The REAL Most Powerful Jedi

[tunewalker]

So then why did Kyle have 3 Jedi with him, if they got in his way? Doesn't really make much sense.

 

last I checked he wasn't counting on running into caedus. It was a standard mission one of which there talents and the ability to split up and handle multiple tasks would be beneficial but I will look it up again to recheck that.

[Wolfninjajedi]

The same reason Windu took Fisto, Tiin and Kolar to the Chancellor's office.

 

Yet they seemed to do better, then just die.

 

last I checked he wasn't counting on running into caedus. It was a standard mission one of which there talents and the ability to split up and handle multiple tasks would be beneficial but I will look it up again to recheck that.

 

So you have the book then? Well might I ask a favor, to read the whole fight again to settle all this? Or just skim?

Edited July 10, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[tunewalker]

Yet they seemed to do better, then just die.

 

 

 

So you have the book then? Well might I ask a favor, to read the whole fight again to settle all this? Or just skim?

 

Ok you were right they were their to confront Caedus but not to kill him only to put a tracker on him it seems the other 3 were their to help serve as a distraction.

[Beniboybling]

I think we are getting caught up on titles here assuming that a Dark council member is stronger then some one noted as a Moderately powerful sith during the NJO and it seems we are assuming Nyriss is uber powerful because she could make people disintegrate with force lightning. The problem is we know people like Galen Marek are more powerful then her and he never incinerated any one. Also we assume Nihilus was incredibly powerful and Meetra beat him and yet was unable to beat a seemingly weaker Nyriss. When you see this stuff you have to ask the question why? and it becomes a simple awnser when you look at this http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_lightning.

 

Force lightning doesn't act like normal every day lightning from the sky different force lightning has different properties. It seems to suggest the most powerful of these is actually one that has a kinetic force behind it, something Nyriss's doesn't appear to have as beni said Revan's hand doesn't move back against the pressure of it this could actually more likely be that unlike Dooku's, which was capable of lifting a grown man off the ground, Nyriss had no kinetic force behind the force lightning rather then it being an indication of Revan being MASSIVELY more powerful then Nyriss. Also while Nyriss may have had a powerful offense she also seemed to lack in defense since she failed to defend against her own attack at all showing as much resistance to it as the non-force sensitive gaurds she had zapped earlier. All that aside if we are to assume Nyriss was indeed extremely powerful and Revan was some how MASSIVELY more powerful then Nyriss and then Vitiate was more powerful then Revan..... then the fan boys would be right that kind of scaling would put both Revan and Vitiate above Sidious, this is something we know is not true so Nyriss, Sion, Traya, and Nihilus can't be as strong as people assume they are.

 

 

Edit: this is just a theory obviously please don't take this to seriously I am just splurging thoughts trying to make sense of all of this. Its that whole how does Meetra beat a guy that can suck up and kill planets and then turn around and get beaten by a guy who can incinerate people with lightning who then turns around and gets embarrassed by Revan who then gets owned by Vitiate....... and not have revan and Vitiate some how be 150% of palpatine......

I don't think this whole kinetic Force thing makes any sense. As far as we are aware all variant of Force lighting and principally the same, the only thing that differs is voltage. We are not at liberty to make any further assumptions.

 

And I can't imagine Darth Nyriss, and exceptionally powerful dark sider, would be at all lacking in the field of Force lightning. The simplest and most obvious explanation is that Revan was powerful enough to absorb the attack with relative ease, whereas if he had been weaker it would have struggled.

 

Futhermore, I haven't read the Force Unleashed novel but in-game he incinerates non-Force users all the time. Despite this his mastery over Force lightning has displayed itself to be exceptional in other ways. We can't simply dismiss her feat because more powerful Force users have not demonstrated it.

 

That said powerful dark siders such as Malgus, Bane, Plagueis and Sidious himself have shown themselves capable of this. So it certainly points to her being exceptionally powerful. And finally Nyriss' defense is irrelevant, all that matters is that Revan caught and redirected the attack with ease.

 

Anyway my final assessment is that Revan is roughly 50% more powerful than Nyriss, as this is the gap I'd assume exists between Yoda and Dooku. Basically whatever the gap between Yoda and Dooku is and then some.

