Fair assessment of Bolster!

[Asturias]

Its that time to give BioWARE/EA a fair assessment of BOLSTER! It has been out for a minute now so I ask the community to give feed back on what you like and don't like about Bolster. Please be kind to each other and respect others opinions, thanks in advance.

 

I'll start off by giving you my assessment because I have waited patiently to see the outcome of it.

 

I believe bolster is great for the lower brackets and for those who want to enjoy PvP during there leveling process. However I do not believe this is great for the end game PvP scene. My reasoning is this, I truely enjoy the MIN/MAX, progression gearing process of PvPing and watching the fruits of my labor flurish with my hard earned work.

 

Now some of you will say that MIN/MAX (Progression Gearing) is a crutch for those who can't PvP but that is false. People who MIN/MAX (Progression gearing), IMO seem to understand the game mechanics more than the average PvPer and will excel at what ever you throw at them.

 

In reality there is nothing to strive for at end game PvP, nothing to work for and I just can't come to terms of really wanting to PvP anymore and believe me I used to PvP religiously on my free time with my main.

 

I guess what I am getting at; what is the incentive of PvPing at end game, where is the accomplishment or the figuring out what works best by MIN/MAX.

 

I know I am not the only one who feels this way so I ask you BioWARE, please review this and what is your plan for end game PvP and were is the incentive to keep playing if you enjoy PvP.

 

I want to clarify something here, I love this game and by no means do I hate BioWARE and Star Wars the Old Republic. I want to see this game flurish for a long time and I truely love to PvP

 

So what is your opinions.

Edited June 25, 2013 by Asturias

[Arox]

what i dont get is the point of pvp armor?

 

go into a wz with pve get 1900+ free expertise. but do more dmg from higher base stats.

 

 

i dont get it.

[Asturias]

what i dont get is the point of pvp armor?

 

go into a wz with pve get 1900+ free expertise. but do more dmg from higher base stats.

 

 

i dont get it.

 

Couldn't agree more and thanks for posting

[jolleebindu]

i see discrepancies between the functionality of various endgame gear as presenting barriers between the pvp and pve communities

 

having gear obtained by a single means be useless in the other means that you are quite effectively dividing your community into distinct groups

 

the goal of bolster is to allow pve players to experience pvp with a minor penalty (i like this concept)

 

however, it doesn't work both ways (there is no pve bolster, nor should there be)

 

i'd rather see bolster done away with, and both pvp/pve gear given bonuses tied to the mods/pieces (where applicable, possibly in the form of a unique stat)

 

in the end having a full pvp set give a slight "expertise" boost - like now but to a lesser degree

and a full pve set given a slight pve stat boost - like expertise, but only working in "boss" fights

(for both, all other stats the same)

 

finally the result would be that pvp gear would be best for pvp, pve gear would be best for pve, and both could be interchangeable with the other, but only in a pinch

Edited June 24, 2013 by jolleebindu

[MidichIorian]

We need some form of progression at 55. I don't care if it's through gear or other stuff but it needs to be there.

A good player would be good in recruit gear too, mathematically obviously not as good as he/she would have been in full ewh at the time but still a factor. Hence, the entire gear issue was nothing but an excuse by players who lacked that skill and most likely didn't play much, or they would have realized that it didnt take long to get into wh. It should be added though that recruit had one big flaw, it wasnt slotted. This resulted in that more or less nobody auged it, which put them at an even greater disadvantage. Had it been slotted and people would have been able to put the mods in their auged shells it would have been less of an "issue" and far superior to the system we have now.

 

So, if they're going to stick with "gear progression", in contrast to progression through other stuff (special vehicles, special pvp items etc) they need to make it so that there's actually some form of progression too. It's said that tomorrow's patch will be some form of nerf to bolstered lvl 54 gear but I don't see it being enough, considering how lvl 54 gear currently is better than Conq. I can't imagine that they're nerfing it enough to create a gap between the two. In the current system they need to nerf to the bolster on expertise instead of stats to make sure that people won't find a way to keep their stats high while getting the expertise for free. A cap on 1600 expertise for non-PvP gear would have been more than enough. Personally I'd set it much lower, probably in the 1000-1200 range.

 

I'm not really sure who the current system is aimed toward because as I see it the only people who actually benefit from it in what I assume is the intended way are those who don't have any gear at all, PvP or PvE gear. Any normal gamer will either have some decent PvP or PvE gear shortly after dinging 55 and that's rendering the entire system moot. You basically have to ding 55 while still being in some bad lvl 32 gear for you to not benefit more than intended.

