Hybrid DPS Vanguard Explained

[MoJozor]

I decided to make this thread since there are quite a few people asking me on forums and in-game about how the hybrid works.

 

Please bear with me as this is my first Guide and maybe everything will not be as clear as i wanted to be, so any suggestions or mentioning things that you don't understand well enough will be more than welcome.

 

Hybrid 2/22/22 : http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801bZrsMrobRMZfG0rzRr.3

Hybrid 8/22/16 : http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#801hMhZrsMrobRMZfG0rzo.3

 

In order to understand the hybrid rotation we need to start from the most basic Assault Spec rotation.

Since this has already been done in a very comprehensive thread, i urge anyone interested in learning hybrid to start by reading Suryi's thread An uncomfortably close look at Assault PvE DPS Rotation (and Specs)

I know it is alot to read and it talks about the Assault pre 2.0 but i do recommend it.

 

A small legend before starting:

IA - Ionic Accelerator

HiB - High Impact Bolt

IP - Ion pulse

SS - StockStrike

HS - Hammer Shot

GCD - Global Cooldown

 

Having said that i will extract the things which i find the most important to understand this thread:

 

1) Understanding the 4 GCD rule:

IP/SS (Procs IA) --GCD1-- HiB (free) --GCD2-- ABILITY1 --GCD3-- ABILITY2 --GCD4-- IP/SS (Procs IA) ---

As you can see you have 2 spare abilities between IA procs that you can use or a 3 sec channel one : pulse cannon

 

2) Assault is RNG(luck) based and as such a rigid priority list is suboptimal

What ability you will do next depends of a variety of things:

- how much ammo you have

- what dots are applied on the target

- At what step from the 4GCD you find yourself in or out of it (Unlucky IA proc)

 

3) What to do with those 2 spare Abilites that we have between IA procs

 

And this is where we begin the talk about hybrid spec.

The maximum damage you can with those 2 spare abilities is obviously Pulse cannon with 3 stacks.

The next most damaging ability is Pulse cannon with 2 stacks.

The next most damaging ability is Pulse cannon with 1 stack.

You see where i am going with this ? ... Pulse cannon is the best use of those 2 spare abilities.

 

Before you use pulse cannon though you have to watch for 2 things:

- You have at least 85% ammo (we don't want to get below 60% ammo)

- The target is affected by Gut.

 

If the target is not affected by gut, you will have to refresh it and then use pulse cannon.

But that means you will delay the chance to proc IA by 1 GCD, is it worth it ? YES , especially if you have 3 pulse cannon stacks !

Rather than delaying gut+pulse cannon by 4 more GCD's you are much better off delaying HiB refresh by 1 GCD.

 

Never underestimate the importance of Gut. Initial damage + the full duration of Gut is in average the 2nd highest damaging ability after pulse cannon (HiB and IR comes right after). The reason why you have to make sure it is applied before doing pulse cannon or for that matter any sort of damaging ability is because of the 3% extra damage you do on a target affected by Gut.

So ALWAYS make sure the target is affected by Gut.

 

 

When do we use IR ?

 

This is mainly for the 2/22/22 spec and it is the hardest question to answer to, since this is the reason why so many people have ammo management issues with it.

Unlike Gut you don't have to keep it all times unless you can afford it.

Lets talk about its damage, in average it does as much as HiB.

IR + HammerShot does more or less as much damage as 2xIP(+4 ticks of plasma cell)

IR + HS = 22 energy 2xIP = 36 energy

 

So to start answering the question lets imagine a couple of situations we would find ourselves into starting from GCD2: IP/SS (Procs IA) --GCD1-- HiB (free) --GCD2-- :

 

1st situation : target is affected by Gut, target is NOT affected by IR and pulse cannon is on cooldown.

- bellow 75% ammo and we dont have the free SS proc : 2 x HS

- 60% - 75% ammo but with a SS proc : HS + IP followed by the free SS

- 75% - 90% ammo : HS + IR

- more than 90% ammo w/o SS proc : IR + HS

- more than 90% ammo with SS proc : IR + IP followed by SS

 

2nd situation : target is NOT affected by Gut, target is NOT affected by IR and pulse cannon is on cooldown

- bellow 68% - 2 x HS

- 68 - 82 % - HS + Gut

- more than 82% w/o SS proc : Gut + IP

- more than 82% with SS proc : Gut + IR followed by SS

 

3rd situation : Pulse cannon is NOT on cooldown, target is NOT affected by IR, target is NOT affected by GUT

- bellow 68% - 2 x HS

- 68 - 82 % - HS + Gut

- 82% - 90% w/o SS proc : Pulse cannon

- 82% - 90% with SS proc : Gut + Pulse cannon

- over 90% : Gut + Pulse cannon

Note that IR is not applied at all, because is on a lower priority compared to Gut and Pulse cannon

 

So as you can see using IR is very, very situational, depending on how much ammo, If Gut is applied, if Pulse cannon is on cooldown, if we have the SS proc.

