Rage 2.0 spec?

[stephenalandavie]

I have a level 46 marauder and have always played Carnage in Pvp, and I love the spec. I am just wondering if anyone can give me any examples of the rage spec for pvp?. I have never played this spec in either PVE or PVP.

[iprice]

RAge is considered the PVP spec. you can leap while immobilized and aoe double damage smash auto crits for 6-10 k depending on gear of you and your enemies. Its more fluid you always have rage gives you free force screams an extra leap attack/10m attack. I always do better in pvp with rage vs carnage but carnage is still ok in pvp. Anni you have to be facing ****** healers to do really good with.

 

Rage rotation Force Leap>Force Crush>Force Scream>Battering Assault>SMASH>Obliterate repeat adding berserk instead of force crush when its up. If done right force crush and beserk alternate perfectly. And adding viscious slashes instead of rage builders when you have rage.

[stephenalandavie]

RAge is considered the PVP spec. you can leap while immobilized and aoe double damage smash auto crits for 6-10 k depending on gear of you and your enemies. Its more fluid you always have rage gives you free force screams an extra leap attack/10m attack. I always do better in pvp with rage vs carnage but carnage is still ok in pvp. Anni you have to be facing ****** healers to do really good with.

 

Rage rotation Force Leap>Force Crush>Force Scream>Battering Assault>SMASH>Obliterate repeat adding berserk instead of force crush when its up. If done right force crush and beserk alternate perfectly. And adding viscious slashes instead of rage builders when you have rage.

 

Thanks for the info, Do you have an example of a rage spec which is good for pvp? I don't trust noxxic lol

[Aluvi]

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100bZrMMZfMMkrGkRffz.3

 

That's what you want to go with at 55. The aoe damage reduction is essential later on, as you will be getting smashed as much as you are smashing. The aoe reduction is what lets you go toe to toe with the other smashes in the big aoe pile and still be healable, while other melee get mowed down. Otherwise, it's a fairly self explanatory build.

 

Although the Noxxic Rage PvP build is more commonly used, getting 3 points into Enraged Slash is, in my opinion, overkill. You should not ever be rage starved as a marauder in PvP. If you use the build I linked on a dummy, you may occasionally run low on Rage and need to use regular assault, however in actual PvP this will never happen, because you will always be generating some amount of rage from Cloak of Pain.

[HaemmernZeit]

http://www.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/marauder/9/?build=002100000000000000000000000000000320020000000000000000000000000001220221012202301121032003200100&ver=20

 

This is what I run and most of the other mara/sents I'm friends with run it as well. I think the cloak of carnage that aluvi recommends is garbage and most other mara/sents I've talked to agree. Aoe reduction is necessary and 3 points of enrages slash, while nice, is not worth losing the aoe reduction for.

[Maelael]

Aluvi's reasoning (and explanation of how Noxxic = bad) is sound. You do not need enraged slash in Rage spec. Ever.

 

I'm currently running:

 

http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#100bZRMMZdrRkrGkRffz.3

 

I have run Aluvi's build, and tried out a point in dual wield mastery, more accuracy, etc. You don't need accuracy for rage - I analyzed some records and I had ZERO misses except vs tanks, and even then misses were almost non existent. I feel that Force crit % is worthless spent points, however. I do use free force scream when it pops but I'd rather have the points in really...anything else.

 

I found that Cloak of Rage does make a difference especially vs Snipers (more of the duration increase than the damage increase) and I found like...zero difference in overall effectiveness with Dual Wield Mastery (1 or 3 points) so I just dumped it in the force choke slot for the lowered CD timing on it for interrupt.

[Aluvi]

The more points you can put into the accuracy talent, the less accuracy gear you need to hit 95% basic / 105% non basic. 2 points of accuracy talent plus two accuracy enhancements puts me at 94.9% accuracy. Thats as closer as I can get without going over or sacrificing other important talents. Malice is a filler point, no doubt about it, but force screen goes from hitting for very little, to hitting for 5-6k on crit. Extra crit chance on force also helps force crush, another ability that can crit for 4k on the last tick alone. If every tick crits it can be devastating, considering it is only one gcd. Force choke, and I believe rupture also benefit. Try doing a rupture, force crush, choke, into smash and force scream and tell me the extra crit is not useful. I stand by my build.

