Combat Logs are coming! Damage meters & analysis soon to follow!

[Battyone]

To play a game where you're forced into a spec to appease the controlling personality types.

 

Glad I am a tank.

 

Simple solution: do not play with those people, find casual raiders and do normal modes. It's basically tuned to be on par with the LFR system from WoW in difficulty, and is a great place for people who do not minmax to raid. Even hard modes should be doable suboptimal, and really only nightmare mode/semi-hardcore and hardcore and competitive guilds will be focusing hard on these logs. If you're in a casual/semi-casual guild and they're harping on your spec/rotation find another guild that guild is not casual/semi-casual.

 

Just don't expect to come in with some totally ineffective hybrid build and be a heavy contribution to success or failure.

 

Honest specs in this game are the most straightforward I've seen in ages, they might as well call the abilities "Tier 1 pvp ability 1" "Tier 1 pve ability 1" "Tier 1 passive boost", etc.

[TRONEON]

The problems comes when you have elitists ex wow type players thinking they know it all, and having disagreements on what is a "good" build and what is a "bad" build. Then they try to force that opinion onto others and tell them how they should play there character. Then they try to justify there epic arrogance with stats and damage meters they found from some random site....

 

Wow culture in Swtor....no thanks.

[The_Unternehmer]

Keep the phrase "tongue in cheek" in mind

 

Cpt Bioware: "Lt NoAddons, i want you to secure that village over there"

 

Lt No Addons: "Yes Sir! I will assemble my men, recon the enemy positions, probe for weakness, formulate and execute a plan of attack to secure the objective sir!"

 

Cpt Bioware: "Carry on soldier"

 

In walks Lt NeedsAddons......

 

Cpt Bioware: "Lt NeedsAddons, I want you to secure that enemy held hill over there."

 

Lt NeedsAddons: "Yes Sir, but first I will need tanks, artillery forward observers, Close Air Support, SAT recon pictures, signal intell and the kitchen sink from the battalion mess hall. This way I could also destroy the three forward bases the enemy has established in the region and interrupt their chain of command while taking that hill like you requested. And wash the dishes."

 

I took the liberty of counter-writing your tale

[Syluar]

The problems comes when you have elitists ex wow type players thinking they know it all, and having disagreements on what is a "good" build and what is a "bad" build. Then they try to force that opinion onto others and tell them how they should play there character. Then they try to justify there epic arrogance with stats and damage meters they found from some random site....

 

Wow culture in Swtor....no thanks.

 

So this is in your opinion world with demage meters yes? Because thats the topic we discuss here.

Keep in mind that the endgame of swtor is oriented on raiding just like wow so with combat log or without people will start to look for best builds and rotations on some random sites. Now the difference between having than not having demage meter is you can actualy prove them being wrong (if they are) by showing the numbers. So the point of idiots being arrogant with info from some ****y sites is actualy more adequate to situation without combat log in game.

 

And those "elitists ex wow type players" are already here - they're not being spawned just like that with introduction of combat log, realy. I'm certainly not going to force anybody play style I find the "only just" because I have no reason to do so. Unless it gets to being in raid. Because lets be honest: raiding isn't and shouldn't be easy and it forces some sort of "metagame". Metagame will always develop in preety much every game but it's not reason yet to force everyone follow it. But if one chooses not to do so and with this decision affects over a dozen different players one should realy rethink the very idea of raiding in mmos.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Syluar

[KithPine]

If they put combat logs in, which we sort of need, there will be combat parsers, this is fine, people who need that info will run with their out of game logs and parsers and come back to their raid meetings and adjust their strategies and all will be well with the SWTOR universe and most of this hubabalu will die out and be forgotten. If the combat parsers are socketed into the game this debate and argument will go on forever and ever.

[Ralaii]

I just read this up to page 14 and seriously had quite a few laughs at people who don't want damage meters.

 

How is knowing what is ACTUALLY going on around you ever a bad thing.

 

Make whatever excuses you want, but if you arent bad you will never have problems with combat metrics. Also, I have been waiting for a combat log for some time especially for pvp.

