Logic behind Bolster... Please Remove From EndGame PvP.

[Elogio]

This is an attempt to get the PvP developers to answer a simple question and get them to remove Bolster COMPLETELY from Ranked Warzones. It is extremely clear that the developers will not remove bolster from PvP but at least we, the subscription paying PvPers, have the right to experience Engame PvP without the hassle that bolster only brings.

It is preponderant for the developers of this game to understand that Ranked Warzone PvPers are PAYING subscribers, and as things are right now, we are paying for a product that's broken, to say the least.

 

With the context set forth...

 

Why is there bolster in EndGame PvP (Ranked Warzones)?

Could you please remove it from EndGame PvP (Ranked Warzones) as soon as possible?

 

I am not going to threaten you by saying I will unsubscribe; sadly, and as you are pretty well aware, there are no options for PvPers as it is right now, we are stuck (and I really mean stuck) with SWtOR until something better comes out. Truth is, we are not even looking for something better, but a game with developers that care about their PvP community will win us all.

 

Please, bump this thread by signing this petition. It's nothing out of the extraordinary. A simple question followed by another simple questions that requires action.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Elogio

[Kieferh]

I agree, the main reason I play MMOs such as SWTOR is the enjoyment derived from improving my gear and stats, and the anticipation from working towards that goal. I have seen some players argue on these forums that bolster makes pvp more fun and competitive and there is nothing wrong with it. I can understand their argument that bolster makes it easier for some players to compete in pvp but I believe bolster removes one of the major elements that makes SWTOR pvp enjoyable. It completely removes any element of progression.

 

I hope the developers do listen to us on this matter. To achieve that I think it would be helpful for people to avoid making personal criticisms of the developers dedication to maintaining and improving SWTOR.

[Herbzta]

I agree, the main reason I play MMOs such as SWTOR is the enjoyment derived from improving my gear and stats, and the anticipation from working towards that goal. I have seen some players argue on these forums that bolster makes pvp more fun and competitive and there is nothing wrong with it. I can understand their argument that bolster makes it easier for some players to compete in pvp but I believe bolster removes one of the major elements that makes SWTOR pvp enjoyable. It completely removes any element of progression.

 

I hope the developers do listen to us on this matter. To achieve that I think it would be helpful for people to avoid making personal criticisms of the developers dedication to maintaining and improving SWTOR.

 

i totally agree

[JackNader]

Bolster is a good idea and it is desperately needed. They've just done a horrendous job of it.

[TechTheHic]

I agree, the main reason I play MMOs such as SWTOR is the enjoyment derived from improving my gear and stats, and the anticipation from working towards that goal. I have seen some players argue on these forums that bolster makes pvp more fun and competitive and there is nothing wrong with it. I can understand their argument that bolster makes it easier for some players to compete in pvp but I believe bolster removes one of the major elements that makes SWTOR pvp enjoyable. It completely removes any element of progression.

 

I hope the developers do listen to us on this matter. To achieve that I think it would be helpful for people to avoid making personal criticisms of the developers dedication to maintaining and improving SWTOR.

 

I agree with this. It's what useed set an MMO apart from the other games in that I could progress my character. Now; it seems that first person shooters have more progression than this. I am ok with a bolster to keep people at least close, but there still should be some sort of meaningfull goal to be working toward.

[Elogio]

I agree with this. It's what useed set an MMO apart from the other games in that I could progress my character. Now; it seems that first person shooters have more progression than this. I am ok with a bolster to keep people at least close, but there still should be some sort of meaningfull goal to be working toward.

 

I agree.

 

If they don't want to remove it from the game, at least they should remove it from EndGame PvP.

 

I hope they do answer to the questions.

"Why is there bolster in EndGame PvP (Ranked Warzones)?

Could you please remove it from EndGame PvP (Ranked Warzones) as soon as possible?"

[TechTheHic]

I agree.

 

If they don't want to remove it from the game, at least they should remove it from EndGame PvP.

 

I hope they do answer to the questions.

"Why is there bolster in EndGame PvP (Ranked Warzones)?

Could you please remove it from EndGame PvP (Ranked Warzones) as soon as possible?"

 

At this point, I think they would almost have to at least have it in some form at "end game" PvP if you consider regulars end game. Just due to the fact that there are people who do expect a baseline minimum stats on their level 55 going into a warzone. they could go back to a recruit system, but it seems that is not an option for their reasons they mentioned about recruit providing more advantage than their baseline PvE gear.

 

That said; ranked should have no outside assistance such as bolster; and while it sounds like bolster is getting better about not making non-pvp gear as good as top tier pvp gear, it still needs a little bit more of a tweak as to not be as good as the 2nd highest tier of PvP gear. Stil think it should not be raising stats, but rather just setting stats hard if you are not wearing PvP gear to eliminate unnecessary calculations.