[Maelael]

The more points you can put into the accuracy talent, the less accuracy gear you need to hit 95% basic / 105% non basic. 2 points of accuracy talent plus two accuracy enhancements puts me at 94.9% accuracy. Thats as closer as I can get without going over or sacrificing other important talents. Malice is a filler point, no doubt about it, but force screen goes from hitting for very little, to hitting for 5-6k on crit. Extra crit chance on force also helps force crush, another ability that can crit for 4k on the last tick alone. If every tick crits it can be devastating, considering it is only one gcd. Force choke, and I believe rupture also benefit. Try doing a rupture, force crush, choke, into smash and force scream and tell me the extra crit is not useful. I stand by my build.

 

I really thought accuracy was a big deal until I got rid of all of my accuracy gear for surge, and only put in one point into that talent and went and lolsmashed it up for a few hours. Literally, zero misses unless it was a tank, and even then it was maybe 1/25 missed (I think it was actually better than that). I was shocked, as I was expecting to have to put some slots into accuracy and points into it.

 

-Combat is a different story, but I think fully spec'ed you still end up in the 95% neighborhood without it, so its like ugh.

 

Now, I can believe that I am finally lucky enough to have a streak of luck, and Im willing to parse again. I do have 4 accuracy enhancements I can swap in as well from screwing up my min maxing a few weeks back, I can see if there is a difference if I notice a bunch of misses.

 

Force Crush, Force Scream, Smash, Force Choke are the key useable force based (IE Malice and Willpower) abilities. Pretty sure none of the throws are force based.

 

I'd rather have the 4 seconds on cloak of pain vs a 4% crit chance on Crush, Scream, and Choke - at least with my style. Crush is more about stacks, slow, and some added damage for me, Scream is pure free rage damage, and choke is an interrupt or CC. More damage is always cool, but 4% chance vs better survivability due to the DR in Cloak of pain is more important to me. My main money makers in rage is leaps and smash, everything else is an interrupt, rage builder, fluff for stacks or to get the CD down on leap and smash, or CC/Defensive to me.

 

BUT, if I had like, an amazing perfect tank or two with me at all times, I could see not needing cloak of pain nearly ever. But since I pug a lot, and end up solo defending nodes vs 1-3 people because my teamates are kinda...yea...I'll take whatever DR I can get. 4% crit chance on 3 not spamable abilities doesn't seem worth the trade off to my style at least.

 

Edit: Also I mean to say, go ahead and stand by your build. Its not wrong per-se, were prolly not talking much variation between the two in terms of field viability at all even if Im wrong on the accuracy need.

Edited July 18, 2013 by Maelael

[Megatfx]

http://www.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/marauder/9/?build=002100000000000000000000000000000320020000000000000000000000000001220221012202301121032003200100&ver=20

 

This is what I run and most of the other mara/sents I'm friends with run it as well. I think the cloak of carnage that aluvi recommends is a terrible talent for this build and most other mara/sents I've talked to agree. Aoe reduction is necessary and 3 points of enrages slash, while nice, is not worth losing the aoe reduction for.

 

That is the exact spec i use to the talent, came up with that on my own. Sorry aluvian but i completely disagree with your spec choice. With the spec quoted you can go max power surge in every slot and have 94% accuracy and, Your rage management is easier and you are severely underestimating force choke if you dont have points in the talent reduction. I have nearly 91% surge with 800 bonus damage in nearly full partisan.

 

Rage is so broken i doubt it matters tbh. All you have to do is roll your face on the keyboard to be good at it. ( not targeting you aluvi just making a blanket statement.). Just be warned at the cantina it was stated that rage will be nerfed with the crit mechanic. Get used to carnage now bc bw has a tendency to overnerf specs.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Megatfx

[Maelael]

Just be warned at the cantina it was stated that rage will be nerfed with the crit mechanic. Get used to carnage now bc bw has a tendency to overnerf specs.

