Petition to make the ewok not buy able by cc

[Blackardin]

Nicholas Yee is a much better research source on motivators in game play IMO. http://www.nickyee.com/pubs/2012%20CHI%20-%20Motivations%20Scale.pdf

 

Nicolas is paid handsomely by Ubisoft to research player motivators and behaviors under stimulus, and has been an academic researcher on games and players for more then a decade. http://www.nickyee.com/

 

They are looking at two different scenarios, no? One looking at game mechanics, the other motivational aspects such as self determination of one's character. The first seemed to indicate that the trend we are seeing here, involving choice, is a strong motivator in retaining customers. I didn't see it mentioned, but I would suggest that the ability to avoid tedious time wasters such as "grinding for items" would be a factor as it was with the migration from EQ to WoW with the eradication of such things as long corpse runs, item camping (that could take days or weeks), long travel times, sitting and meditating for up to 10 minutes to restore power or mana etc.

[Blackardin]

It's always fun watching folks whose only job is playing a video game rant about what it means to "earn" something.

 

Sorry to side track, but that gave me a chuckle. ;p

[Reno_Tarshil]

How is this thread still going?

[Blackardin]

If it gives them any sense of pride or achievement, what harm is there?

 

Very scary thought. "Pride, or "achievement" is not something that should be sought in a video game, but in real life, real world effort and accomplishment. If someone is seeking these things through on-line video games it tends lend to a very skewed sense of real world reality.

 

In short, I would contend that one should "earn", "achieve", develop a sense of "self pride" in their real life, and look to gaming for what it is, a fun distraction. Perhaps that is the glaring issue here. Perhaps it is those that seek their sense of self worth in such a game that feel items should be "earned", and "worked for" so as to feel a sense of accomplishment. An Ewok would not do that for me. ;p If I wanted it, I'd just buy it and go back to enjoying the game.....with no negative long term effects. ;p

Edited August 5, 2013 by Blackardin

[branmakmuffin]

How is this thread still going?

Because you posted to it.

[danielearley]

How is this thread still going?

 

Because there are two sides, so each wants to get the final word.

 

Here's my go

 

I have legacy 40, but I'll be saving my million creds and buying it with CC, so yes I'm glad it's available in the CM.

 

Getting to Legacy 40 is my own personal achievement I do not need a teddy bear following me around so show others how good I am!

I'm happy for anyone who wants to spend money on getting this Companion, as a lot of players are casual, and it may take them a year to get legacy 40. It took me 6 months and I play quite a lot.

[Atramar]

to be honest, I didn't really get that guide to gaining new companion.

 

I want it for my 2 chars, one rep shadow and one imp mercenary, maybe for one (or two) new chars I might create upon deleting one or adding new slots.

what is procedure here...

I pay 1 mil for initial contract.

then I pay 700 cc or 300k creds?

'Treek Character Perk for the appropriate faction' - that put me out of balance of my mind too. My english isn't perfect, but I don't think I'm stupid or something, but that whole post confused me to bits.

[AlaricSevGirl]

to be honest, I didn't really get that guide to gaining new companion.

 

I want it for my 2 chars, one rep shadow and one imp mercenary, maybe for one (or two) new chars I might create upon deleting one or adding new slots.

what is procedure here...

I pay 1 mil for initial contract.

then I pay 700 cc or 300k creds?

'Treek Character Perk for the appropriate faction' - that put me out of balance of my mind too. My english isn't perfect, but I don't think I'm stupid or something, but that whole post confused me to bits.

 

Legacy level 40 and 1 million credits to unlock it for 1 character....

700 cartel coins to unlock it for your account through collections or 300K credits per character........

 

Or

 

2100 Cartel coins to unlock it for 1 character......

700 cartel coins to unlock it for your account through collections or 300K credits per character........

