1800cc per character for transfer?

[Andryah]

Absolutely. Rift/Trion didn't have a choice. Well, I mean technically, they always had a choice...but they didn't REALLY have that option if they valued the remaining population of their game.

.

 

/Agree.

 

I played Rift from launch to late in the year. At that time... F2P was still a question mark as a business model in the industry AND Rift management was dead set against it at that time.

 

So they did the only thing they could do in lieu of changing their business model (which Turbine by the way had proven was a valid solution to game population declines).....they gave players free transfers. It worked as it consolidated player characters and kept players interested. If they had made them paid transfers, they would have collapsed.

 

Bioware took a different approach to declining server populations. They consolidated servers in the classic manner of developer driven approach, followed later by changing their business model. Then later, listening to the player base (most of which said... please... please... I'll pay for the option), they put in paid transfers as of this patch.

 

Two different companies, facing significant collapse in subscriptions (in fact their attrition curves are almost identical over time, relative to the calendar points in time and their subscription scales) took different approaches. As to which is better for the player base... meh.... the both have pros and cons. Rift if free.. but it effectively destroys server community, accountability, and loyalty. SWTOR is classic fee for service, and all the known stability factors that come with it

[Mike_Bluesky]

Rift if free.. but it effectively destroys server community, accountability, and loyalty. SWTOR is classic fee for service, and all the known stability factors that come with it

 

I don't think it would destroy community, accountability and loyalty in SWTOR if they would make free transfers for week or two and then put the price tag on it. It would solve problems for many and they still would get back costs of developing this feature.

[Kattelox]

We are way past dead servers, and during the great server merges of 2012...most players found their characters largely consolidated for them. The visible exception appears to be PvP players that continued to server hop looking for the "perfect" PvP. That's on them. Impatience breeds bad choices.. doubly so for MMO PvP players IMO.

 

I think the PVP player base have declared POT5 to be their promised land. I know most of the PVP guilds on TEH jumped ship to go there yesterday. Hopefully they have found the grass to be greener.

 

Anyway, I sorta agree that the current pricing for transfers is a bit rough but, to be fair, it is basically a harsh deal on any MMO. It would be great if BW implemented something where subs get 1 free character transfer per month (or even three months) but I doubt that will happen.

[Nyaara]

 

I played Rift from launch to late in the year. At that time... F2P was still a question mark as a business model in the industry AND Rift management was dead set against it at that time.

 

So they did the only thing they could do in lieu of changing their business model (which Turbine by the way had proven was a valid solution to game population declines).....they gave players free transfers. It worked as it consolidated player characters and kept players interested. If they had made them paid transfers, they would have collapsed. t

 

Then you should know that server transfers came with 1.3, early summer, just a few months after the release. And if you played that game, you should know that when the free transfers came, the game was running quite well with good population. F2P came 2 years after that.

 

And iirc, any customer was able to transfer for free once a week. For me, was a terrible idea but the free transfers were there available for everyone. And even, you got the option to tranfer with your guild if they decided to move.

 

So, pls, is ok you wanna defend BW at all cost but tell the truth first.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Nyaara

[curtkram]

So, pls, is ok you wanna defend BW at all cost but tell the truth first.

 

that's a bit much to ask. there were enough discussions before this was released. bioware knew it would be a problem. they acted with intent to piss off their subscribers and release a transfer option that punishes people who have been here a long time or who have multiple characters.

 

how would you say "i want you to suffer" with positive spin? just say "they suffer more in WoW"

 

PvPers want to got to PoT5 now. that's where fatman transferred into. i bet a lot of PvPers didn't think to transfer to fatman when it was the last active server. duh. i'd like to get my toons off of PoT5 and onto the server i actually play on. do you really think it would screw up server populations or destroy the community if i took my abandoned toons off PoT5 and moved them to the server i'm already playing on? of course not. you know you're full of crap when you say stuff like that, but you can't be honest because any way you say it the truth hurts bioware. they did bad. it's so one-sided bad that there just isn't any way to speak candidly, so it's either just stay out of it and be quite or make stuff up. and we know there is only one thing a white-knight can do when given those 2 options.

[evodude]

coming from wow, i thought there server transfer was actually pretty cheap

 

think it turns out about £10 or something which i find pretty good

[Nyaara]

how would you say "i want you to suffer" with positive spin? just say "they suffer more in WoW".

 

Wow has absolutely nothing to do here. Both are MMORPGs, yes, but nothing more. Wow was a successful since the beginning with millions of players and is still 100% suscription based. SwTor, Bioware and EA, screwed up the release and even was called Tortanic for a long time. Another Wow-killer defeated.

 

SwTor has been the opposite and the Cataclysm didnt come as an expantion pack but a million of bad decisions losing 75% of customers in a few months.

 

IF Wow charges 20€ or 200€ or for free pero character transfer doesnt matter here. We are talikng about different things. Different ways to handle a business.