 

Which Cantina?

 

And of course, they say a lot of things at the Cantinas and don't deliver, but I'm genuinely curious.

 

I'll prolly play around with dumping cloak of carnage this weekend, as I seem to be mostly full of rage, save like once lately. Also, zero misses last night. Zero. Even vs tanks (Although there weren't many). Either I have the luck of a god, accuracy is broken, or the points and enhancements aren't needed.

 

Furthermore: If you're trying to solo a melee or ranged class, use Obfuscate for (bleep)'s sake, and quit wasting your defensives at the start until the opponent is out of CCs. I schooled this Mara 4x in a row in Rage while they were in Carnage - it wasn't even a gear thing, they were better geared. 4 times, they made the same mistakes 4 times in a row. So tired of solo guarding nodes and solo whacking people in opponent endzones...

Edited July 19, 2013 by Maelael

[Aluvi]

I guess I should clarify. I think the specs you guys are using are mainly PUG / normal WZ based. The spec that I am running is more for RWZ. I use force choke sparingly because it builds a very high amount of resolve, and in high level rated play, you want to get the most stun/cc out of your resolve that you can, which means intimidating roar, flashbangs, and other classes single target stuns. Also, when you choke someone, you effectively CC yourself. I guarantee that you are not doing anywhere near as much damage choking as you would be if you were just spamming Vicious Slash. Plus, choke does not lower the cooldown on Smash. Using choke is effectively ignoring 2 GCDs that could have reduced the smash cooldown.

 

Basically, in Ranked PvP with 2 good teams, people are either going to be resolve capped or stunned/cced. This is not to say that I do not choke people in Ranked - certainly I do, but it is not a big enough priority that I need to spec into it having a lower cooldown. The times that I choke would be if we have swapped a focus fire target, and it is say a merc or sorc, and they have either hydraulic overrides up or have just popped force speed. I will choke them to keep them within kill range of the rest of the melee and other dps - prevent them from running away. Or, of course, on a healer in the same situation, or to prevent a marauder from using Undying Rage / force cloak. Certainly it is useful, however I do not simply choke everyone that I can every time I can.

 

Malice vs Cloak of Rage is probably debatable. I know that in ranked, the difference between a crit and a non crit scream or force crush can be the difference between a kill or the target living. Also, marauders are one of the lowest priority targets for the other team to kill. Between Undying Rage and Force Camo, you should be dying the least amount compared to the rest of your team. In a normal WZ this will differ of course, because dumb dumbs focus whatever is in front of their face, which will be you, so I can see Cloak of Rage having some merit there.

 

As for the accuracy thing - All classes in SWTOR get 5% deflect, with both inqiusitor classes getting 10%. While 5% accuracy may not increase your damage dealt by a ton, it WILL help tremendously with your kills, which is what matters. When you miss 3 kills in one warzone because your Vicious Throw decides to miss a Sorc (and even with 5% accuracy, you will still miss 5% of the time due to the 10% deflection on SI), and one of those kills prevents your ranked team from capping a node, or picking up the huttball, or... you get my point, you will wish you had that accuracy. Not to mention, most tanks are also putting accuracy debuffs on you, and this is even more true in Ranked play.

 

If you are derp smashing noobs in normal warzones, I suppose you can probably get away with no accuracy and it might not matter. In Ranked, it matters.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Aluvi

[Maelael]

I guess I should clarify. I think the specs you guys are using are mainly PUG / normal WZ based. The spec that I am running is more for RWZ. I use force choke sparingly...

 

Malice vs Cloak of Rage is probably debatable. I know that in ranked, the difference between a crit and a non crit scream or force crush can be the difference between a kill or the target living. Also, marauders are one of the lowest priority targets for the other team to kill.

 

If you are derp smashing noobs in normal warzones, I suppose you can probably get away with no accuracy and it might not matter. In Ranked, it matters.

 

I think any use of force choke save 1v1, to buy time, or as an interrupt is kinda worthless, even with the Crit. It's so much time wasted.