If you find it too difficult to maintain IR too in your rotation switch to the 8/22/16 Hybrid that doesn't require the use of IR at all.

 

 

I think this pretty much covers the BASIC hybrid rotation , yes i said basic because with practice you will learn little tricks that will come natural only after using the spec for quite a while.

A couple of examples of such "tricks":

- delaying using HiB right after refresh because using HiB will get you to 100% ammo, and that means wasted ammo, but being mindful at what step you are within the 4GCD

- delaying the chance to refresh HiB because pulse cannon is about to go off cooldown :

IP/SS (Procs IA) --GCD1-- HiB (free) --GCD2-- (pulse cannon will be off cooldown at the next GCD) HS - pulse cannon - IP/SS(procs IA)

- clipping Gut within those 2 spare abilities because you know you will not have the chance at the next set of 4GCD(either raid movement or pulse cannon will be off cooldown then)

Edited July 6, 2013 by MoJozor

[xXsgtstinkerXx]

This is a very very nice guide! Thanks for taking the time to do this, Thoric. The Only thing I would like to add is: don't use ion pulse again after you get a free stockstrike proc until you use that stockstrike. The only exeption being if you are at full ammo. I say this because you risk gaining another free stockstrike from using ion pulse without using that free SS. So using IP after you proc a free SS could potentially waste a free SS.

[MoJozor]

Well yes, you do have a chance to waste it, but then again using SS when you don't have a chance to refresh HiB is wrong too. I just pick the "wrong" that helps the rotation the most

 

The reason why i do IP and then SS is because IP is a filler within those 2 spare abilities and then SS for a 60% chance to refresh HiB.

Doing it the other way around will give me the same dps , but only with a 45% chance to refresh (even if i do get the SS proc with this last IP , SS will be on cooldown)

[Kungkotte]

Relly nice guide!

Its more or less exactly as i play my powertech. I have one question tho, what gear are you using? As in how mutch acc, surge, crit rating do you have? and what augments do you use? Saw that you had done 3000k+ on the dummy and i have only reached as far as 2700k+

[MoJozor]

Relly nice guide!

Its more or less exactly as i play my powertech. I have one question tho, what gear are you using? As in how mutch acc, surge, crit rating do you have? and what augments do you use? Saw that you had done 3000k+ on the dummy and i have only reached as far as 2700k+

 

9.42 accuracy (388 rating), 71% surge (395 rating)

250 crit rating, 1100 power(no stim), using BA and SA relics UW grade

3001 main stat (no stim), using 4 Partisan Eliminator Armorings for the pvp setbonus.

Epic Aim augments all around

Edited July 7, 2013 by MoJozor

[mfourcustom]

Sniper.

[Chickensevil]

Hope you don't mind. I saw this thread and decided to edit the terms over for the powertechs and post it on our class forum here

 

Awesome guide BTW!

[Chickensevil]

Just to add in my 2 cents. I was pulling about 2300 - 2400 on the dummy (no adrenal) in the "standard" pyro (assault) 31 build. I switch to this and even doing the rotation badly (cause I know I am messing things up here and there) I am getting 2600 - 2700. So the 2/22/22 spec is definately pretty solid. I can only imagine if I can get this rotation down a bit more, will be really great.

 

My questions for you:

Why crit? I see you said you were running 250 crit. Is this because you haven't gotten rid of it, you haven't tried it without crit, or because crit to 250 IS actually worth a damn?

 

Second, the biggest thing I can see that is going to kill me more than anything is Flame Thrower (Pulse Cannon) on boss fights. With heavy movement in all most all cases, how do you best plan for this? Is it best to shoot off a partial burn, or to skip it in your rotation until such time as you can stand still long enough to get it off all the way? This was my biggest issue running AP (Tactics) before, was trying to get into position to do the Flame Thrower (Pulse Cannon)

 

Finally, I see in your parse how you do your opener (which is always one of the tough things to get just right) but assuming you don't start a fight with everything off CD (for whatever reason, trash etc) what do you run in and start with? Do you still try to get RB (gut) - IM (IR) - FT (Pulse Cannon) off first? Or is there something else you might do if you don't have Thermal Sensor Override (Don't remember what that one is called off hand) up to use on IM (IR) in the first go around? Just skip it right?

[MoJozor]

My questions for you:

Why crit? I see you said you were running 250 crit. Is this because you haven't gotten rid of it, you haven't tried it without crit, or because crit to 250 IS actually worth a damn?