[curtkram]

Nicholas Yee is a much better research source on motivators in game play IMO. http://www.nickyee.com/pubs/2012%20CHI%20-%20Motivations%20Scale.pdf

 

Nicolas is paid handsomely by Ubisoft to research player motivators and behaviors under stimulus, and has been an academic researcher on games and players for more then a decade. http://www.nickyee.com/

 

i read that article. all 4 pages. i don't see how it relates to buying an ewok, and i don't see how buying crap in a cartel market is good for a game in any way (except to make EA more money; it's not good for the players who like to play the game). they talk about motivators being social, immersive, or achievements. treek, especially when bought through the cartel market, involves no grouping or conversing with people. it's not social. as i understand it, treek is this single ewok that escaped from endor or whatever. having 1,000 copies of a unique ewok is not immersive. it's actually story-breaking. shopping is not an achievement. at least with legacy level 40, there is something that has to be done in-game to get the ewok.

 

what the research your presenting us shows, if it's accurate, is that bioware doesn't know how to design a game.

 

Very scary thought. "Pride, or "achievement" is not something that should be sought in a video game, but in real life, real world effort and accomplishment. If someone is seeking these things through on-line video games it tends lend to a very skewed sense of real world reality.

 

In short, I would contend that one should "earn", "achieve", develop a sense of "self pride" in their real life, and look to gaming for what it is, a fun distraction. Perhaps that is the glaring issue here. Perhaps it is those that seek their sense of self worth in such a game that feel items should be "earned", and "worked for" so as to feel a sense of accomplishment. An Ewok would not do that for me. ;p If I wanted it, I'd just buy it and go back to enjoying the game.....with no negative long term effects. ;p

 

so what do you log in for? the above study suggest the primary motivators in a game like this relate to social, immersion, or achievements. if you just log in to say hi to friends then go back to real-life achievements, then that would fall under "social." buying treek from the cartel market does not help you do that. you can visit with friends just as easy without a treek; there isn't any sort of social or conversational gain to having treek. buying treek from the cartel market is just shopping.

 

if you log in for immersion, buying treek from the cartel market doesn't help you. you have to use and out-of-game shopping site to buy credits with your out-of-game credit card and spend out-of-game money. it's pretty much the opposite of immersive.

 

you seem to think playing a game to achieve something is a bad thing, so we don't really need to look at how buying treek from the cartel market makes it a store-bought item rather than an achievement. it can't be both. that's just how it is.

[branmakmuffin]

i read that article. all 4 pages. i don't see how it relates to buying an ewok, and i don't see how buying crap in a cartel market is good for a game in any way (except to make EA more money; it's not good for the players who like to play the game).

Perhaps you need to be reminded that for some, buying stuff from the CM (directly or indirectly off the GTN) is "playing the game." When you make cutkram's MMO, you can forbid such tomfoolery. Until then, you'll have to accept that not everyone plays the cutkram way.

 

That's just how it is.

[curtkram]

Maybe they will. Maybe they'll spend countless years dressing up that ewok. You don't know that one way or the other. And the notion that it seems unlikely to you that this would happen isn't really enough to say that you do.

 

Bottom line? You are not other people. It would be wise not to presume to speak for them.

 

Ironically, this is one of the guiding principles of a petition- if this truly is the opinion of that many people, presumably the document will bear it out. So yes, I feel you've missed the point.

 

as i understand it, there is only one other companion customization for this ewok, so you're suggesting someone could spend years switching between options 'A' and 'B.' that might be right. i don't know. i think i'm correct in saying buying things from the cartel market is not a fun game, but i accept that i could be wrong.

 

if you're posting this because what you find entertaining in this game is buying stuff off the cartel market, i would like to know more about your opinion. as suggested in the research data andryah posted, shopping is not what people like about MMOs. that study was focused on WoW though, which is a successful subscription based MMO, which swtor is not. perhaps bioware is actually doing a very good job attracting the people that wouldn't like WoW, since WoW has more gameplay and less QVC.

 

the study andryah posted says there are primarily 3 motivators in MMOs. those are social, immersion, and achievements. you get no gain to any of those from buying an ewok from the cartel market. what's the 4th that swtor has grabbed onto that you and branmak like? is it simply shopping, or is there some other aspect to buying the ewok off the cartel market i'm not getting? the initial 3 categories make sense to me. help me to not make presumptions about other people; help me understand what attracts you to a game that's focused on a shopping center.

Edited August 5, 2013 by curtkram

[LG_XxLegacyxX]

Very scary thought. "Pride, or "achievement" is not something that should be sought in a video game, but in real life, real world effort and accomplishment. If someone is seeking these things through on-line video games it tends lend to a very skewed sense of real world reality.

