Where have all my Canon gone?

[Wolfninjajedi]

You do realize that the novels were always subject to being overruled by the movies? Every author knew that from the start so there's hardly going to be any hard feelings on their part. Furthermore, I believe most of it was written before EP I if I'm not mistaken and that's a long time ago, too long for them to even really care at this point. The PT already overrules many of the books in small ways.

 

For example, Luke says in the Black fleet crisis that Yoda was on Dagobah for a 100 years before he met him and that Yoda went there to get away from his power. I mean... how wrong is that in SO many ways? Pretty much everything said about the Era before EP 4 in the EU is blatantly wrong. Getting outraged this time around is just getting outraged for the sake of getting outraged.

 

In small ways yes, but this maybe more then just a few small changes being made here if they decide to go through with it. Instead of a few small things being changed, entire stories, eras, characters and the like could be removed completely.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Sadly, EA got exclusivity for the games, so that medium is in the trash bin.

 

Expect 1 rushed out battlefront every 1 or 2 years with no substance and incredibly short with nothing but shiny skyboxes.

 

The Sims: Jedi Academy.

 

Sim Cosuscant.

 

Huttball as a stand alone game.

 

Maybe an RPG with 5 rooms redone 20 times.

 

Yes I'm incredibly cynical when it comes to EA. ;D

I wasn't being Star Wars - but science fiction/fantasy in general. I don't believe for a second that Bethesda weren't at all inspired by Lord of the Rings in any of their works, or that the popularity of both that and other medieval fantasy worlds were not bolstered by the books and the movies.

 

EDIT: That said, from Star Wars we are looking at a steady stream of games, a TV series that may not be the last, 6 films, books, comics, toys etc. that alone is enough to rival the medieval fantasy entertainment franchise currently in existence. Enough to topple it!

Edited June 19, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

You do realize that the novels were always subject to being overruled by the movies? Every author knew that from the start so there's hardly going to be any hard feelings on their part. Furthermore, I believe most of it was written before EP I if I'm not mistaken and that's a long time ago, too long for them to even really care at this point. The PT already overrules many of the books in small ways.

Translation: all the authors are probably dead now so who really cares?

 

No but you make a good point, of all the EU era's the post-ROTJ is most definitely the worst.

 

That said, its also probably the largest.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I will say though a silver lining if they do....Boba Fett. His survival to the 1st sarlacc....ok I will give that a slight passing. But then to have him survive 2(3?) more times, and then have him be cured by a magic needle that fixed his skin tissue degeneration and tumors? NO, those things are just stupid....sorry...the guy is a normal being.

 

I can accept(abit loosely) him surviving 1 sarlacc, but then 2 more?

 

Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on you. Fool me 3 times, **** YOU!

 

Edit: Also Beni looking at it, seems the authors are still alive.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Jandi]

In small ways yes, but this maybe more then just a few small changes being made here if they decide to go through with it. Instead of a few small things being changed, entire stories, eras, characters and the like could be removed completely.

 

The whole clone wars era is NOTHING like depicted in the books that came out pre-PT and the era is being referred to quite often. If someone who has never seen the PT movies would read the EU, then go see the movies, they would think they are 2 separate things entirely.

[Wolfninjajedi]

The whole clone wars era is NOTHING like depicted in the books that came out pre-PT and the era is being referred to quite often. If someone who has never seen the PT movies would read the EU, then go see the movies, they would think they are 2 separate things entirely.

 

Yet how many books on the Clone Wars Pre-PT was released? Because it seems to me, that wasn't really read up on by people unlike post-ROTJ stuff. Were also talking about just 1 era here, whereas post-ROTJ we have multiple eras and several wars.

 

But anyway this is moot, as I don't really care what happens. All I am saying is what I said before.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

I will say though a silver lining if they do....Boba Fett. His survival to the 1st sarlacc....ok I will give that a slight passing. But then to have him survive 2(3?) more times, and then have him be cured by a magic needle that fixed his skin tissue degeneration and tumors? NO, those things are just stupid....sorry...the guy is a normal being.