 

P.S. Meetra was only able to defeat Nihilus because she was a wound in the Force. Really Meetra owes much of her ability to that fact, which in turn is why Traya thought she was her greatest student because she gave up the Force. Given that I don't find it too hard to believe that Revan is almost twice as powerful as Meetra.

 

EDIT: You should also note that according to the Star Wars Encyclopedia, Traya is more powerful than Meetra. I assume her loss was a mixture of her inability to use Force drain and Meetra's superior lightsaber skills.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Wolfninjajedi]

Ok you were right they were their to confront Caedus but not to kill him only to put a tracker on him it seems the other 3 were their to help serve as a distraction.

 

Hm...put a tracker on a Sith Lord?....Who came up with that bright idea?

Edited July 10, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[tunewalker]

Hm...put a tracker on a Sith Lord?....Who came up with that bright idea?

 

Kyp durron and Luke.... it worked... lol

[LadyKulvax]

Can we stop throwing in random percentages all over the show and random beliefs, this is a canon debate using facts, come on people.

[Vratza]

I have not read the entire post but I think Darth Bane should be added to your list of most powerful. Alone he created the rule of 2, killing off hundreds of sith and jedi. And the end of the 3rd book hints of the greatest power. But I will not give spoilers. He may be the strongest along with Luke with what is inferred!

[tunewalker]

I don't think this whole kinetic Force thing makes any sense. As far as we are aware all variant of Force lighting and principally the same, the only thing that differs is voltage. We are not at liberty to make any further assumptions.

 

And I can't imagine Darth Nyriss, and exceptionally powerful dark sider, would be at all lacking in the field of Force lightning. The simplest and most obvious explanation is that Revan was powerful enough to absorb the attack with relative ease, whereas if he had been weaker it would have struggled.

 

Futhermore, I haven't read the Force Unleashed novel but in-game he incinerates non-Force users all the time. Despite this his mastery over Force lightning has displayed itself to be exceptional in other ways. We can't simply dismiss her feat because more powerful Force users have not demonstrated it.

 

That said powerful dark siders such as Malgus, Bane, Plagueis and Sidious himself have shown themselves capable of this. So it certainly points to her being exceptionally powerful. And finally Nyriss' defense is irrelevant, all that matters is that Revan caught and redirected the attack with ease.

 

Anyway my final assessment is that Revan is roughly 50% more powerful than Nyriss, as this is the gap I'd assume exists between Yoda and Dooku. Basically whatever the gap between Yoda and Dooku is and then some.

 

P.S. Meetra was only able to defeat Nihilus because she was a wound in the Force. Really Meetra owes much of her ability to that fact, which in turn is why Traya thought she was her greatest student because she gave up the Force. Given that I don't find it too hard to believe that Revan is almost twice as powerful as Meetra.

 

That still makes no sense how can some one be more powerful be able to use force lightning and not have more powerful force lightning as far as not having different properties you didn't read this did you? http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_lightning

 

Also what makes no sense if Nihilus was powerful enough to suck up that much energy how did he not have strong enough force choke to just Choke Meetra out if he was supposed to be stronger then Nyriss or even on the same lvl as Nyriss.

 

Edit: also begs question..... If sidious was able to incinerate people with the force (which he was read him do it) why didn't he do so to Luke after he said and now you die and he amped it up to full power supposedly...... wait how was amped up to full power not incinerate Luke instantly..... same question for when Vader picked him up..... damn it the more my brain thinks the less this **** makes sense.

Edited July 10, 2013 by tunewalker

[Wolfninjajedi]

Kyp durron and Luke.... it worked... lol

 

Really? Luke? Hm...odd, he seems smarter then that. But it worked so yay, its just like...they endangered several Jedi just to put a tracker on one guy lol.

[LadyKulvax]

Really? Luke? Hm...odd, he seems smarter then that. But it worked so yay, its just like...they endangered several Jedi just to put a tracker on one guy lol.

 

IIRC he had like this stealth base and secret establishments and places no one knew of, so they needed to plant a tracker on him.

[Wolfninjajedi]

IIRC he had like this stealth base and secret establishments and places no one knew of, so they needed to plant a tracker on him.

 

Why not ship?