Edited June 26, 2013 by TechTheHic

[DariusCalera]

Why is there bolster in EndGame PvP (Ranked Warzones)?

Could you please remove it from EndGame PvP (Ranked Warzones) as soon as possible?

 

As to why, specifically, it is in RWZs I can't say but the reason that bolster was implemented at all was because of bads and there is no other way to label them.

 

BW stated that the reason it was implemented was because people were either:

 

1: Getting their free recruit gear, selling it, then trying to PvP.

 

or

 

2: Getting their free recruit gear and then listening to other bads who told them that Tioneese/Columi/Rakata gear was better for PvP and so they didn't wear the recruit gear.

 

In either case, they got melted pretty quickly.

 

As to when they will remove it from RWZs? Who knows, probably never.

[Jarfunkz]

I agree with this for the most part. Except that there are not two relic that are good for dps. The chance to do 2-300 more damage every 4.5 seconds is retarded. Defensive does not have that issue, it has absorption, shield chance, and defense that do overlap. I say Buff the final relics you make from shards.

[Elagia]

i agree:p

[DuskSage]

This is an attempt to get the PvP developers to answer a simple question and get them to remove Bolster COMPLETELY from Ranked Warzones. It is extremely clear that the developers will not remove bolster from PvP but at least we, the subscription paying PvPers, have the right to experience Engame PvP without the hassle that bolster only brings.

It is preponderant for the developers of this game to understand that Ranked Warzone PvPers are PAYING subscribers, and as things are right now, we are paying for a product that's broken, to say the least.

 

With the context set forth...

 

Why is there bolster in EndGame PvP (Ranked Warzones)?

Could you please remove it from EndGame PvP (Ranked Warzones) as soon as possible?

 

I am not going to threaten you by saying I will unsubscribe; sadly, and as you are pretty well aware, there are no options for PvPers as it is right now, we are stuck (and I really mean stuck) with SWtOR until something better comes out. Truth is, we are not even looking for something better, but a game with developers that care about their PvP community will win us all.

 

Please, bump this thread by signing this petition. It's nothing out of the extraordinary. A simple question followed by another simple questions that requires action.

 

I agree, please remove bolster from ranked warzones

[Ashal]

As to why, specifically, it is in RWZs I can't say but the reason that bolster was implemented at all was because of bads and there is no other way to label them.

 

BW stated that the reason it was implemented was because people were either:

 

1: Getting their free recruit gear, selling it, then trying to PvP.

 

or

 

2: Getting their free recruit gear and then listening to other bads who told them that Tioneese/Columi/Rakata gear was better for PvP and so they didn't wear the recruit gear.

In either case, they got melted pretty quickly.

 

As to when they will remove it from RWZs? Who knows, probably never.

 

The funny thing is, now PVE gear IS the best in PVP.

Edited June 29, 2013 by Ashal

[Narthil]

Agreed. Please remove.

[kweassa]

Disagreed. Those who want bolster removed are near-sighted and misinformed.

 

Bolster benefits a large player base, and acts as a remedy to the (excessively) painstaking process of end-game PvP for the "new guys" at the starting line.

 

Claiming bolster needs to removed to resolve a mere 2~3% superiority to Partisan (and 2~3% inferiority to Conqueror), is simply going blind to the reality that people at the start line would face performance gaps that easily exceeds at least 10% against partially-geared opponents, and easily over 20% for anyone even in full Partisan.

 

 

Why did people sell their recruit gear? It is because the recruit gear was so hopelessly undermatched against even Battlemaster level gear, that people were advised to to sell it, and use that money to get higher performing PvE gear/modifications as they first enter lv50 PvP.

 

You want the vast majority of people to go back to the days where they would be considered worthless and needless to the team, would fall dead if someone in WH or EWH grade gear even sneezed at them? To take on the grueling first-tier PvP gear grind for weeks and months, until they finally arrive at BM grade gear just to be considered 'competent' in the lowest sense of the word? The days when half of what's posted in this forum were requests and complaints that the gear grinding at end-game PvP is the most horrible experience in the entire SWTOR experience?

 

People actually ASKED for bolster to be implemented at endgame PvP, in those days.

[Kegparty]

Disagreed. Those who want bolster removed are near-sighted and misinformed.

 

Maybe those people would feel better if we had some sort of guidelines... like before wasting 200k on an augment

 

Perhaps.. I don't know... math? Some sort of system? An ability to see bolster without having to sit AFK in a warzone

[Narthil]

Disagreed. Those who want bolster removed are near-sighted and misinformed.