 

In short, I would contend that one should "earn", "achieve", develop a sense of "self pride" in their real life, and look to gaming for what it is, a fun distraction. Perhaps that is the glaring issue here. Perhaps it is those that seek their sense of self worth in such a game that feel items should be "earned", and "worked for" so as to feel a sense of accomplishment. An Ewok would not do that for me. ;p If I wanted it, I'd just buy it and go back to enjoying the game.....with no negative long term effects. ;p

 

FINALLY SOMEONE WHO CAN SPEAK SOME LOGIC!

 

Thank you user. Some faith in humanity has been restored.

[TravelersWay]

i read that article. all 4 pages. i don't see how it relates to buying an ewok, and i don't see how buying crap in a cartel market is good for a game in any way (except to make EA more money; it's not good for the players who like to play the game).

 

Almost two million people did not feel that this game was worth the price of a subscription. Almost two million people see value in playing it without a subscription and buying stuff from the CM. The primary benefit is that it keeps the game funded so we can still keep playing instead of watching the devs flick the power switch to the "off" position.

 

is it simply shopping, or is there some other aspect to buying the ewok off the cartel market i'm not getting? the initial 3 categories make sense to me. help me to not make presumptions about other people; help me understand what attracts you to a game that's focused on a shopping center.

 

It's a Quality of Life. It gives the players the option to play or get what they want, when the want, in the manner that suits them the best at that particular moment. Some people have a lot of time, but very little money. Therefore, they can play more and "earn" an Ewok companion in game. Other people have more money, but less time to play. Having the Ewok in a store that they can get with the click of the button works better for them. It all comes down to how one gets enjoyment out of a game. Personally speaking, I like games that give me options to get the stuff I want:

 

1) Play "normally" using time

2) Buy in game via in game currency

3) Buy via a cash shop using money

 

Having all three options gives me the opportunity to customize my character and my gameplay according to the method that suits me best at that point in time. Having an Ewok companion brings joy to people who play the game - it makes the game more fun for them. For those with time, that fun may encompass spending that time to reach a level in which they unlock said companion with their rewards in game. For others, just simply having the companion is enjoyment enough, so being able to get that companion with real life money allows them to get that enjoyment sooner and thus allows them to have fun for a longer period of time in the game.

[Drudenfusz]

Somehow I think the people who are against a cartel coin purchase option should be glad that the ewok is not a cartel market only thing, but one that people can get with just credits and legacy level... but I guess the thread would be equally long if that would have been the case.

[LG_XxLegacyxX]

so what do you log in for?

To have fun, and play a game I enjoy.

 

The above study suggest the primary motivators in a game like this relate to social, immersion, or achievements.

 

Cool story bro.

I play because: I feel like it, and it's fun.

There's many different reasons, but it's not always to grind for s**t.

 

if you just log in to say hi to friends then go back to real-life achievements, then that would fall under "social." buying treek from the cartel market does not help you do that. you can visit with friends just as easy without a treek; there isn't any sort of social or conversational gain to having treek. buying treek from the cartel market is just shopping.

 

Tell me again why buying Treek is a bad thing? I want the companion. I want her when she comes out, and I want to use her while leveling up my other toons. I don't have legacy level 40, and as one user posted previously, it took him/her 6 months.

 

if you log in for immersion, buying treek from the cartel market doesn't help you

 

Once again my friend, I log into SWTOR to HAVE FUN. The way I do it shouldn't be anyone's business.

 

you have to use and out-of-game shopping site to buy credits with your out-of-game credit card and spend out-of-game money.

 

I just get redirected to the offical SWTOR site...not sure what you mean by external out-of-game site. The game and swtor.com are pretty much linked together.

 

 

it's pretty much the opposite of immersive.

 

That might be so, but like I said, I'd like Treek when she comes out. (Also, you're talking in circles)

 

 

you seem to think playing a game to achieve something is a bad thing, so we don't really need to look at how buying treek from the cartel market makes it a store-bought item rather than an achievement. it can't be both. that's just how it is.

 

No one is saying "earning" Treek is a bad thing...some of us just prefer to: have her faster, or not spend 1 million credits.

