flag is toggled.

 

This is actually a pretty good solution - for PvE zones (everything but opposite faction outposts, Outlaw's Den and the Ilum contested area). Said areas would still auto-flag you for PvP at the end of the 10-second countdown. There is no need to change quests or areas, those people who want OWPvP on PvE servers (and decide to /flag themselves for it) can do so at their pleasure.

 

-Trying to attack a PvP flagged person (or his companion) should give an error message that the action cannot be performed unless the player manually toggles the PvP flag (that is either right click on the portrait or types /flag). You get a similar error message when you try to attack friendly targets. I see no reason why they cannot add an error message to flagged targets.

 

-Trying to heal or buff or protect a PvP flagged person (or his companion) in any way (such as using Force Barrier, Restoration, Revive, Reanimation, Guard, Guardian Leap etc.) should give a similar error message that the action cannot be performed unless the player manually toggles the PvP flag.

 

-Placing an AoE skill in range of a flagged person (or his companion) should automatically ignore him (and his companion). I think this is already the case.

 

-Placing an AoE heal, buff or protective skill (such as Ballistic Shield or Kolto Bomb) in range of a PvP flagged person (or his companion) should automatically ignore him (and his companion). I think this is already the case.

 

Two simple changes to make life easier for everyone. Then there won't be accidental flagging or griefing, everyone will be able to play PvE and PvP in peace and we'll be able to settle this matter forever.

 

EDIT: Someone here posted a great idea earlier. The PvP flag could actually be a debuff. Skills check for that debuff and if it is present, the skill won't activate until the user has the debuff (flag) too. Simple solution, but great idea!

Edited July 26, 2013 by CommanderKeeva

[Andryah]

What? I know this because I've tried to heal and buff someone that was in the middle of a conversation, which is identifiable by the TV screen icon over their head while they are in said conversations, and received an error message across my screen telling me they are not eligible for said healing or buff at that time.

 

I specifically acknowledged this point, so please stop with the faux indignation.

I said it would need tweaking to be applied to the flagging system but that kind of system is already in game.

 

Presumption, based on speculation. Is that more clear for you?

 

I'm pretty sure that the PvP flag system and the cut-scene flag systems are contained inside entirely different sections of the zillion lines of code for the game. Why would I think that? Because they are in no way related (other then by your convoluted and speculative idea of "tweaking" one to make it apply to another).

 

FACT: neither of us know what would be required to make your demand happen inside the game code. SO.. I'll stop speculating if you stop speculating.

Don't try to change the facts or what I said to fit your argument. You can cut that crap out right now.

 

Unsubstantiated accusation used as a personal attack. Please stop. I will not be bullied by you, so please just put the testosterone away.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Andryah

[Andryah]

2. Keep the current system as is:-

L2play. Allow the griefers to continue to grief, because they are not hurting anyone. Investigate mobs to see if stealth players are present before using AoE. Change instances if you see someone is flagged. Be aware that griefers will grief you and adjust your gameplay accordingly. If you're a healer, do not use AoE heals in an area that flagged friendlies are present, do not heal flagged players even if you are grouped with them.

 

1) Actually, it would be more accurate to state: /report griefers and let Bioware sort them out. That's what you do with griefers in MMOs.

 

2) No need to investigate mobs before tossing AoE. Just don't toss AoE for the limited time you are PvEing in a PvP area. If you are really a PvEer who does not want to PvP.. you will do your mission and leave the area... so there is no need for you to pretend you want to camp the zone and NEED to be immune from PvP so you can toss AoE around like candy.

 

3) Regardless if you are flagged for PvP or not... healing or buffing a flagged player should flag you in MMOs. If it does not, then players will exploit the mechanics by having one team PvPing and another larger team piling Heals and buffs on them with impunity behind the safety of the PvP flag unset. So I'm sorry .. but MMOs flag you for buffing and healing flagged PvPers... and they should. You would have to completely remove PvP from the server if you want a free pass on this, or it would be exploited 7 ways to infinity.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Andryah

[CommanderKeeva]

Regardless if you are flagged for PvP or not... healing or buffing a flagged player should flag you in MMOs. If it does not, then players will exploit the mechanics by having one team PvPing and another larger team piling Heals and buffs on them with impunity behind the safety of the PvP flag unset. So I'm sorry .. but MMOs flag you for buffing and healing flagged PvPers... and they should. You would have to completely remove PvP from the server if you want a free pass on this, or it would be exploited 7 ways to infinity.