 

Bolster benefits a large player base, and acts as a remedy to the (excessively) painstaking process of end-game PvP for the "new guys" at the starting line.

 

Claiming bolster needs to removed to resolve a mere 2~3% superiority to Partisan (and 2~3% inferiority to Conqueror), is simply going blind to the reality that people at the start line would face performance gaps that easily exceeds at least 10% against partially-geared opponents, and easily over 20% for anyone even in full Partisan.

 

 

Why did people sell their recruit gear? It is because the recruit gear was so hopelessly undermatched against even Battlemaster level gear, that people were advised to to sell it, and use that money to get higher performing PvE gear/modifications as they first enter lv50 PvP.

 

You want the vast majority of people to go back to the days where they would be considered worthless and needless to the team, would fall dead if someone in WH or EWH grade gear even sneezed at them? To take on the grueling first-tier PvP gear grind for weeks and months, until they finally arrive at BM grade gear just to be considered 'competent' in the lowest sense of the word? The days when half of what's posted in this forum were requests and complaints that the gear grinding at end-game PvP is the most horrible experience in the entire SWTOR experience?

 

People actually ASKED for bolster to be implemented at endgame PvP, in those days.

 

It's not 2%-3%, with the correct 54 gear setup (mix of 54 and conq), it's FAR superior to even max/min conqueror.

 

Which is why I agree with the removal of bolster in 55.

 

Half a year and it's still broken, that indicates it cannot be fixed.

[DariusCalera]

Disagreed. Those who want bolster removed are near-sighted and misinformed.

 

Bolster benefits a large player base, and acts as a remedy to the (excessively) painstaking process of end-game PvP for the "new guys" at the starting line.

 

55 PvP is not the "starting line", it is the finish line. As many people have pointed out, in numerous threads, that anyone that waits to enter PvP until 55 is going to get stomped. There really is no amount of bolster that is going to change that.

 

The process of acquiring Partisan gear is extremely easy and quite doable if a person starts PvPing at level 40 when they can start converting regular comms into ranked ones.

 

Claiming bolster needs to removed to resolve a mere 2~3% superiority to Partisan (and 2~3% inferiority to Conqueror), is simply going blind to the reality that people at the start line would face performance gaps that easily exceeds at least 10% against partially-geared opponents, and easily over 20% for anyone even in full Partisan.

 

Those gaps would be nonexistent if players used the mechanics that were actually in the game instead of relying on a system that is not well defined, or explained, to a good portion of the player base. New players aren't going to understand it, heck, there are veteran players that don't understand how it works.

 

Why did people sell their recruit gear? It is because the recruit gear was so hopelessly undermatched against even Battlemaster level gear, that people were advised to to sell it, and use that money to get higher performing PvE gear/modifications as they first enter lv50 PvP.

 

They sold their recruit gear because they listened to people that did not know what they were talking about. Just like those commandos that used to dress in tanking gear to survive longer did so because they listened to someone that did not know any better.

 

The recruit gear was vastly superior for PvP than the PvE gear that was obtainable by new players. It was not until a player started to obtain Blackhole and Campaign level gear that the PvE gear started to outstrip the recruit gear for PvP because of the Expertise.

 

You want the vast majority of people to go back to the days where they would be considered worthless and needless to the team, would fall dead if someone in WH or EWH grade gear even sneezed at them? To take on the grueling first-tier PvP gear grind for weeks and months, until they finally arrive at BM grade gear just to be considered 'competent' in the lowest sense of the word? The days when half of what's posted in this forum were requests and complaints that the gear grinding at end-game PvP is the most horrible experience in the entire SWTOR experience?

 

People actually ASKED for bolster to be implemented at endgame PvP, in those days.

 

That gear grind was pretty much done away with pre 2.0. The jump from Recruit Mk.2 to WH could be pretty quickly and easily if a player was willing to work at it. Then a player could, if they wanted to, then work on min/maxing that WH gear and still only be a few points behind someone in min/maxed EWH gear.

 

No one asked for a system that was overly complex and non understandable to new players in PvP.

[Jadescythe]

I'll be honest, if you are a proponent of taking bolster out of ranked PvP, you better have another solution in hand. Or else be willing to grind out NiM TFB/S&V for the main/off hands. Because right now, bolster is what is keeping the barrels/hilts/armorings from being BiS for the highest damage.

[sanchito]

Disagreed. Those who want bolster removed are near-sighted and misinformed.

 

....

 

There are very good reason to have bolster. However, can you name one single good reason why we should have it in ranked?

[PloGreen]

Disagreed. Those who want bolster removed are near-sighted and misinformed.

 

Bolster benefits a large player base, and acts as a remedy to the (excessively) painstaking process of end-game PvP for the "new guys" at the starting line.

