Let's Not Allow Vanity To Be Cynical !

[Myriandore]

Hi Community

 

So, even as a subscriber I must use (i.e. buy with hard cash) cartel coins to use the appearance designer.

 

I found the notion pushy when bw did that for adaptive gear but said nothing; I can appreciate they're running a business after all.

But this! ... Just feels like plain filthy greed - taking ppl for fools and pisses me off.

To me, a sub should have access to ALL. You can spin it whichever way you want to make it appear we do, fact is we simply don't.

 

Ye ye I know. Quit if you don't like it, etc... But tbh I really enjoy this game. I rode the bugs tsunami wave like everyone of you peeps and I reckon our input can help improve this game.

 

Wish bw returned to the drawing board and realised that commercially it's NOT unreasonable to allow subscribers both options - paying with credits OR cartel coins.

 

Look at it this way, each time a sub (i.e. moi) hits the cartel coin wall, it triggers re-thinking the worth of playing this game.

 

Thx for the read bb )

[psandak]

Maybe it's just me, but as a sub I never hit the CM wall. We get a monthly allotment of CCs and in my experience that allotment is more than enough to get whatever look I am going for. Furthermore, 95% of what's available on the CM is available on the GTM for credits. Yes, one CM item can run into the multiple millions on the GTM, but that's the price you pay for wanting a VERY specific look.

 

I just do not see the problem.

Edited June 26, 2013 by psandak

[Myriandore]

You read me alright.

If you can't get what I'm getting at, not much more I can say to make you see the light mate.

[SteelPiranha]

What is a Cartel Coin wall?

[psandak]

You read me alright.

If you can't get what I'm getting at, not much more I can say to make you see the light mate.

 

Sorry, I misread what you were saying. I thought you were talking gear appearance when in fact you were talking about the "appearance editor." That being the case, let me re-phrase...

 

Was I upset that the appearance station was CC based? Yes. I was playing WoW when that game's barber shop was introduced and it was in-game money based (it cost you gold to change your appearance not dollars). And I would have preferred that SWTOR employed a similar system.

 

Did I care enough to fret over the situation? No. The way I figured it was that #1 players have plenty of opportunity to select an appearance when they create the character; if a player just randomizes and goes, IMO that's their fault not EA/BW and #2 if a player is really that interested in opening more appearance options, they can either save their monthly stipend until they have enough to acquire the appearance they want, or they can spend real money now. Just another example of how time and money are interchangeable resources.

[Myriandore]

I don't discuss the value of whether you agree or not with my views mate; right or wrong I simply express mine.

Nor do I discuss the virtues of managing one's own allowances.

 

I too used to play wow, but I'm not drawing any comparisons here either.

To paraphrase you, I already spend real money now. In my subscription. That in itself should "by principle" open ALL the game features.

 

Yes, I'm talking about principles here.

 

I can't help but picture the comparative features table we've all seen. Left column f2p | Right column subscriber. Remember how it looks?

Left column IMPLIES f2p have access to very little; where Right column IMPLIES that if you pay for a subscription you have access to every feature.

 

Now imagine my surprise to realise that despite paying a monthly fee, I can't even have access to a basic feature unless I spend more real cash on top of my subscription.

 

I can't help but feel cheated by this sales / marketing gimmick.

Simple.

[AlexDougherty]

Hi Community

 

So, even as a subscriber I must use (i.e. buy with hard cash) cartel coins to use the appearance designer.

 

I found the notion pushy when bw did that for adaptive gear but said nothing; I can appreciate they're running a business after all.

But this! ... Just feels like plain filthy greed - taking ppl for fools and pisses me off.

To me, a sub should have access to ALL. You can spin it whichever way you want to make it appear we do, fact is we simply don't.

We do have ACCESS, it's just not free, it's a vanity thing, if you want to change a character for free, create a new character, if you want to change the tattooes or scars or race, and don't want to start over then pay. Personally I like the looks I create when I start, so I don't want to change them.