 

And yes, I get the whole "it's more fun to play on equal terms" argument. It's the reason to why i loved Halo 1-3, they didnt have the BS perks and other stuff that every FPS has nowdays, BUT this is a different type of game and on top of that it's not nearly as good and can't stand on it's own by delivering an amazing experience. People are getting fed up with playing the same warzones over and over again and getting teamed with and against players outside their own skill range, due to the complete lack of matchmaking system, so they need something to keep them going. Add to this that rateds, which could have been an incentive to play but failed miserably , has turned in to some serious circle jerking where you in many cases would be able to take a spot on any team out there but for one or another reason isnt accepted in by those few who are running the show (guilds).

Edited June 24, 2013 by MidichIorian

[Arox]

Just did an experiment in a warzone.

 

I have 1670 expertise on my alt. in the warzone i had 1898 with Bolster.

 

I replaced my 41 Power crystal with a 41 Expertise crystal.

 

my expertise dropped to 1675 aswell as a drop in overall power from removing power crystal.

 

Thats just MESSED UP!! i lost over 220 expertise and power instantly just from adding an Expertise crystal. What a joke. So Bioware.. explain to me how pvp armor works again?

[Aehgo]

Just did an experiment in a warzone.

 

I have 1670 expertise on my alt. in the warzone i had 1898 with Bolster.

 

I replaced my 41 Power crystal with a 41 Expertise crystal.

 

my expertise dropped to 1675 aswell as a drop in overall power from removing power crystal.

 

Thats just MESSED UP!! i lost over 220 expertise and power instantly just from adding an Expertise crystal. What a joke. So Bioware.. explain to me how pvp armor works again?

If only 1 or 2 mods/ enhancements in a piece of gear has expertise on it,bolster screws you over.

I found this out on my lowbie sniper,bought a pvp weapon,noticed when I equiped it my expertise decreased by 200-300 in warzone because the weapon had an enhancement with 11 expertise on it...lol

[Asturias]

This is great feed back, keep em coming. Seems to be more like minded folks that like progression. Maybe BioWARE made a mistake. Lets get the word out on our servers to come here and post concerns for end game PvP. Hopefully we can get some rated group thoughts in this as well. Edited June 24, 2013 by Asturias

[sanchito]

The worst part of bolster atm is in my oppinion the huge amount of people still playing in old pvp armor. i see on average 2 people per warzone in bm, champ, centurion, recruit, and it must be terrible for them....

[Atramar]

I'm loving it. Always hated doing pvp on lowbie 10-49 just to have good start at 50. it killed story questing so I would not level to fast, hated people in lowbies, hated team play (or rather lack of team play) in lowbies, and generaly, hated lowbies.

Only good thing on lowbie, was my one 'semi twink' (up to date blues,stim, augments) marauder, who I used after harder days at work when I needed some CARNAGE-or when my fiancee wanted to watch me killing people

but I always cursed the lack of team play, so wasn't doing that very often, not to mention, it didn't improve my game (owning 3 people just becose they didn't spend a second on their gear didn't make me proud of my self either - but still, was a bit fun and giggle) play, so was waste of time.

 

Now I can join competetive pvp (with no under geared or pve geared players who will get ripped in 3GCD) with my 66-69 grade pve gear, feel comptetetive (still less then full pvp gear, but good enouth) and earn my pvp gear in good games.

 

Not to mention, less gear wide steam rolling when you enter, see 6 people 15k hp, and knowing the result of the game before the count down ends.

 

going from pve to pvp is far more friendly now (specially for healers), in less degree for tanks.

Edited June 24, 2013 by Atramar

[Arunas]

I like that there is no more gear difference, or rather HP difference. Old recruit gear and leveling greens had retarded low HP for pvp and was significant disadvantage for the team that got more of those.

 

Don't particulary care about bolster imperfections atm as long as they are no game breaking, will be sorted out in time I hope.

 

What I don't get is why Bioware did not fix obsolete pvp set expertise and pvp weapons from that vendor - I think they still give +9 or so expertise, no?. They break bolster if you happen to use them, and is stupid that people that don't know about this get punished, would not be an issue if the bolster was more transparent.

 

Would be nice if they made so you gain bolster when nearby pvp warzone dummy, for more accurate testing.

[Spacemanbobr]

It's broken and needs to be changed at level 55 (or completely removed, since it is cap after all). It's fine for the two lower brackets though.

 

Right now, you can completely exploit it by using level 54 gear to become, much, much stronger than you are with pvp gear. My damage going from my assault cannon with a 30 barrel increases from about 1600 to 1900 if I put a level 54 purple assault cannon that does about 100 less tool-tip damage (and yes, I'll admit, I take advantage of this because I'm starting to see a lot of people doing it). Besides that, using the endgame raid gear is simply better than using the PvP gear at all, because of how much expertise you get from wearing nothing with expertise.