 

Well i like to think it is, is a personal choice , going with 250 crit. 0 crit builds don't appeal to me, especially in this case it makes more sense since, you have 30% extra dmg on HiB, IP and the 2 burning effects ... more crit more chance to do the 30% extra dmg than usual, rather than just stacking only power.

But that is MY choice, maybe others will have the same results or even better with full power build.

 

Second, the biggest thing I can see that is going to kill me more than anything is Flame Thrower (Pulse Cannon) on boss fights. With heavy movement in all most all cases, how do you best plan for this? Is it best to shoot off a partial burn, or to skip it in your rotation until such time as you can stand still long enough to get it off all the way? This was my biggest issue running AP (Tactics) before, was trying to get into position to do the Flame Thrower (Pulse Cannon)

 

You just have to know the fight and when to expect movement, delaying,if necessary, Pulse cannon by 1 HiB refresh rotation.

On heavy movement fights, or on those damn cores from operator IX, you may have better results with full Assault spec (no pulse cannon in rotation).

 

Finally, I see in your parse how you do your opener (which is always one of the tough things to get just right) but assuming you don't start a fight with everything off CD (for whatever reason, trash etc) what do you run in and start with? Do you still try to get RB (gut) - IM (IR) - FT (Pulse Cannon) off first? Or is there something else you might do if you don't have Thermal Sensor Override (Don't remember what that one is called off hand) up to use on IM (IR) in the first go around? Just skip it right?

 

At the begining of a boss fight everyone should have all their cooldowns ready, so yes, that is how i start every fight, maybe a sticky grenade from afar before getting in range of IM.

Wasting cooldowns on the last pack of trash is a mistake, but if does happen. either delay the pull (if it is an important boss fight) or as you said, just skip IM.

 

Oh, and i dont mind you "translating" the thread for the Powertechs.

[DemonJin]

how viable is this spec in pvp?

[kjmarst]

Very nice guide. I like seeing you different look at it.

 

I come at it as a Tactics with Assault spec rather than how it seems like you look at it: Assault with Tactics.

 

So basically I don't work off the 4GCD rule but rather the 15 sec between every PC (in which I need to get 3 stacks) rule. A combination of the two is probably best though so I'll see if I can improve on that.

 

One trick I've picked up is that PC has the same cooldown as the duration of Gut which means picking a set spot within your 15 sec rotation to use Gut means there's no clipping and no downtime. I gotten in the habit of using it as soon as my PC channel is done. Because you might get unlucky with ammo or lag or w/e and break the 15 sec rule, its probably better to use it as the last ability before PC comes of cooldown so that you don't get downtime on Gut in the middle of PC and miss out on the extra 3% for part of it. Another thing I can improve on.

[Chickensevil]

Yeah just in the short time I have messed with it. Assuming you get perfect procs I feel the best place for gut is the 4GCD rotation just before you would do PC again. Based on some short testing and working with it I have done, the "optimal" cycle should be

 

PC - SS/IP -HiB - IR - HS - SS/IP - HiB - gut - IP - SS/IP - HiB

 

This is not "Perfect" because if you count the ability chain you are actually one global behind keeping your dots up 100% of the time, however I don't know if its possible to actually do that without clipping and heat/ammo issues. But, because of where things are in the cycle you should always have gut up when you go for PC.

 

Of course if you have less than perfect proc it will set you back by 2 or more GCDS on the timing of your dots, but I am sure getting the free HiB is going to be the most important thing for your DPs. If I am wrong on anything let me know, Since I am still trying to figure this out myself.

Edited July 9, 2013 by Chickensevil

[ucata]

might sound as a ******* question but I played mostly as a assault/pyro freak so here playing a really good hybrid is kinda new to me in a way since we have 50/50 in both dps trees , what is the cell or cylinder that we must use plasma or the other one ? ty in advance:)

[xXsgtstinkerXx]

Plasma cell is used in the hybrid builds.

[ucata]

Plasma cell is used in the hybrid builds.

ty for the answer

[Mutace]

Hi i play the Powertech Hybrid.

Can someone tell me how to get this 3000 DPS ?!

 

talents: 2/22/22

my stats (tech):

bonus dmg 1505,8 (1353 AP)

accuracy: 110,48 (474)

crit: 23,83 (52)

critical multiplier: 68,68 (316)

aim: 3154

augments: all aim 32/20

pvp eliminator set bonus

 

http://www.torparse.com/a/369522

 

Best Parse was near to 2800. But then only around 2700. I switche to 8/22/16 tryed 0 Crit, lower the crit multiplier, switched back to PE set bonus...and so on.

Where are these 300 DPS?

Edited August 4, 2013 by Mutace