 

Claiming bolster needs to removed to resolve a mere 2~3% superiority to Partisan (and 2~3% inferiority to Conqueror), is simply going blind to the reality that people at the start line would face performance gaps that easily exceeds at least 10% against partially-geared opponents, and easily over 20% for anyone even in full Partisan.

 

 

Why did people sell their recruit gear? It is because the recruit gear was so hopelessly undermatched against even Battlemaster level gear, that people were advised to to sell it, and use that money to get higher performing PvE gear/modifications as they first enter lv50 PvP.

 

You want the vast majority of people to go back to the days where they would be considered worthless and needless to the team, would fall dead if someone in WH or EWH grade gear even sneezed at them? To take on the grueling first-tier PvP gear grind for weeks and months, until they finally arrive at BM grade gear just to be considered 'competent' in the lowest sense of the word? The days when half of what's posted in this forum were requests and complaints that the gear grinding at end-game PvP is the most horrible experience in the entire SWTOR experience?

 

People actually ASKED for bolster to be implemented at endgame PvP, in those days.

 

No one is claiming anything. They are simply asking for bolster to removed from ranked. I support this 100%.

 

Bolster is just a mess, it might make things a little easier for the newbies, or players that stuggle but it is exploitable, hard to understand and has no place in competitive ranked warzones. There are also players out there that enjoy min-maxing and progression.

 

I commend Bioware for making bold decisions with regards to bolster, I just don't think it works for ranked, I'm on the fence with it in normals but like one person has mentioned in this thread - it's far too complex for the average player to wrap their heads around.

[MiaRB]

There are very good reason to have bolster. However, can you name one single good reason why we should have it in ranked?

 

min/maxed top PVP gear is > than all PVE gear so what exactly are you complaining about? how is ranked affected at all?

[MahneWarrior]

Disagreed. Those who want bolster removed are near-sighted and misinformed.

 

Bolster benefits a large player base, and acts as a remedy to the (excessively) painstaking process of end-game PvP for the "new guys" at the starting line.

 

Claiming bolster needs to removed to resolve a mere 2~3% superiority to Partisan (and 2~3% inferiority to Conqueror), is simply going blind to the reality that people at the start line would face performance gaps that easily exceeds at least 10% against partially-geared opponents, and easily over 20% for anyone even in full Partisan.

 

 

Why did people sell their recruit gear? It is because the recruit gear was so hopelessly undermatched against even Battlemaster level gear, that people were advised to to sell it, and use that money to get higher performing PvE gear/modifications as they first enter lv50 PvP.

 

You want the vast majority of people to go back to the days where they would be considered worthless and needless to the team, would fall dead if someone in WH or EWH grade gear even sneezed at them? To take on the grueling first-tier PvP gear grind for weeks and months, until they finally arrive at BM grade gear just to be considered 'competent' in the lowest sense of the word? The days when half of what's posted in this forum were requests and complaints that the gear grinding at end-game PvP is the most horrible experience in the entire SWTOR experience?

 

People actually ASKED for bolster to be implemented at endgame PvP, in those days.

 

I think you are missing the point, Bolster in Regs is fine, bolster in ranked is silly. Remove from ranked, not regs

[sanchito]

min/maxed top PVP gear is > than all PVE gear so what exactly are you complaining about? how is ranked affected at all?

 

1) it's very difficult to min max, because you only see your actual stats in a wz, top level pvp gear is bolstered as well

2) This has been fixed only in the last patch, after it was broken for several months. There was huge confusion about which guild were using what kind of gear and how you should react to it

3) It's not actually that clear if it really is BiS now( http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=654222 )

4) Everytime a new pve set comes out (as in now, with kell dragon) people will start to experiment again, and with Biowares track record how confident are you that pvp gear will remain BiS?

Edited July 1, 2013 by sanchito

[Jadescythe]

1) it's very difficult to min max, because you only see your actual stats in a wz, top level pvp gear is bolstered as well

2) This has been fixed only in the last patch, after it was broken for several months. There was huge confusion about which guild were using what kind of gear and how you should react to it

3) It's not actually that clear if it really is BiS now( http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=654222 )

4) Everytime a new pve set comes out (as in now, with kell dragon) people will start to experiment again, and with Biowares track record how confident are you that pvp gear will remain BiS?

 

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the only bolster you get on PvP gear is to up the damage rating to equal the top tier gear that is out. Not an actual stat increase.

[sanchito]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but I believe the only bolster you get on PvP gear is to up the damage rating to equal the top tier gear that is out. Not an actual stat increase.

fair enough i remember getting tank stats in dps gear when i switched to tank stance but that was not with full pvp gear.

Edited July 1, 2013 by sanchito