 

PvP gear should be the best gear to use in PvP, end of story. The entire system for bolster in level 55 warzones should be reworked or bolster just being removed from level 55, and the equivalent of recruit gear from back in the day that has expertise should be bestowed upon you once you reach level 55 so you are competitive.

[Atramar]

..

PvP gear should be the best gear to use in PvP, end of story. The entire system for bolster in level 55 warzones should be reworked or bolster just being removed from level 55, and the equivalent of recruit gear from back in the day that has expertise should be bestowed upon you once you reach level 55 so you are competitive.

 

1. pvp should not be about gear but about skill. We all liked to land a 2x9k hit on that poor recruit fella who used half pve greens in some slots, but it was getting old real quick, specially if that recruit/pve players was in your team.

2.fix exploits, yes, but ffew rare examples are not an argument to remove the whole system which is good.

3.recruit gear was proven to not work. many people would not wear it for simple reason, it was ugly and not moddable. Only thing that it was good for, was first replacment for... pve.

4.bolster opened pvp to many pve players, wasn't that the point?

Edited June 24, 2013 by Atramar

[Kirtastropohe]

I can tell you bolster has killed my desire to PvP in this game at level 55. In fact, I don't. Been a subscriber since day 1, and I'm not sure how much longer I'll be around given the total lack of viable end-game pvp. Heck, the very concept of bolster is foolish and contrary to common sense, and has thus has been implemented poorly because it is a concept that is pretty much like trying to get 2+2 to equal 5. You're taking something that's impossible and trying to make it work.

 

There is always going to be gear disparity. Instead of working to improve a very easily controlled variable... a set of free PvP gear, they decided to rework everything...which has screwed everything. The law of unintended consequences has been on full display here.

 

My assessment of bolster...it sucks...and so have the attempts to fix it.

[Floplag]

The basic problem with this is that the so-called "hard work" in this case amounts to nothing more than an abundance of free time. which grants you better gear than those who don't have it.

Min/Maxing takes little more than credits which come from the same time-sink.

 

Personally i would love to see them do away with the PvP specific stats... why does it matter? Make the PvP gear better looking as a reward, not more powerful.

 

I am an avid PvPer on multiple toons... and i have never understood the whole separation of gear thing as anything more than a way to make me invest more time in the game, not a reward.

 

I know i know here comes the "i don't like the PvE side of things.. well that's moot cause you have to to level up to the top levels so deal with it. once there PvPers should be able to get the equivalent of the best PvE gear... i have no issue there... but the whole special stats thing is just whack, and unnecessary

[Asturias]

The worst part of bolster atm is in my oppinion the huge amount of people still playing in old pvp armor. i see on average 2 people per warzone in bm, champ, centurion, recruit, and it must be terrible for them....

 

Maybe its because there is no incentive to play, no progression to work towards because Bolster fixes it for you so you don't have to worry.

 

What is the point of it all when progression doesn't matter in a game?

Edited June 24, 2013 by Asturias

[jolleebindu]

I like that there is no more gear difference, or rather HP difference. Old recruit gear and leveling greens had retarded low HP for pvp and was significant disadvantage for the team that got more of those.

 

Don't particulary care about bolster imperfections atm as long as they are no game breaking, will be sorted out in time I hope.

 

What I don't get is why Bioware did not fix obsolete pvp set expertise and pvp weapons from that vendor - I think they still give +9 or so expertise, no?. They break bolster if you happen to use them, and is stupid that people that don't know about this get punished, would not be an issue if the bolster was more transparent.

 

Would be nice if they made so you gain bolster when nearby pvp warzone dummy, for more accurate testing.

 

i'd suggest having bolster applied when you are "in combat" with the pvp dummy

 

and i agree about how bolster handles the older pvp gear - given that many potentially returning players left during a period where that was the best gear that they had - it would make sense to have bolster account for that, beyond not working with it. I'd suggest a system that worked on a mod-by-mod basis, instead of a whole piece at a time

Edited June 24, 2013 by jolleebindu

[Asturias]

The basic problem with this is that the so-called "hard work" in this case amounts to nothing more than an abundance of free time. which grants you better gear than those who don't have it.

Min/Maxing takes little more than credits which come from the same time-sink.

 

Personally i would love to see them do away with the PvP specific stats... why does it matter? Make the PvP gear better looking as a reward, not more powerful.