 

I can accept(abit loosely) him surviving 1 sarlacc, but then 2 more?

 

Fool me once, shame on me. Fool me twice, shame on you. Fool me 3 times, **** YOU!

 

Edit: Also Beni looking at it, seems the authors are still alive.

I know its ridiculous. I mean Boba Fett clawing his way out of a sarlaac is actually a pretty cool idea, it makes up for his embarrassing 'death' in Jedi and adds to the general ******ness he exhumes. And the guys got armour, digestion is slow, it can happen.

 

But chucking him in again? Yeah I suppose if he survived it once he can do it again but why? Just why? And then a 3rd time? Talk about whipping a dead horse.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I know its ridiculous. I mean Boba Fett clawing his way out of a sarlaac is actually a pretty cool idea, it makes up for his embarrassing 'death' in Jedi and adds to the general ******ness he exhumes. And the guys got armour, digestion is slow, it can happen.

 

But chucking him in again? Yeah I suppose if he survived it once he can do it again but why? Just why? And then a 3rd time? Talk about whipping a dead horse.

 

I only accept the 1st time loosely, because....it just seems kinda retarded how he got out. He was lucky enough to have someone be telepathy linked with the sarlacc, and then tricked the guy to have the sarlacc tighten around his jetpack to activate it and send him flying out. Eh...ok I guess stranger things have happened, but then the other times? I don't see how.

 

Edit: Wait no, that was the 2nd time he was trapped was the telepathic dude...still retarded though and doesn't really make sense for him to have fallen in the 2nd time, they just seemed to do that just to have him get back out again..

 

The 1st time, I don't even see how he got out. If he was trapped the same way, how would he fight his way out if he had neurotoxins injected into his body? They are injected into the body, the moment the victim is caught and put in the stomach. I don't see how his armor would have helped him...he only wears armor that covers his head and chest, his neck, arms and legs are just protected by a reinforced flight suit...sure it gives him some protection, but I don't see it lasting under long exposure.

 

Last I check neurotoxin= Disruption of nervous system and can cause a whole heap of things to happen to the body. Which include, dizziness, paralysis, loss of motor control and a bunch of other ****ed up ****. I don't see how the hell he could have even moved out the 1st time.

 

But....but...as I said...I accept the 1st time, no matter how dumb. The 2nd time? No...then we bring in the tissue degeneration and tumors and magic needle...HELL NO.

Edited June 19, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Euphrosyne]

As far as the quality of the post-RotJ stories go, I think it's much more up and down than everything else, but only by necessity, because it's also the largest area of canon. You've got awful dreck like Dark Empire and the Jedi Academy Trilogy, you've got a vast array of mediocre to decent books like Legacy of the Force and the Black Fleet Crisis, you've got pretty good-quality books like the X-wing series or the NJO, and you've got completely transcendent books that outshine anything else in the EU like the Thrawn trilogy and Traitor. There's nothing in the pre-Episode I continuity that's quite as good as Traitor, much like there's nothing there that's quite as bad as The Crystal Star (although the Tales of the Jedi comics come awfully close).

 

So, sure, the movies might mean that there wouldn't be anything as goofy as Waru. They also might mean that there wouldn't be anything as amazing as Ganner Rhysode's Last Stand or Jacen Solo's journey through hell. No Palpatine Reborn could also mean no Wraith Squadron and no Katana fleet. Take away the Jedi Academy Trilogy and you lose I, Jedi into the bargain. Things like that.

You do realize that the novels were always subject to being overruled by the movies? Every author knew that from the start so there's hardly going to be any hard feelings on their part. Furthermore, I believe most of it was written before EP I if I'm not mistaken and that's a long time ago, too long for them to even really care at this point. The PT already overrules many of the books in small ways.