 

But then again I would say north of 70% of people are mouth breathing placeholders, who hold wrong/illogical or incorrect views on a lot of things (so naturally I would expect these people to be vocal in opposing combat meters, ignorant mode activated).

[KithPine]

But then again I would say north of 70% of people are mouth breathing placeholders, who hold wrong/illogical or incorrect views on a lot of things (so naturally I would expect these people to be vocal in opposing combat meters, ignorant mode activated).

 

Sturgeon's revelation applies to MMO players as well.

 

Yet remember you will often find yourself in that 90% some of the time.

[DonnieT]

You certainly can understand the argument against. Everyone wants to go to the big dance metaphorically speaking and it certainly is a lot easier when no one has proof of your perfomance based on skill or gear.

[Tirrallas]

I believe combat meters should be built into the UI, BUT I dont think they should be available to the average pug.

 

I think damage meters belong in a guild raiding environment to better your own performance in a safer environment.

 

I don't see the use of them in random pugs flashpoints where the data gathered is inconsistent and 90% of the time irrelevant.

 

Also have them present maybe in a training instance for your character where you can strike dummies.

Edited December 25, 2011 by Tirrallas

[DonnieT]

I believe combat meters should be built into the UI, BUT I dont think they should be available to the average pug.

 

I think damage meters belong in a guild raiding environment to better your own performance in a safer environment.

 

I don't see the use of them in random pugs flashpoints where the data gathered is inconsistent and 90% of the time irrelevant.

 

Also have them present maybe in a training instance for your character where you can strike dummies.

 

Well then you have to take away the ability to do pug heroics, because if not we need to have the ability to know who is doing terrible dps in encounters with enrage timers.

Edited December 25, 2011 by DonnieT

[Skeelol]

You certainly can understand the argument against. Everyone wants to go to the big dance metaphorically speaking and it certainly is a lot easier when no one has proof of your perfomance based on skill or gear.

 

Yet another way to put it.

[hostileseventeen]

I know a lot people don't like damage meters, and I can understand why. I think a good solution is only you can see your damage. This way you can see how you are doing and tighten up rotations and play with different specs, but won't get booted because some jerk doesn't like your DPS.

 

I understand some people do awful DPS and make things hard, but most people don't really hurt the group, it just takes a little longer to kill things.

[Battyone]

I know a lot people don't like damage meters, and I can understand why. I think a good solution is only you can see your damage. This way you can see how you are doing and tighten up rotations and play with different specs, but won't get booted because some jerk doesn't like your DPS.

 

I understand some people do awful DPS and make things hard, but most people don't really hurt the group, it just takes a little longer to kill things.

 

That approach is fine in dungeons, but once you get into bosses that have enrage timers, especially the tight ones at top tier raiding, then it falls a bit flat.

[DonnieT]

I know a lot people don't like damage meters, and I can understand why. I think a good solution is only you can see your damage. This way you can see how you are doing and tighten up rotations and play with different specs, but won't get booted because some jerk doesn't like your DPS.

 

I understand some people do awful DPS and make things hard, but most people don't really hurt the group, it just takes a little longer to kill things.

 

Most people don't really hurt the group, it just takes a little longer to kill things......

 

When your group can't beat a boss enrage timer because someone is doing terrible dps and you can't even get past the encounter, I think it's hurting your group. Taking a little longer is not an option.

Edited December 25, 2011 by DonnieT

[Ggregttt]

I don't think I've ever, ever heard of a guild that requires any mod. Raid teams, yes, guilds? No.

 

If you have never heard anything about this from any guild you do not know gaming at all.

[WarTornPanda]

How can the people that do NOT want damage meters actually think they are the majority? Have they even played other MMORPGs? Everyone uses them. Stop trying to push your ideals onto the masses.

[PaperClip]

That's cute but no.

 

If everyone else in the raid is doing considerably more dps than you are, the fact that the group succeeded is irrelevant to the fact that everybody put in more work than you did. And yet you think it's ok for you to get carried.