 

I have not read the entire post but I think Darth Bane should be added to your list of most powerful. Alone he created the rule of 2, killing off hundreds of sith and jedi. And the end of the 3rd book hints of the greatest power. But I will not give spoilers. He may be the strongest along with Luke with what is inferred!

 

This is for most powerful Jedi, and as strong as Luke? HA! That is a laugh.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[tunewalker]

Why not ship?

 

 

 

This is for most powerful Jedi, and as strong as Luke? HA! That is a laugh.

 

that last part was funny. at least I can still laugh while my brain hurts trying to figure the rest of this out.

[Beniboybling]

If I am not mistaken it happened soon after the Abeloth thing..... also those 3 other knights were not assisting Katarn they were in his way. Had they not been there the fight would have been more even but Katarn was busy protecting them rather then fighting Caedus.

 

 

Edit: fighting named sabre's or not each of the sabre's are suggested to be around the level of High ranking darths (possibly DC members think Malgus) of the old republic era. Again from what I can tell.

In his way or not, Caedus easily batted away each of Katarn's attacks. And in fact one of those Jedi who was supposedly in his way, saved Katarn from getting his leg sliced off. It was also said Jedi that allowed Katarn to graze his chin. I don't think Katarn would have done much better if the Jedi had not been present.

 

Also the fact Katarn could not sense the speeder Caedus rammed into his back doesn't say much for his ability.

 

If I were to make a comparison with Revan I'd direct our attention to Revan's duel with Vitiate, which was far more successful, Vitiate being one rung below Caedus. And Vitiate clearly perceived Revan as dangerous as Caedus did (although the latter was proved untrue) as it was said battle that led to Vitiate creating a Voice.

[tunewalker]

In his way or not, Caedus easily batted away each of Katarn's attacks. And in fact one of those Jedi who was supposedly in his way, saved Katarn from getting his leg sliced off. It was also said Jedi that allowed Katarn to graze his chin. I don't think Katarn would have done much better if the Jedi had not been present.

 

Also the fact Katarn could not sense the speeder Caedus rammed into his back doesn't say much for his ability.

 

If I were to make a comparison with Revan I'd direct our attention to Revan's duel with Vitiate, which was far more successful, Vitiate being one rung below Caedus. And Vitiate clearly perceived Revan as dangerous as Caedus did (although the latter was proved untrue) as it was said battle that led to Vitiate creating a Voice.

 

I don't even know any more don't take anything I say seriously right now my brain hurts from trying to make **** make sense when I have it figured out I will get back to you. until then http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUFHjk0i2L4

[Wolfninjajedi]

I don't even know any more don't take anything I say seriously right now my brain hurts from trying to make **** make sense when I have it figured out I will get back to you. until then http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dUFHjk0i2L4

 

Oh...you can never go wrong with Looney Tunes. On a completely unrelated note to this thread, it is Mel Blanc's death anniversary.

Edited July 10, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[tunewalker]

Oh...you can never go wrong with Looney Tunes. On a completely unrelated note to this thread, it is Mel Blanc's death anniversary.

 

well that's kind of a downer...... but ya I think I feel like bugs at 3:55 in that clip.

 

 

Edit: ok kind of back on topic..... I don't know that we can use revan's fight against vitiate as indicative of anything (at least not by the way the wookie reads)

 

"Standing perfectly still after rising to his feet, the Emperor gathered his strength and unleashed a wave of energy that lifted Revan off his feet and threw him backwards, but the Jedi rolled to his feet and advanced again as the Emperor reached out with his mind. This time, Revan opened himself to the Force and allowed both the light and dark sides to flow through him before he released the Force in its purest form—an action that lit up the air between him and the Emperor and sent both of them flying. Recovering, Revan raced towards his enemy and deflected the Emperor's first bolt of lightning, though it stopped him in his tracks, and he proceed to knock the next aside, dodge the following bolt, and he deflected the final attack straight back at the Emperor. Angered, the Sith Lord gathered his strength and unleashed a massive storm of lightning at Revan, and the Jedi Master's attempts to absorb and contain the energy like before failed—the power of the attack overwhelmed him and sent electricity coursing through his body, boiling his skin and causing his mask to superheat on his burning face"

 

It seems to suggest that Revan was a big nothing to Vitiate until he (for lack of a better word or way to describe it) achieved oneness in the force and the moment he lost said oneness he again went to being a big zero in the face of vitiate so I don't think Revan's performance against Vitiate would work much in his favor as only through an act of oneness could he stand up to him which says right there Kyle actually held better against Caedus since he was fighting him on fairly even ground.