[curtkram]

The way I do it shouldn't be anyone's business.

 

this is really all i was asking. it's great if you enjoy the game. noone should say you're doing it wrong. i'm just asking what's appealing in buying things off the cartel market. you say it's fun, and anything more is nobody's business. that's a not very effective communication, but if you're defensive about your motivations that's fine too.

 

what i'm saying is, i don't think cartel market purchases alone will keep people around. if the game continues in this direction, i think a lot of people will get bored and quit. a lot of people said they like the idea of buying things as a way of bypassing the requirements to spend in-game time doing stuff, because they don't have enough time to play but they do have money. for this group of people, there won't be alot of concurrent log-ins (since they don't have time to be logged in). that means less people doing stuff like group finder or ops. that means i get bored and quit, and other people like me who enjoy video games (with the 3 motivators studied in the report andryah linked) will also quit. it seems unlikely to me that buying stuff off the cartel market will continue to be entertaining. that would mean your group of people will also quit before too long. i'm not saying you will, just based on how i understand things to work, it's likely.

 

andryah posted a study that i think confirms my suspicions in what motivates gamers. if there is a 4th group of motivators that is essentially competing with the home shopping network, i would like to understand that better. if the 4th group of motivators is something other than that, i would like to understand that too.

[branmakmuffin]

this is really all i was asking. it's great if you enjoy the game. noone should say you're doing it wrong. i'm just asking what's appealing in buying things off the cartel market. you say it's fun, and anything more is nobody's business. that's a not very effective communication, but if you're defensive about your motivations that's fine too.

You are projecting. He is not the least bit defensive. His definition of fun is different from yours. Just accept it.

 

what i'm saying is, i don't think cartel market purchases alone will keep people around. if the game continues in this direction, i think a lot of people will get bored and quit.

Maybe yes, maybe no. In any event, it does not matter.

[curtkram]

You are projecting. He is not the least bit defensive. His definition of fun is different from yours. Just accept it.

 

Maybe yes, maybe no. In any event, it does not matter.

 

i'm not. i said "it's great if you enjoy the game. noone should say you're doing it wrong." you're looking for fault, and where there is none you have to make stuff up. it's quite sad.

 

it does matter to me. that's why i'm asking.

[TheProthean]

please remove cc purchase option. it should be a reward for people that earned it. not people who can fork over cash. or if you still want a cash option. have it still require the legacy lv 40 req

[Atramar]

Legacy level 40 and 1 million credits to unlock it for 1 character....

700 cartel coins to unlock it for your account through collections or 300K credits per character........

 

Or

 

2100 Cartel coins to unlock it for 1 character......

700 cartel coins to unlock it for your account through collections or 300K credits per character........

 

thanks <3

why couldn't they write it in short simple way....

that was how I understood it. but so much text, I wasn't sure in my reading skills any more.

Edited August 5, 2013 by Atramar

[SkunkWerks]

as i understand it, there is only one other companion customization for this ewok, so you're suggesting someone could spend years switching between options 'A' and 'B.' that might be right. i don't know.

 

It doesn't have to be right. It doesn't have to be wrong. It isn't you, and that's all that really matters here.

 

if you're posting this because what you find entertaining in this game is buying stuff off the cartel market, i would like to know more about your opinion.

 

My opinion is that my sense of achievement and self worth isn't measured in how hard I ground my gears in a game to "achieve" a goal whose bar was set arbitrarily. It never will be.

 

I've had my turn playing nigh-impossible games. When I was young and had plenty of time to beat my head into brick walls just to see what color my brains were, this is what I did. I played things (and won at them) that would put you folk to shame on your best day of grinding.

 

Now I'm older. Now I have other priorities in my life. When I sit down to play this game it isn't to "overcome" anything. If I want a sense of achievement, I get that buzz one hell of a lot more efficiently by doing, learning and accomplishing things whose difficulty is not arbitrarily determined.

 

Real life doesn't have developers, or designers. It doesn't have forums do debate about how hard a thing should or should not be, and then let how hard it ultimately ends up being be subject to popular opinion.

 

That, to me, is true achievement. The only achievement worth having.