 

Ye ye I know. Quit if you don't like it, etc... But tbh I really enjoy this game. I rode the bugs tsunami wave like everyone of you peeps and I reckon our input can help improve this game.

 

Wish bw returned to the drawing board and realised that commercially it's NOT unreasonable to allow subscribers both options - paying with credits OR cartel coins.

 

Look at it this way, each time a sub (i.e. moi) hits the cartel coin wall, it triggers re-thinking the worth of playing this game.

 

Thx for the read bb )

 

I get were you are coming from, but this is just for vanity, like the name changes, it's not important, unlike fixing the bugs (some of which have been there since the beginning). Personally I save my coins for decent things, like a 900cc orange crystal that gives some HP to my Consular, mail and GTN on my ship, and of course rocket boots (great for starter planets), but I have been tempted by the packs once or twice. If the Cartel Coins is that big an issue you might want to splurge out on them occassionally (with cash).

[psandak]

I don't discuss the value of whether you agree or not with my views mate; right or wrong I simply express mine.

Nor do I discuss the virtues of managing one's own allowances.

 

I too used to play wow, but I'm not drawing any comparisons here either.

To paraphrase you, I already spend real money now. In my subscription. That in itself should "by principle" open ALL the game features.

 

Yes, I'm talking about principles here.

 

I can't help but picture the comparative features table we've all seen. Left column f2p | Right column subscriber. Remember how it looks?

Left column IMPLIES f2p have access to very little; where Right column IMPLIES that if you pay for a subscription you have access to every feature.

 

Now imagine my surprise to realise that despite paying a monthly fee, I can't even have access to a basic feature unless I spend more real cash on top of my subscription.

 

I can't help but feel cheated by this sales / marketing gimmick.

Simple.

 

What did you expect to get when you posted your assessment and your opinions? Debate is part and parcel of forum activity. If you did not want debate, then why did you post in the first place?

 

And taking a cue from you, your assessment of what a "basic feature" is, is wrong. I'm sorry to have to put it so bluntly, but the features you want to be basic are not. "Basic features" related to appearance come in the form of:

 

- character creation (you have ample opportunity to come up with a physical appearance that you like)

- crafted custom shells and comms purchased gear (there is a LOT of choice when it comes to what one wears)

- and the newly added dye system and crafted dyes (yes the combinations are limited)

 

In addition to those "basic features," which subscribers have a LOT more options than F2P:

 

- access to more diverse races for each class and physical appearances to choose from

- access to purple quality gear must be unlocked for F2P

 

...there are "advanced features" which are only available through the use of the CM. With CCs you can access:

 

- even more physical appearance options

- even more custom shells

- and a wider selection of dyes.

 

Based on what you've said here, your opinion is that those "advanced features" should be "basic features." Sorry but EA/BW disagrees and I completely understand why.

 

Now you have a decision to make: are these features not being basic a deal-breaker? If they are a deal-breaker then say so with your wallet; unsubscribe and stop playing.

[Propecius]

FWIW I kind of agree with the OP. It seems the only thing subscription gets you is more character slots and fleet passes. (OK there are other things, too, but not many, IMHO. And few that you can't buy for coins now.) Subscribers aren't really treated much better in the game than F2P players. I would think subscribers, with their automatic payment renewals and somewhat-guaranteed revenue stream, would be cut some slack from the cartel market money-grubbing.

 

Considering the base rate for subscription is $15/month, I would expect more perks for being a subscriber. As it is, I'm kind of leaning toward moving to the F2P model, on a sheer cost/benefit analysis. (Coins can be bought for 90-137.5 coins/dollar, depending on quantity. At those rates, and if you get 600 free coins/month, you're only getting $4-7 worth of free coins for your monthly sub cost.) If I'm going to need to buy stuff in the CM anyway, I might be able to get away with spending less on coins than I currently spend on subscription fees. Heck, I guess one could even set up multiple F2P accounts if one wanted more then 2 character slots.