Edited July 10, 2013 by tunewalker

[Wolfninjajedi]

well that's kind of a downer...... but ya I think I feel like bugs at 3:55 in that clip.

 

Prepare to be even more downed!

 

Speechless

[tunewalker]

Prepare to be even more downed!

 

Speechless

 

OK I was happy..... jerk.....

[Wolfninjajedi]

OK I was happy..... jerk.....

 

Edited July 10, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[tunewalker]

Ok further thoughts.... between Revan and Kyle just what ever opinion blah blah yada yada

 

Senses: I think Revan gets this one by a small margin Kyle has shown some really good feats but I think Revan's visions should put him over here..... again I think

 

Control: This one is hard to call we have Revan's tutanimis against Nyriss which my brain still hurts trying to figure that all out and we know Kyle was skilled in tutanimis as well and was also extremely skilled in other applications of control...... in all honesty my brain hurts trying to figure this one so I am just going to call it a draw for now cus I would like to walk away not clutching my head in agony.

 

Alter: this one I think e have seen better feats from Katarn here his lightning was powerful enough to instantly kill people even YV which were known resistant to force powers and was also very skilled with telekinetics.......

 

I don't care who fought what trying to rank a fight in a non VS thread seems a bit pointless the more you think about it and other than that trying to compare Nyriss to Desann is pointless because hey we know Katarn got massively stronger after that and we cant really tell who was better between the 2 any way.... its all speculation and makes my head hurt .

 

Edit: again honestly I think in our arguments for Saba and Revan we kind of determined the 2 are close in power without us actually discovering which is more powerful just that they would be within a couple percentages of each other so if Kyle is above Saba he is either right next to or a bit higher then Revan again Just splurging thoughts

Edited July 10, 2013 by tunewalker

[Beniboybling]

If I am not mistaken it happened soon after the Abeloth thing..... also those 3 other knights were not assisting Katarn they were in his way. Had they not been there the fight would have been more even but Katarn was busy protecting them rather then fighting Caedus.

 

 

Edit: fighting named sabre's or not each of the sabre's are suggested to be around the level of High ranking darths (possibly DC members think Malgus) of the old republic era. Again from what I can tell.

The Jedi weren't getting in his way, on one occasion one Jedi saved him from having his leg severed. If anything it was Caedus who was at a disadvantage as he had to micromanage three Jedi Knights while deflecting Katarn's attack, which he did with ease:

 

Katarn began the duel with a strike that Caedus easily deflected as he force pushed Hu'lya into Mithric. Katarn tried to strike Jacen again, but he dodged the blade and kicked Valin Horn in the chin. Katarn nearly kicked Jacen in the head but he managed to partially avoid it, catching a scrape on his cheek. Jacen retaliated by slashing at Katarn's leg, but his strike was blocked by Kolir.

 

Nowhere in that particular extract, which encompasses both of Katarn's attacks, does it seem to illustrate the Jedi getting in Katarn's way, but rather Caedus systematically batting away each of their attacks. If Katarn had been on his own, his attacks would have been dispelled with similar ease and Katarn would have been easily defeated.

 

The fact that Caedus managed to throw a speeder at Katarn without him realising doesn't exactly help his position.

 

Now I'm not sure how you reached the conclusion that Kyle fared better than Revan against Vitiate, as this is obviously not the case. Katarn failed to land a single hit on Caedus despite having three other Jedi as back-up. On the other hand Revan reflected Vitiate's lightning back at him, knocking him to the ground, and managed to absorb the full force of his most potent attack, albeit being overwhelmed after a short period.

 

Saying Vitiate did not consider Revan a threat is also untrue, as that duel prompted Revan to create a Voice. Did Caedus get all paranoid and try to prevent himself from being exposed again after his incident with Katarn? No, he laughed in their faces and proceeded to gut them all like children - literally reducing them to a fumbling mess.

That still makes no sense how can some one be more powerful be able to use force lightning and not have more powerful force lightning as far as not having different properties you didn't read this did you? http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Force_lightning

 

Also what makes no sense if Nihilus was powerful enough to suck up that much energy how did he not have strong enough force choke to just Choke Meetra out if he was supposed to be stronger then Nyriss or even on the same lvl as Nyriss.