 

I have news for you, those builds that you hate so much... they are used because generally they work. If they weren't the most dps efficient people wouldn't be using them. You are more than welcome to play your own custom build, but if your dps is considerably less than where it should be for your gear levels then I'll ask you to make some changes. When you refuse I'll find someone to replace you. It's simply unfair to other players to ask them to carry you because you feel the need to be a unique butterfly.

 

This is exactly why I don't support DPS meters. Individuals use the meters to belittle other people. I keep seeing the word work used in many replies. The game should be about community and fun. When did it become work to enjoy something that was intended to be fun?

 

Comments like "I'll find someone to replace you" if you don't conform is utter BS. This type of attitude will only lead to stress and that is not FUN. Most individuals already have a job/career.

 

SWTOR should be not a second job that I pay to play.

[Morcova]

One step closer to WoW, one step closer to fail.

 

You can spot the people whose first mmo was wow by comments like this.

 

Sorry guy but hell even EQ had combat logs and damage meters. It's nothing new.

[hostileseventeen]

Most people don't really hurt the group, it just takes a little longer to kill things......

 

When your group can't beat a boss enrage timer because someone is doing terrible dps and you can't even get past the encounter, I think it's hurting your group. Taking a little longer is not an option.

 

I understand your point, but in a 25-man one guy pulling low DPS shouldn't make a big difference, and if he does, you're not giving yourself much room to play with if something goes wrong. Heck, even if a 10-man you are usually fine if someone is a little low. Granted if someone is really bad, it can make a difference, but most people who make a big deal, are complaining about someone doing like 10-20% less DPS.

[DonnieT]

This is exactly why I don't support DPS meters. Individuals use the meters to belittle other people. I keep seeing the word work used in many replies. The game should be about community and fun. When did it become work to enjoy something that was intended to be fun?

 

Comments like "I'll find someone to replace you" if you don't conform is utter BS. This type of attitude will only lead to stress and that is not FUN. Most individuals already have a job/career.

 

SWTOR should be not a second job that I pay to play.

 

The majority of guilds out there are for people who have a job as you say it and a life as you imply it, serious raiding guilds that will insist you perform to a certain standard of dps are not the majortiy.

[DonnieT]

I understand your point, but in a 25-man one guy pulling low DPS shouldn't make a big difference, and if he does, you're not giving yourself much room to play with if something goes wrong. Heck, even if a 10-man you are usually fine if someone is a little low. Granted if someone is really bad, it can make a difference, but most people who make a big deal, are complaining about someone doing like 10-20% less DPS.

 

not 25 man. 4 man heroic, where one person makes all the difference in the world

[WarTornPanda]

This is exactly why I don't support DPS meters. Individuals use the meters to belittle other people. I keep seeing the word work used in many replies. The game should be about community and fun. When did it become work to enjoy something that was intended to be fun?

 

Comments like "I'll find someone to replace you" if you don't conform is utter BS. This type of attitude will only lead to stress and that is not FUN. Most individuals already have a job/career.

 

SWTOR should be not a second job that I pay to play.

 

I love the "I-have-a-life-so-that's-why-I-suck-at-video-games" excuse.

[Battyone]

 

I'll just leave this here.

[Ralaii]

This is exactly why I don't support DPS meters. Individuals use the meters to belittle other people. I keep seeing the word work used in many replies. The game should be about community and fun. When did it become work to enjoy something that was intended to be fun?

 

Comments like "I'll find someone to replace you" if you don't conform is utter BS. This type of attitude will only lead to stress and that is not FUN. Most individuals already have a job/career.

 

SWTOR should be not a second job that I pay to play.

 

Awesome, you should go play a game with absolutely no intelligence required, it sounds like you would have a blast at that since you think trying at something is work.

 

And guess what, to defeat a difficult end game raid, people need to try.

 

Combat meters illuminate who is trying and who is not.

 

If you really really dont want people to know how much dps you do, then difficult end game raids isnt for you, ill point you over to angry birds (unless thats too much work for you).

 

If you think swtor is work, god help your soul.

[Kamen_Jorus]

Sorry to hijacking a thread but I'm lacking the text box to start my own... the majority of the text in game is so small I cannot read it, is there a way to adjust the text size?