 

Actually, you can just get an error message that the skill cannot be used because you're not flagged for PvP. Every time you try to interact with a flagged person in any way (be that friendly or hostile), you just can't use the skill until you manually activate your PvP flag. (AoE attacks, heals and buffs ignore flagged friendlies and hostiles like they already do.)

 

It's very simple, like when you try to attack a friendly target, nothing happens. They could make it so that nothing happens when you try to attack an enemy player or heal or buff a friendly player that is flagged for PvP.

 

As others have already stated, they can make the PvP flag an actual debuff. Then the system checks to see if you have the debuff. If you do, your skills work. If you don't, then they don't. Very simple and probably easy to accomplish.

Edited July 26, 2013 by CommanderKeeva

[Hyfy]

Actually, you can just get an error message that the skill cannot be used because you're not flagged for PvP. Every time you try to interact with a flagged person in any way (be that friendly or hostile), you just can't use the skill until you manually activate your PvP flag. (AoE attacks, heals and buffs ignore flagged friendlies and hostiles like they already do.)

 

It's very simple, when you try to attack a friendly target, nothing happens. They could make it so that nothing happens when you try to attack an enemy player or heal or buff a friendly player.

 

As others have already stated, they can make the PvP flag an actual debuff. Then the system checks to see if you have the debuff. If you do, your skills work. If you don't, then they don't. Very simple and probably easy to accomplish.

 

Which is what I was trying to explain to him/her but be prepared to have your words twisted, called into question, and your intentions called to task inspire of being clear and concise. I even used an example of that very mechanic that is already in the game that could be used as a blueprint and I get told that I must be violating an NDA and loads of other obtuse tripe. But I'm with you on your idea, nearly identical to what I was suggesting.

[Hyfy]

Suggest you read it again...

 

Your fix would solve your problem, but it would also cause more exploits, so you are merely shifting your problem to someone else.

 

I still think the best fix is to stop all damage/splash damage to Flagged Players and Companions by unflagged players and then for bioware CS to actually read reported players reports and actually investigate and discipline when call for players that use these types of exploits. I am however against punishing all PvP players or making a over cumbersome system that removes some of the fun in the game.

 

I publicly apologize to Hyfy if you took my sarcasm as a personal attack, that was not my intentions and I am very sorry that I wrote something that could be interpreted that way.

 

I'm curious though, what more exploits would the system I suggested cause? I ask be cause my suggestion closes the stealth flag problem in the OP, and also closes the issue of people standing back healing a friendly so they can abuse or grief others. The removal of the flag I conceded, though I never implied otherwise before, could be exactly as is now. The biggest issues are the auto flagging and has been since the start of the argument.

[Test_Eagle]

1) Actually, it would be more accurate to state: /report griefers and let Bioware sort them out. That's what you do with griefers in MMOs.

 

2) No need to investigate mobs before tossing AoE. Just don't toss AoE for the limited time you are PvEing in a PvP area. If you are really a PvEer who does not want to PvP.. you will do your mission and leave the area... so there is no need for you to pretend you want to camp the zone and NEED to be immune from PvP so you can toss AoE around like candy.

 

3) Regardless if you are flagged for PvP or not... healing or buffing a flagged player should flag you in MMOs. If it does not, then players will exploit the mechanics by having one team PvPing and another larger team piling Heals and buffs on them with impunity behind the safety of the PvP flag unset. So I'm sorry .. but MMOs flag you for buffing and healing flagged PvPers... and they should. You would have to completely remove PvP from the server if you want a free pass on this, or it would be exploited 7 ways to infinity.

 

/report griefers in this situation is a reactive solution to one that can be solved with a preventative solution. Why create extra work for those who have to investigate this when you can stop this activity before it starts? What benefit is there having a reactive solution over a preventative solution?

 

2) You say PVEing in a PVP area. This is not about PVE in a PVP area. If you enter a PVP area you should be flagged. It won't matter if you AoE in a PVP area because you should be already flagged.