 

Edit: also begs question..... If sidious was able to incinerate people with the force (which he was read him do it) why didn't he do so to Luke after he said and now you die and he amped it up to full power supposedly...... wait how was amped up to full power not incinerate Luke instantly..... same question for when Vader picked him up..... damn it the more my brain thinks the less this **** makes sense.

Sorry what? I couldn't decipher that first part. Regardless this is all irrelevant, kinetic or not it was still energy which Revan managed to absorb and reflect, showing his superiority to Nyriss on the same level if not greater than Yoda's superiority than Dooku - given the fact Dooku was not using his most potent form of lightining. Simply put, my argument laid out in post #380 still stands.

 

As for the confrontation between Nihilus and the Exile, you seem to be misremembering the events of KOTOR 2, allow me to remind you:

 

During his confrontation with the Exile, Marr, and Mandalore, Nihilus attempted to absorb Surik's Force energy, but failed and exhausted himself because of Surik's ability to draw on the Force energy of those around her. They engaged in a brief duel, with the Dark Lord seemingly too strong to defeat. Marr entered a trance and disrupted her link with her former Master, undermining his connection to the Force through their Force bond. This weakened Nihilus enough that the trio was able to kill him.

 

Nihilus was severely handicapped and even then the Exile could only defeat him through superior numbers.

 

And concerning Sidious lightning, Luke would have been protected by his Force barriers. That said, Sidious was torturing look and even when he amped up his power he was still deliberately prolonging Luke's death.

[tunewalker]

The Jedi weren't getting in his way, on one occasion one Jedi saved him from having his leg severed. If anything it was Caedus who was at a disadvantage as he had to micromanage three Jedi Knights while deflecting Katarn's attack, which he did with ease:

 

Katarn began the duel with a strike that Caedus easily deflected as he force pushed Hu'lya into Mithric. Katarn tried to strike Jacen again, but he dodged the blade and kicked Valin Horn in the chin. Katarn nearly kicked Jacen in the head but he managed to partially avoid it, catching a scrape on his cheek. Jacen retaliated by slashing at Katarn's leg, but his strike was blocked by Kolir.

 

Nowhere in that particular extract, which encompasses both of Katarn's attacks, does it seem to illustrate the Jedi getting in Katarn's way, but rather Caedus systematically batting away each of their attacks. If Katarn had been on his own, his attacks would have been dispelled with similar ease and Katarn would have been easily defeated.

 

The fact that Caedus managed to throw a speeder at Katarn without him realising doesn't exactly help his position.

 

Now I'm not sure how you reached the conclusion that Kyle fared better than Revan against Vitiate, as this is obviously not the case. Katarn failed to land a single hit on Caedus despite having three other Jedi as back-up. On the other hand Revan reflected Vitiate's lightning back at him, knocking him to the ground, and managed to absorb the full force of his most potent attack, albeit being overwhelmed after a short period.

 

Saying Vitiate did not consider Revan a threat is also untrue, as that duel prompted Revan to create a Voice. Did Caedus get all paranoid and try to prevent himself from being exposed again after his incident with Katarn? No, he laughed in their faces and proceeded to gut them all like children - literally reducing them to a fumbling mess.

Sorry what? I couldn't decipher that first part. Regardless this is all irrelevant, kinetic or not it was still energy which Revan managed to absorb and reflect, showing his superiority to Nyriss on the same level if not greater than Yoda's superiority than Dooku - given the fact Dooku was not using his most potent form of lightining. Simply put, my argument laid out in post #380 still stands.

 

As for the confrontation between Nihilus and the Exile, you seem to be misremembering the events of KOTOR 2, allow me to remind you:

 

During his confrontation with the Exile, Marr, and Mandalore, Nihilus attempted to absorb Surik's Force energy, but failed and exhausted himself because of Surik's ability to draw on the Force energy of those around her. They engaged in a brief duel, with the Dark Lord seemingly too strong to defeat. Marr entered a trance and disrupted her link with her former Master, undermining his connection to the Force through their Force bond. This weakened Nihilus enough that the trio was able to kill him.