[curtkram]

i agree Nyaara. you had asked if people like andryah would be able to start with the truth. i was just trying to point out that for the die-hard bioware defenders, they don't have many options outside of deliberate falsehood (such as the Rift case you mentioned). i kind of feel sorry for them. they couldn't just stay out of this thread even if they wanted to.

 

I don't think we should be comparing this game to others very much at all. the problem with this transfer release is specific to this game, it's history, and the legacy/acheivment systems they've already put in place. if we absolutely must compare this game to others, we should not be comparing it to WoW. i would pick Farmville.

[Dawginole]

Here's the problems:

-They have maintenance and electrical and bandwidth issues to deal with.

-They also can't have people just dropping servers like a bad habit. You would end up with folks ganking guild banks and switching servers before anyone found out. It's the same reason there's a limit on name changes. The pricing is used to weed out problems.

 

So I got all that. That's great. But we also play a game that had massive forced transfers and opened way too many servers at launch causing other players to get stranded and forced to migrate.

 

The result of which is that $18/toon is a punishment to players that are in the position they are in because of BW's failures and not their own choices.

 

I believe a fair solution to keeping the price high for single transfers in order to ward off problems is that they release a "Legacy Transfer" option or something like a "Family Transfer Pack". If someone wanted to transfer their entire legacy they could use the legacy pack. And the Family Pack would transfer up to 10 toons. These would cost $30 and be one time use options.

 

This way, BW keeps the price high on single transfers to ward off problems, but also provide a way for people to transfer multiple toons that may be stranded at a reasonable price point.

 

If a solution like this isn't introduced when the company itself encourages alt creation, then it's just gauging the player base once again. I understand if they need to prevent problems, but at the same time asking someone to pay $100 to transfer 5 toons to a server where their friends are is frankly unconscionable as a business practice.

[Andryah]

Then you should know that server transfers came with 1.3, early summer, just a few months after the release. And if you played that game, you should know that when the free transfers came, the game was running quite well with good population. F2P came 2 years after that.

 

 

If you are going to poke fingers and acuse about factual distortions.. best to be with the facts rather then making them up, like you are doing.

 

Server transfers came in June...4 months after launch. And they came in the face of a good number of heavy servers going light and players complaining that their servers were dying and they wanted to be able to move to different servers. So.. they either had to do forced merges or take the approach they did. Credit to them that they acted quickly (as population loss was already down by more then 30% by May and that trend line continued through the year, but don't take my word for it.. look at the steep attrition slope at mmodata.net). Had they not acted quickly, they would have likely folded shop completely. I'm sure their internal metrics were telling them an even clearer picture then was publicly available to players (courtesy of mmodata.net).

 

Free transfers were Rifts solution to attrition effects.. and they began locking and closing servers shortly after free transfers went live. They did not want to go F2P at that time (and they were very vocal about it too, in the face of some players telling/demanding them to do so). If they had done paid transfers at that time.. they would have collapsed and closed shop. So they did the best thing for them in lieu of F2P... they went with free perpetual character transfers. Next they issued vacate notices on about half the servers, and more followed later. By end of the year, they had lost more then 60% of their paid subs and were continuing to issue vacate notices to servers and people were forced to move to a different server.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Andryah

[Nyaara]

I

Server transfers came in June...4 months after launch. And they came in the face of a good number of heavy servers going light and players complaining that their servers were dying and they wanted to be able to move to different servers. So.. they either had to do forced merges or take the approach they did. Credit to them that they acted quickly (as population loss was already down by more then 30% by May and that trend line continued through the year, but don't take my word for it.. look at the steep attrition slope at mmodata.net). Had they not acted quickly, they would have folded shop completely.

 

Trion did much faster and by far with better customer service than BW. EA would have charged for the service like is doing now cos they just care the money, not the customer.

 

And when server transfers came in Rift, here in Europe, my server Blightweald was running very well and even, and due the free transfers, some servers like Whitefall (PvP) got insane queues cos it. And we are talking about a 100% suscription based MMO. I agree that transfers came cos some servers got light but they managed very different and taking care of the customer. The opposite we are suffering here in SwTor.

 

And Trion didnt screw up the release like BW did. The difference about the service between both companies is so huge that any discussion about it, is pointless.

 

I´ve played a lot of MMORPGS and this game got one of the worst customer service i ever saw. And is cos EA sucks.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Nyaara

[Andryah]

I think the PVP player base have declared POT5 to be their promised land.

 

Yes, I understand.

 

Fact is.. the PvP player base has been declaring "THE PvP Server" since shortly after launch. But really, it does not mean very much... because remember when The Fatman was declared the defacto PvP server last year before merges?? Yet today.. there is no Fatman.. as they are a fickle bunch who server hop and make declarations all the time. Wait.. wut? The Fatman was supposed to be the home of homes for PvP.. the everlasting and perpetual place to PvP with the PvP crowd.... Who shot The Fatman in the head? The PvP players did, not Bioware.