 

I am an avid PvPer on multiple toons... and i have never understood the whole separation of gear thing as anything more than a way to make me invest more time in the game, not a reward.

 

I know i know here comes the "i don't like the PvE side of things.. well that's moot cause you have to to level up to the top levels so deal with it. once there PvPers should be able to get the equivalent of the best PvE gear... i have no issue there... but the whole special stats thing is just whack, and unnecessary

 

Why not give everyone a PVE Bolster so that we all can fairly compete with Raiders? I believe this is not fair to the PvP community that enjoy progression.

 

What is the matter with giving PvP players a special stat? Why do we have to make everything even because I really don't see the point of End Game when there is no progression added.

 

Thanks for posting,

Edited June 24, 2013 by Asturias

[jolleebindu]

I think you are contradicting yourself here and as a Player, I don't have to go through Dungeons to level up and I don't need a group to achieve max level so why should I have to be forced to level through Dungeons that I really don't care to see but only once?

 

Why not give me a Bolster so that I can fairly compete with Raiders? I believe this is not fair to PvP community and you have to see that.

 

i think he is referring to leveling as "pve" content and i think he is in dislike of having segregated "types" of endgame gear... i.e. pvp and pve - because of a specialized stat (expertise)

[Asturias]

i think he is referring to leveling as "pve" content and i think he is in dislike of having segregated "types" of endgame gear... i.e. pvp and pve - because of a specialized stat (expertise)

Thanks for pointing that out =) Got a little ahead of myself on topic.

[sanchito]

Maybe its because there is no incentive to play, no progression to work towards because Bolster fixes it for you so you don't have to worry.

 

What is the point of it all when progression doesn't matter in a game?

 

Yeah but that's just it, old pvp gear gives you like a 30% stat penalty, worse than the gear gap before 2.0 ever was. If you see someone with < 22k HP check his gear, it's always old pvp gear, and their expertise is between 1k and 1.5k

[Asturias]

Yeah but that's just it, old pvp gear gives you like a 30% stat penalty, worse than the gear gap before 2.0 ever was. If you see someone with < 22k HP check his gear, it's always old pvp gear, and their expertise is between 1k and 1.5k

 

Before 55 (Remember expertise was wiped out from WH and EWH gear)

http://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/1704304/pics/original/1644397.jpg

http://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/1704304/pics/original/1849159.jpg

 

After 55 (No Expertise just base stats allocated from bolster)

Notice the Guardian I targeted which has better gear and should be better.

http://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/1704304/pics/original/1849167.jpg

 

 

Before 2.0

(Remember Mercs were considered Craptastic before 2.0)

http://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/1704304/pics/original/1644402.jpg

http://assets-cloud.enjin.com/users/1704304/pics/original/881271.jpg

 

I don't think its a 30% significant change and gear does not matter anymore, so there is no end game progression for PvPers like me, IMO.

 

Thanks for the reply

Edited June 24, 2013 by Asturias

[sanchito]

Before 55 (Remember expertise was wiped out from WH and EWH gear)

...

I don't think its a 30% significant change and gear does not matter anymore, so there is no end game progression for PvPers like me, IMO.

 

Thanks for the reply

 

No you misunderstand what i'm saying i think; I'm criticizing that they fixed WH / EWH but not old sets (and not WH / EWH relics). And they also don't tell people that those sets are broken, so a huge amount still wears them. And a battlemaster / recruit mix is indeed 30% behind conqueror, it's already 25% worse than questing greens.

 

The relics alone give you more than 10% penalty btw

 

edit: like the worst part of bolster is not only does it remove gear progression for hardcores, it also fails in doing what it was supposed to do, eliminate the gear gap

Edited June 24, 2013 by sanchito

[Asturias]

No you misunderstand what i'm saying i think; I'm criticizing that they fixed WH / EWH but not old sets (and not WH / EWH relics). And they also don't tell people that those sets are broken, so a huge amount still wears them. And a battlemaster / recruit mix is indeed 30% behind conqueror, it's already 25% worse than questing greens.

 

The relics alone give you more than 10% penalty btw

 

edit: like the worst part of bolster is not only does it remove gear progression for hardcores, it also fails in doing what it was supposed to do, eliminate the gear gap

I don't know maybe I am one of those select few that get the mechanics of the game so I excel at it no matter what.

 

I just don't see the competitiveness for end game anymore and the fun part of working towards building a PvP Monster and figuring out what stat works the best.

 

To me Bolster doesn't provide that for people like me.

 

Good talk

Edited June 24, 2013 by Asturias

[Zunayson]

OP says that he likes lateral gear progression. Not vertical.

 

Better stats is vertical. Different stats is lateral.