 

Nihilus was severely handicapped and even then the Exile could only defeat him through superior numbers.

 

And concerning Sidious lightning, Luke would have been protected by his Force barriers. That said, Sidious was torturing look and even when he amped up his power he was still deliberately prolonging Luke's death.

 

That doesn't explain why vader wasn't instantly turned into ash and according to the ROTJ novel you are wrong with your analysis of what happened to Luke, Sidious wasn't holding back at all after he said and now you will die he was giving everthing.

 

Also Revan only fought Vitiate after achieving what can only be explained as oneness I linked that.... 3rd this conversation has moved so far passed this its not even funny beni.... you are behind.

[Beniboybling]

Edit: again honestly I think in our arguments for Saba and Revan we kind of determined the 2 are close in power without us actually discovering which is more powerful just that they would be within a couple percentages of each other so if Kyle is above Saba he is either right next to or a bit higher then Revan again Just splurging thoughts

I'm not sure who you are referring to (it must be me because I'm the only other who's being debating this) but this was not the conclusion I reached at all.

 

Here I reached the conclusion the the gap between Saba and Revan is larger than that of the gap between Nyriss and Revan - effectively substitute the combined strength of Scourge and Meetra with Saba.

 

And concerning Kyle, I don't feel there is any evidence at all to suggest he is more powerful than Revan, or more powerful than Thon or Satele for that matter. The enemies he has defeated have been fairly average dark siders, the event in which Katarn defeated 10 Sith Sabers doesn't seem to have ever happened and his duel with Caedus is inconclusive to say the least.

 

All we know if Katarn was on the Council, and I find it hard to believe he was considered second best as Kyp (who is demonstrability more powerful than Kyle) was on the Council at the same time, as was Jaina Solo.

[tunewalker]

I'm not sure who you are referring to (it must be me because I'm the only other who's being debating this) but this was not the conclusion I reached at all.

 

Here I reached the conclusion the the gap between Saba and Revan is larger than that of the gap between Nyriss and Revan - effectively substitute the combined strength of Scourge and Meetra with Saba.

 

And concerning Kyle, I don't feel there is any evidence at all to suggest he is more powerful than Revan, or more powerful than Thon or Satele for that matter. The enemies he has defeated have been fairly average dark siders, the event in which Katarn defeated 10 Sith Sabers doesn't seem to have ever happened and his duel with Caedus is inconclusive to say the least.

 

All we know if Katarn was on the Council, and I find it hard to believe he was considered second best as Kyp (who is demonstrability more powerful than Kyle) was on the Council at the same time, as was Jaina Solo.

 

YOU reached Both myself and Aurbere have contested that I can link you back to Aurbere post if you want me to just because you fail to understand how powerful Joiner Welk was does not mean other people did no you and revan fan boys are the only ones that have come to the conclusion that Saba was massively weaker then Revan. also

 

Exhibit A

 

Standing perfectly still after rising to his feet, the Emperor gathered his strength and unleashed a wave of energy that lifted Revan off his feet and threw him backwards, but the Jedi rolled to his feet and advanced again as the Emperor reached out with his mind. This time, Revan opened himself to the Force and allowed both the light and dark sides to flow through him before he released the Force in its purest form—an action that lit up the air between him and the Emperor and sent both of them flying. Recovering, Revan raced towards his enemy and deflected the Emperor's first bolt of lightning, though it stopped him in his tracks, and he proceed to knock the next aside, dodge the following bolt, and he deflected the final attack straight back at the Emperor. Angered, the Sith Lord gathered his strength and unleashed a massive storm of lightning at Revan, and the Jedi Master's attempts to absorb and contain the energy like before failed—the power of the attack overwhelmed him and sent electricity coursing through his body, boiling his skin and causing his mask to superheat on his burning face.[2]

 

 

Only by achieving oneness did Revan even stand up to vitiate until then its clear Vitiate was giving no effort at all to defeat Revan and only during that oneness did he reflect the lightning then Vitiate clearly amped it up and even with oneness Revan was still to weak (showing that even Revan's oneness wasn't that great). If you are asking what I am talking about with oneness well will highlight it here "Revan opened himself to the Force and allowed both the light and dark sides to flow through him before he released the Force in its purest form" ya if that's not a description of oneness I don't know what is.