 

Fact is... as servers were consolidated last year, Bioware kept regional and rule set integrity as they did so. What this means is that any player that rolled on day 1 on a PvP West server... their characters ARE on a PvP West server today.

 

The only issue here really is the PvP players that sever hopped across East/West in the US following whatever the latest PvP declaration was made in the forums.

 

When I say the issue is largely limited to PvP players and self-inflicted.. I mean exactly that. Any player that stayed on a PvP server in their own local region NEVER suffered from characters on different servers post-consolidation last year. They had to deliberately follow the imaginary PvP carrot to other regions in order to get themselves into the issue they are anxious and upset about today. Nobody but themselves and their PvP compadres caused this.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Andryah

[Andryah]

Trion did much faster and by far with better customer service than BW.

 

I agree. It's not the point I am discussing.

 

And Trion didnt screw up the release like BW did.

 

Correct. Trion screwed up along completely different lines, leading to 65%+ loss of subs by month 9 after launch and the moth balling of 2/3 of it's servers in NA and EU.

 

I´ve played a lot of MMORPGS and this game got one of the worst customer service i ever saw. And is cos EA sucks.

 

I have played a lot of MMOs over the years, and the customer service here is about the same as everywhere else. If you have an issue in game and you open a ticket and are clear and precise about your issue, it gets fixed.

 

On the other hand.. if you think you as a single player get to dictate what the development team does/does_not do with their game property....well.. that's just misplaced expectations.

 

Simple principle I follow with respect to MMOs: Play an MMO for what it offers you.. for as long as it is fun. When it's not fun... why play any longer?? Simple really. Why play a game you do not enjoy?

Edited June 26, 2013 by Andryah

[jgoldsack]

Just make a big superserver, and be done with it.

 

1 superserver for "PvE".

1 superserver for "PvP".

 

Poor RP players, but C'est la vie

[Elyxin]

1800 caps isn't bad at all. But on the flip side, I can understand the frustration with those caught in the spinup of servers in SWtOR.

 

I don't think it would be a horrible thing for Bio to provide a single time bulk discount fee for those who want to transfer all their toons on ONE server to ONE other server ONCE. make it roughly the cost of 2 transfers, and were golden. 3600 caps isn't sky high, but it isn't a walk in the park. those serious about Xferring 8 toons will be getting a huge discount, but it will also curb the desire of spontaneous hoppers of moving unless they're serious about it. ONE time. after that, 1800 a pop.

 

To me it's really an issue of a positive customer experience...it has nothing to do with right/wrong, contract or no contract. companies to satisfy their customers usually keep said customers. I think the one time bulk xfer discount would do much in this regard.

Edited June 26, 2013 by Elyxin

[curtkram]

Yes, I understand.

 

Fact is.. the PvP player base has been declaring "THE PvP Server" since shortly after launch. But really, it does not mean very much... because remember when The Fatman was declared the defacto PvP server last year before merges?? Yet today.. there is no Fatman.. as they are a fickle bunch who server hop and make declarations all the time. Wait.. wut? The Fatman was supposed to be the home of homes for PvP.. the everlasting and perpetual place to PvP with the PvP crowd.... Who shot The Fatman in the head? The PvP players did, not Bioware.

 

Fact is... as servers were consolidated last year, Bioware kept regional and rule set integrity as they did so. What this means is that any player that rolled on day 1 on a PvP West server... their characters ARE on a PvP West server today.

 

The only issue here really is the PvP players that sever hopped across East/West in the US following whatever the latest PvP declaration was made in the forums.

 

When I say the issue is largely limited to PvP players and self-inflicted.. I mean exactly that. Any player that stayed on a PvP server in their own local region NEVER suffered from characters on different servers post-consolidation last year. They had to deliberately follow the imaginary PvP carrot to other regions in order to get themselves into the issue they are anxious and upset about today. Nobody but themselves and their PvP compadres caused this.

 

fatman merged into PoT5. sooo, saying pot5 is 'the pvp' server is the same thing they were saying shortly after launch. same server. the players didn't change, because the players aren't as fickle as you're making them out to be.

 

split legacies aren't because of pvp hopping. i transferred to fatman after trying 2 pve servers because they both died and fatman was populated. while rift listened to their players and tried to fix it, bioware did not.

 

the pve servers i started on were sedyne kyne and then thana vesh, which merged to jedi covenant and shadowlands respectively. both east coast pve.

 

that's 3 servers. not a single 'pvp' hop. you're just making up untrue statements to make it look like the players are at fault. all i've see from your attempts to deflect fault away from bioware is making up stuff, deliberately falsifying facts, and making strawmen comparisons to other games. now try the truth. truth is bioware keeps screwing up and going against what's good for the players. they're bad people. if the cartel market staff can't figure it out, then they should probably be kicked out just like the initial staff.