 

These are just my impressions. Obviously others disagree. But I think the OP has a good point. I, for one, don't feel like my subscription is as valued by EA/BW as my Cartel Coins. That doesn't really build customer loyalty or make me want to keep subscribing.

 

I guess I'm just saying that, comparing the money spent, subscribers don't seem to be getting as much bang for the buck as F2Pers. And that business model seems kind of backwards.

[psandak]

FWIW I kind of agree with the OP. It seems the only thing subscription gets you is more character slots and fleet passes. (OK there are other things, too, but not many, IMHO. And few that you can't buy for coins now.) Subscribers aren't really treated much better in the game than F2P players. I would think subscribers, with their automatic payment renewals and somewhat-guaranteed revenue stream, would be cut some slack from the cartel market money-grubbing.

 

Considering the base rate for subscription is $15/month, I would expect more perks for being a subscriber. As it is, I'm kind of leaning toward moving to the F2P model, on a sheer cost/benefit analysis. (Coins can be bought for 90-137.5 coins/dollar, depending on quantity. At those rates, and if you get 600 free coins/month, you're only getting $4-7 worth of free coins for your monthly sub cost.) If I'm going to need to buy stuff in the CM anyway, I might be able to get away with spending less on coins than I currently spend on subscription fees. Heck, I guess one could even set up multiple F2P accounts if one wanted more then 2 character slots.

 

These are just my impressions. Obviously others disagree. But I think the OP has a good point. I, for one, don't feel like my subscription is as valued by EA/BW as my Cartel Coins. That doesn't really build customer loyalty or make me want to keep subscribing.

 

I guess I'm just saying that, comparing the money spent, subscribers don't seem to be getting as much bang for the buck as F2Pers. And that business model seems kind of backwards.

 

But that's the rub: a subscriber never NEEDS to buy anything off the CM; EVERYTHING on the CM is optional to a subscriber (no more than vanity items and fluff). Personally, since release I have bought half a dozen packs, three chest pieces, and one complete set of armor having NEVER added a single penny to my $15/month subscription (and I currently have about 1000CCs).

 

That being said, you are absolutely right. From a cost benefit/ROI standpoint, for a LOT of players, F2P is cheaper...long term vs short term is debatable. There were several analyses when F2P came out - depending on what you do and how often you do it, the average subscriber could go preferred and spend on average $10-$12 a month paying for CCs and using unlocks when wanted/needed.

 

The unwritten/not mentioned often enough advantage for subscribers is peace of mind - knowing that whenever you log in to the game you can do whatever you want whenever you want and never have to concern yourself with those "Aw crap, I need to unlock X" moments.

Edited June 28, 2013 by psandak

[Jrea]

Agreed. Every update is a little less Bioware and a little more EA.

[Myriandore]

Amazing stuff. It's as if you're missing the ONE point I make on purpose.

No idea where you got the idea I'm debating the notion of worth between vanity features and whatever else this game has to offer. In my book it's a lot more simple than that.

 

I see it as unethical to paint subscribers as enjoying all this game has to offer. When in fact there are in this game features even us subs have to pay EXTRA for.

 

Be my guest, go ahead and re-read that post - you'll see this is the essence of what I actually said.

I also say that subs getting the 2 options - to either pay using cartel coins or credits (same as for char perks) would TRULY mean having access to all features.

 

It's not about the quantity / utility I get, it's about the principle of not spinning a cynical farce into a sale.

[Myriandore]

The unwritten/not mentioned often enough advantage for subscribers is peace of mind - knowing that whenever you log in to the game you can do whatever you want whenever you want and never have to concern yourself with those "Aw crap, I need to unlock X" moments.

Very well put.

[shonenjumpstyle]

I think that everything in the appearance designer should be purchasable with credits for subs, but if you unlock a new race (one not available at character creation for that particular class) it would take cartel coins. And for those who don't want to pay with cartel coins, they can always buy race unlocks from the GTN