 

For example, Luke says in the Black fleet crisis that Yoda was on Dagobah for a 100 years before he met him and that Yoda went there to get away from his power. I mean... how wrong is that in SO many ways? Pretty much everything said about the Era before EP 4 in the EU is blatantly wrong. Getting outraged this time around is just getting outraged for the sake of getting outraged.

That is one throwaway comment about something that Luke could very well have been plausibly wrong about, even in context. It doesn't even require a retcon; he just didn't know all the facts. It's not like it underpins the whole plotline of the Black Fleet Crisis books, and without it the entire story of the Yevethan genocides would make no sense. Small retcons are easy, and have been a part of Star Wars since Lucas changed Vader's backstory for The Empire Strikes Back.

 

For what it's worth, I don't see how that error is any less forgivable than the errors that are built into the fabric of the entire KotOR/TOR line of products, like how the technological level of the entire galaxy jumped from an eclectic mixture of ancient and futuristic during the Great Sith War to a level that's basically congruent with movie tech in the course of a grand total of forty years. They're mistakes. They get made in every IP. And there are several people at Lucas Licensing whose entire job is to fix them.

 

That is an entirely different animal from completely erasing entire plot lines. How would the Thrawn trilogy work without Mara Jade or Thrawn himself? It wouldn't, obviously.

[Aurbere]

To be honest, I think the post-ROTJ era has produced some of the best books out there in Star Wars.

 

The Thrawn Trilogy and the other books involving Thrawn are quite possibly the best post-ROTJ books. The Jedi Academy series is also very good. I loved Outcast because of its use of the Baran Do Sages and the Kel Dor people. I, Jedi was very good. I found the Dark Nest Trilogy (of which I own the set) to be quite enjoyable. Sure the plot of Killiks wasn't the best, but it actually turned out to be very enjoyable.

 

There's also the X-Wing series, Truce at Bakura, and The Courtship of Princess Leia that are very well done as well.

 

On the other hand, the only books in the Old Republic era that I like is the Bane Trilogy and Deceived.

 

But on Dexter Jettster's third hand, we have the high quality books of the movie era. Books like Darth Plagueis, Shatterpoint, Dark Rendezvous, Labrynth of Evil, and the movie noveliazations are also top tier.

 

I think the quality is spread around, but entertainment is often called subjective.

[Jandi]

That was just an example and you know fully well what I'm talking about in regards to the depiction of the clone wars in the pre-PT written books.

 

I'm not going to bother responding to such blatant selective ignorance in order to make up an argument out of nothing.

[Wolfninjajedi]

That was just an example and you know fully well what I'm talking about in regards to the depiction of the clone wars in the pre-PT written books.

 

I'm not going to bother responding to such blatant selective ignorance in order to make up an argument out of nothing.

 

You mean how it was all a bunch of cloned jedi? I heard about it so that is all I know, but I never read any of the books...so ya I ain't knowledgeable of that. Since when am I arguing? I said that I was fine with it.

[Jandi]

You mean how it was all a bunch of cloned jedi? I heard about it so that is all I know, but I never read any of the books...so ya I ain't knowledgeable of that. Since when am I arguing? I said that I was fine with it.

 

That wasn't aimed at you.

[Wolfninjajedi]

That wasn't aimed at you.

 

Oh lol apologizes then.

[Beniboybling]

To be honest, I think the post-ROTJ era has produced some of the best books out there in Star Wars.

 

The Thrawn Trilogy and the other books involving Thrawn are quite possibly the best post-ROTJ books. The Jedi Academy series is also very good. I loved Outcast because of its use of the Baran Do Sages and the Kel Dor people. I, Jedi was very good. I found the Dark Nest Trilogy (of which I own the set) to be quite enjoyable. Sure the plot of Killiks wasn't the best, but it actually turned out to be very enjoyable.

 

There's also the X-Wing series, Truce at Bakura, and The Courtship of Princess Leia that are very well done as well.