 

If I've got some pencil neck telling me I have to run in circles for exactly X many weeks to "achieve" something, do you know how I'm going to reckon the value in it?

 

I'm not. Not at all. Not certainly so I can justify someone else's imagined idea of what a "sense of achievement" should be.

 

the study andryah posted says there are primarily 3 motivators in MMOs. those are social, immersion, and achievements. you get no gain to any of those from buying an ewok from the cartel market.

 

Maybe. I also don't lose any by it, either. My capacity to be social, feel immersed, or feel that I achieved something is simply not affected in any detrimental fashion by my having bought an imaginary ewok. This is because all three of those items are entirely subjective. While I'd love to help you understand why I don't mind the Ewok being in the cartel market, it would pretty much require brain surgery- you're proceeding on the false assumption that- for me- any or all three of those items- achievement, socialization, and immersion- are somehow diminished by the purchase of a pixelated ewok.

 

Except that this is simply not the case with me. And this is because there is no empirical measure of any of these things that applies to absolutely everyone. And again, this is my point: your sense of achievement is only applicable to you. No one else.

 

You don't really have to comprehend why this is not a problem for me in order to understand that it isn't. All you have to do is accept that, once again, how you value, add to, and subtract from these qualities in your own estimation of things is unique to you, and does not apply to anyone else but you.

 

None of this bothers me- not because I derive fun, or feel more social, or more achieved by way of the purchase an Ewok- but because none of those things are at stake in purchasing an Ewok. Not for me.

 

The sapping of one's sense of achievement (fun/socialism/etc.) by way of pixEwok is uniquely your province.

Edited August 6, 2013 by SkunkWerks

[curtkram]

My opinion is that my sense of achievement and self worth isn't measured in how hard I ground my gears in a game to "achieve" a goal whose bar was set arbitrarily. It never will be.

 

you answered "what motivates you" by saying what doesn't motivate you. that's alright though. this isn't a test or anything, you're not required to respond, so if there is something you're not comfortable with for whatever reason, you don't have to share.

 

i just saw this on penny arcarde and thought it was quite relevant to this conversation, and worth watching:

http://penny-arcade.com/patv/episode/game-compulsion-part-3

[Blackardin]

 

so what do you log in for? the above study suggest the primary motivators in a game like this relate to social, immersion, or achievements. if you just log in to say hi to friends then go back to real-life achievements, then that would fall under "social." buying treek from the cartel market does not help you do that. you can visit with friends just as easy without a treek; there isn't any sort of social or conversational gain to having treek. buying treek from the cartel market is just shopping.

 

if you log in for immersion, buying treek from the cartel market doesn't help you. you have to use and out-of-game shopping site to buy credits with your out-of-game credit card and spend out-of-game money. it's pretty much the opposite of immersive.

 

you seem to think playing a game to achieve something is a bad thing, so we don't really need to look at how buying treek from the cartel market makes it a store-bought item rather than an achievement. it can't be both. that's just how it is.

 

To have fun, a distraction from life, to enjoy time with like minded friends.....the same reason I would go fishing.

 

In order for your above theory to thwart my contention one would first have to narrowly pound me into one of the square pegs listed.

 

I would buy a Treek because it would be fun to have one? I'm not buying one however because I do not see the fun, beyond a novelty, of having one. Has nothing to do with social standing or achievement felt through a video game. Therefore, having to slog through quests or faction grinds to get one would not be "fun" to me and would certainly not provide any sense of "achievement".

 

....and again, if someone is playing this game in order to achieve social status or feel a sense of pride and accomplishment I would contend that they should re-evaluate their priorities.

Edited August 7, 2013 by Blackardin

[branmakmuffin]

i'm not. i said "it's great if you enjoy the game. noone should say you're doing it wrong." you're looking for fault, and where there is none you have to make stuff up. it's quite sad.

 

it does matter to me. that's why i'm asking.

Why does it matter to you if people leave the game? It's just a game. It will eventually die. What're you gonna do, hold a wake when it does? We will all find other things to do with our leisure time and money.

[carlbaratta]

What does everyone get at Legacy 40 prior to this patch? I didn't think much but maybe I am missing something? Otherwise folks will need to spend CC, so ....... not sure what people are caring on?