 

3) Under the described solution you would not be able to heal or buff a flagged player if you have not manually flagged yourself for PVP. So there would be no opportunity to exploit.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Test_Eagle
changed a word

[Andryah]

Wait a minute, you agree the system is in the game and in the same post say that I am speculating that the system is in the game. Which is it, will you make up your mind. And bullied? I'm not the one trying to do the bullying but keep telling yourself that to feel better about yourself and the actions you are engaging in and saying others are trying to do. You are more manic than my ex wife.

 

Now as to the rest of your rather obtuse response, no where did I say that the two systems are tied together. I never even tried to imply that. I did however see a system that is currently in the game and suggested (not demanded as ou would try to paint it. Again to try and change my words to fit your argument) that it is an in game mechanic that can be altered to be applied to the flagging system to address the issue presented by the OP, an issue that I think is much more wide spread than you would lead one to believe. One that while YOU think is a minor issue, many do not and find it an incredibly persistent and bigger issue. This isn't faux indignation, this is actual indignation not only at the problem but your condescending dismissal and constant attempt to make anyone who disagrees with you out as some sort of bully. Now if you'd like to continue without distorting others words then I would be happy to continue the debate, if not than I have no problem dismissing you as nothing mor than a sycophant and agitator.

 

Your military police tactics are wasted on me. Find a softer target IMO.

[Andryah]

You say PVEing in a PVP area. This is not about PVE in a PVP area. If you enter a PVP area you should be flagged. It won't matter if you AoE in a PVP area because you should be already flagged.

 

Certain limited sections of this game are designed and deployed by Bioware as dual faction.

 

Why exactly do you believe they did this? it takes more work and effort on their part.. so they must have a reason, right?

 

To encourage and enable PvP in the open world.

 

Anywhere there is dual faction access to a zone in this game.. that zone is PvP. On a PvE server in this game it is PvP by mutual consent.

 

Being inattentive and getting yourself tricked into a PvP flag is not PvP by mutual consent. It's a mistake of judgment on your part. You got tricked into it. learn and move forward. The tricks are easy to avoid if you care to avoid them. If the player perpetually tries to trick you.. then /report them for attempted griefing/harrassment on a PvE server and move on with your day.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Andryah

[Andryah]

/report griefers in this situation is a reactive solution to one that can be solved with a preventative solution. Why create extra work for those who have to investigate this when you can stop this activity before it starts? What benefit is there having a reactive solution over a preventative solution?

 

Because it's not that pervasive of a problem. No need to take a sledge hammer to a tack.

 

Because the problem, when it does arise is most often handled directly by the community. The PvPers on a PvE server are generally always happy to come out and hand out spankings to these d-bags. All you have to do is spread the word a bit and stand back and watch them get crushed. By the way.. you know why most of this happens right?...... to entice some folks to come out and play. It's just a d-bag way to go about it is all.

 

Because the players have complete control over the PvP flag already, just not blindly and without attention and forethought. You cannot be forced into PvP on a PvE server. You can however be tricked into it if you are not paying attention. If it's a problem to you, pay a bit closer attention and don't get tricked. In fact.. don't get tricked, AND invite the PvPers on your server to come on out and frost these d-bags cake. In fact, grab some popcorn and sit back and enjoy the carnage inflicted on the D-bags.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Andryah

[Test_Eagle]

Certain limited sections of this game are designed and deployed by Bioware as dual faction.

 

Why exactly do you believe they did this? it takes more work and effort on their part.. so they must have a reason, right?

 

To encourage and enable PvP in the open world.

 

Anywhere there dual faction access to a zone in this game.. that zone is PvP. On a PvE server in this game it is PvE by mutual consent.

 

Being inattentive and getting yourself tricked into a PvP flag is not by mutual consent. It's a mistake of judgment on your part. You got tricked.. learn and move forward. If the player perpetually tries to trick you.. then /report them for attempted griefing on a PvE server and move on with your day.

 

The description of a PVE realm reads like this:

 

"This is the standard environment where players compete against computer-controlled opponents. However, if you want a chance to fight other players (PVP), fights must be consensual and in designated areas of the world."