 

I find it awful that the people you're facing are not putting down DDs killing your DDs and healers, even through AOEs, but I guess thats the culture of your server. I get hit...a lot, regardless of regs or ranked. Especially as the last man standing at a node. That 20% is a big deal to me, and it almost always lasts 25-30 seconds unless everyone is dead. However if the situation changed, regz or ranked (I do ranked about once a week for about 3-5 lately, Id love to do it more), and I found I was being mostly untouched like your situation - then yes, I'd go with malice. I'd find it unbelievable, but I'd totally do it. For now the extra time to ensure Cloak of Pain lasts is worth it to me.

 

I think I've got some ranked logs. I'll check for misses. Zero last night, even vs a full (8 man, they got queued together) premade rwz (Not the best, but not bad) team because the queues were crap last night (we got so hammered lol). I'm not seeing the misses. Statistically I should have some, but even in a 1500 dps match I had none. I'm almost thinking I'm reading the logs wrong.

 

But at the same time I can see a case for killing cloak of carnage for narrowed hatred anyways, I want to see if it really impacts my rage gain/need. Cause yea, I'd be pissed if I had a miss on a finisher like Vicious Throw and those 2 points of accuracy would have made it a hit.

 

And don't take this as criticism, take it as discussion. I'm enjoying it, I hope you are too - and its caused me to review accuracy to be sure, and validated a few things I'm already doing too.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Maelael

[Megatfx]

I started to type up a really long response, even separated each paragraph with quotations so I could refute each and every statement, but then I said to myself, "Who cares?"

 

In the end the differences between the two specs are so ridiculously minor that it's not even worth the energy.

 

In fact, as long as any player goes to the top in the Rage tree, then gets Frenzy on the Annihilation side, you can pretty much put points anywhere else you want and succeed at playing Rage. My Pyro PT was more difficult to play in 1.0 than Rage is today.

 

 

This is the only crucial point I'd like to make:

 

EDIT: In another note, I am going to put together another min/maxing guide though this one will be much simpler and easier. Go check combat logs next RWZ you're in. Every miss/deflect I get is on a Tank or someone who has popped a defensive cooldown. You can literally go full power/surge in every single slot and have 94% accuracy as Rage and miss no more than someone with 95% accuracy. In fact I noticed as Rage and Carnage my damage increased as I maxed surge out and got rid of all my accuracy enhancements. 94% Accuracy as Rage, 97% as Carnage in Ataru.

 

It's honestly more than enough.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Megatfx

[Maelael]

I started to type up a really long response, even separated each paragraph with quotations so I could refute each and every statement, but then I said to myself, "Who cares?"

 

In the end the differences between the two specs are so ridiculously minor that it's not even worth the energy.

 

In fact, as long as any player goes to the top in the Rage tree, then gets Frenzy on the Annihilation side, you can pretty much put points anywhere else you want and succeed at playing Rage. My Pyro PT was more difficult to play in 1.0 than Rage is today.

 

Who cares? Me. And others that don't comment or ask questions. When I first started this game all I did was read forum posts, learn a LOT, try out different people's suggestions, till I found what I liked on my Sorc. I ended up dumping the sorc cause I dislike it, but I learned to play it well from discussions like these.

 

It's not about refuting, it's about explaining your position. Dead serious - this discussion has made me re-evaluate cloak of carnage and Im going to dump it tonight and if Im not rage starved, keep it gone. I may even try out malice for a while too, see if I notice some good crits where they aren't right now.

 

But yea I agree its pretty minor and more about the field you're playing in and your personal playstyle. Which imho, and from raw experience in multiple games, finding what fits you makes you a better player and contributor, not necessarily copying ONE person. Difference in opinions should be welcomed.

 

Edit on your edit: Yea, Im taking into account in my "No Miss" checks when they pop Defensives (One of the Juggs I always come across, I swear, is like a botter or something, does everything at exactly the same wrong time each time I see him). I have a pretty good short term memory, and I only did 6 warzones last night, with each being pretty memorable. Still wondering if Im not doing the parse right tho.

Edited July 19, 2013 by Maelael