 

On the other hand, the only books in the Old Republic era that I like is the Bane Trilogy and Deceived.

 

But on Dexter Jettster's third hand, we have the high quality books of the movie era. Books like Darth Plagueis, Shatterpoint, Dark Rendezvous, Labrynth of Evil, and the movie noveliazations are also top tier.

 

I think the quality is spread around, but entertainment is often called subjective.

Like I said in that thread way back, the quality of writing is definitely there, its the concepts etc. that irk me. And I think for most people who dislike the post-ROTJ its not about the quality of writing, but the concepts.

 

I mean the KOTOR series captured Star Wars really well, yet when I look at the themes in the post-ROTJ I just see another Marvel/DC multiverse but with lightsabers and stuff. I mean, I can't really name a single concept in the Old Republic and other era's that makes me go '/facepalm' whereas the post-ROTJ seems populated with it.

 

But like I said, the post-ROTJ is easily the largest EU era out there, so naturally there are going to be a lot of good novels out there. That said there are plenty of great books from the Old Republic era and Rise of the Empire era etc. such as the one's you list.

 

(Lol, Dexter's third hand )

[Aurbere]

(Lol, Dexter's third hand )

 

I know. I was thinking Pong Krell, but he's not as cool as Dex.

 

That aside, I agree with your assessment. Though, to be honest, few of the Old Republic books give me the same enjoyment factor as the Rise of the Empire and post-ROTJ era books do. Maybe it's simple nostalgia, because my very first Star Wars book was Truce at Bakura.

[Beniboybling]

I know. I was thinking Pong Krell, but he's not as cool as Dex.

 

That aside, I agree with your assessment. Though, to be honest, few of the Old Republic books give me the same enjoyment factor as the Rise of the Empire and post-ROTJ era books do. Maybe it's simple nostalgia, because my very first Star Wars book was Truce at Bakura.

Well my critique is more aimed at the NJO era and Legacy era.. Most particularly the NJO era. But it is partly subjective. I can't say I've ever picked up a post-ROTJ novel, partly because the New Republic era lacks the Sith threat with always intrigued me the most, and partly because the concepts in the latter era's just really don't appeal to me at all. But repulse me. I have a working knowledge of the eras and it just doesn't feel like Star Wars to me.

 

That said, from what I know of the New Republic era's its largely good quality. The NJO brings it down. That an the inital part of the NJO, the hundred years later part actually feels more in touch with Star Wars and looks more appealing to me. And I especially like the idea of Cade Skywalker (which would make for an excellent lead role in the movies.) But as a pure comic era I doubt I'll delve to deep.

[TexasMoonshine]

Is this where I can complain about Force Unleashed being canon? I jest my friends, relax. If the movies destroy all of those EU story lines, some great and some horrible as we know, then you will have a rebellion between people who were old enough to get in to the EU and people who will grow up with these new movies as the be all end all. The people with the most money to spend win in the eyes of Disney.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Is this where I can complain about Force Unleashed being canon? I jest my friends, relax. If the movies destroy all of those EU story lines, some great and some horrible as we know, then you will have a rebellion between people who were old enough to get in to the EU and people who will grow up with these new movies as the be all end all. The people with the most money to spend win in the eyes of Disney.

 

If they decide to overhaul the ENTIRETY of the EU, I will be plenty pissed....no actually I will be more pissed then that.

Edited June 20, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[TexasMoonshine]

If they decide to overhaul the ENTIRETY of the EU, I will be plenty pissed....no actually I will be more pissed then that.

 

As will I! And we will fight the rebellion together! Setting youths straight!

[Beniboybling]

If they decide to overhaul the ENTIRETY of the EU, I will be plenty pissed....no actually I will be more pissed then that.

Lol, like

[Wolfninjajedi]

Lol, like

 

Worse..

[Beniboybling]

Worse..

*trembles with fear at the prospect* don't do it Disney!