 

The PVP designated areas are quite clearly shown. There are big red words on the screen saying you are entering said area.

 

Is there an ability to participate in open world PVP outside of these designated areas? Absolutely.

 

Is every zone that I'm able to see a player from the opposite faction a PVP zone? No, or we would be flagged upon entering.

[Andryah]

The description of a PVE realm reads like this:

 

"This is the standard environment where players compete against computer-controlled opponents. However, if you want a chance to fight other players (PVP), fights must be consensual and in designated areas of the world."

 

The PVP designated areas are quite clearly shown. There are big red words on the screen saying you are entering said area.

 

Is there an ability to participate in open world PVP outside of these designated areas? Absolutely.

 

Is every zone that I'm able to see a player from the opposite faction a PVP zone? No, or we would be flagged upon entering.

 

Please re-read what I wrote. I agree with the definition you quoted.. so I'm not sure what point you are trying to make.

 

There are dual faction zones. They are for PvP by consent between parties on a PvE server. It's by design and it's to encourage PvP in the open world. On a PvE server.. it's by consent. On a PvP server, it is axiomatic.

 

So.. don't consent. And don't allow yourself to be tricked into consent. Simple as that.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Andryah

[Test_Eagle]

Because it's not that pervasive of a problem. No need to take a sledge hammer to a tack.

 

Because the problem, when it does arise is most often handled directly by the community. The PvPers on a PvE server are generally always happy to come out and hand out spankings to this d-bags. All you have to do is spread the word a bit and stand back and watch them get crushed. By the way.. you know why most of this happens right?...... to entice some folks to come out and play. It's just a d-bag way to go about it is all.

 

Because the players have complete control over the PvP flag already, just not blindly and without attention and forethought. You cannot be forced into PvP on a PvE server. You can however be tricked into it if you are not paying attention. If it's a problem to you, pay a bit closer attention and don't get tricked. In fact.. don't get tricked, AND invite the PvPers on your server to come on out and frost these d-bags cake. In fact, grab some popcorn and sit back and enjoy the carnage inflicted on the D-bags.

 

Its hardly a sledgehammer. If people want to PVP they still have the option to do so with a manual flag. And as has been shown in examples you can absolutely be forced into PVP. You called it being tricked, but it is still making someone PVP without consent, forcing them to take part in PVP.

[Andryah]

You called it being tricked, but it is still making someone PVP without consent, forcing them to take part in PVP.

 

You have to allow yourself to be tricked Test_Eagle. Nobody can force you to be tricked. It requires a mistake or lack of awareness on your part. So.. in dual faction zones... be aware, and don't make mistakes. And even if you are tricked or make a mistake on occasion.. you can refuse to engage, sit in safety and wait for your timer to lapse after 5 minutes.

 

Every PvE player applies the concept of situational awareness and not making mistakes every single day when they go out and PvE mobs. If they don't, they die and have to pick themselves up from taking a dirt nap. So I know this is not a foreign concept to you. It's just that an opposing faction player is more clever sometimes then the world mobs, BUT also more constrained in how they are able to engage you.... so.. you the player are never out of control unless you are simply oblivious to your surroundings and what is going on. Personally I don't accept that PvEers are oblivious to their surroundings and what is going on around them. If they are, then the PvE side of this game will park them at the med-center 7/24.

 

Honestly, last time I saw a trickster.. I called some friends and we handed them their keesters gift wrapped until they gave up and logged off. There was no need to /report them... the server community took care of the problem.

Edited July 26, 2013 by Andryah

[Test_Eagle]

You have to allow yourself to be tricked Test_Eagle. Nobody can force you to be tricked. It requires a mistake or lack of awareness on your part. So.. in dual faction zones... be aware, and don't make mistakes.

 

Every PvE player applies the concept of situational awareness and not making mistakes every single day when they go out and PvE mobs. If they don't, they dye and have to get up from taking a dirt nap. So I know this is not a foreign concept to you. It's just that an opposing faction players is more clever sometimes then the world mobs, and also more constrained in how they are able to engage you.

 

They can force you to PVP through trickery, this has been established from the very first post. Being tricked into PVP is not giving consent. People do not join PVE servers to engage in "PVP through trickery" unless they are the type of player who forces others into PVP.