Does it make you angry that...

[mefit]

No it makes Vader Fans angry that Canonly Starkiller wooped Vader's #%% Twice .....................carry on !

[Beniboybling]

Concerning Vader vs Luke. I'd partially agree with Talon, it can go both ways however IMO Marek if more likely to win. I'd rate their lightsaber abilities as fairly equal. Luke was a quick learner and possessed enough skill to rival Vader. But so did Marek, and whats more had had intensive training all his life by one of the greatest lightsaber duelists of the era. As well as access to PROXY, whom could replicate the fighting styles of countless Jedi and Sith.

 

However without going into too much detail, Luke is trumped in terms of Force abilities. Luke may possess great potential in the Force but this has yet to manifest itself in the form of extensive Force powers. Marek on the other hand is capable of unleashing powerful blasts of Force lightning, lightning grenades etc. few of which Luke would be able to block, even with a lightsaber.

[Wolfninjajedi]

Concerning Vader vs Luke. I'd partially agree with Talon, it can go both ways however IMO Marek if more likely to win. I'd rate their lightsaber abilities as fairly equal. Luke was a quick learner and possessed enough skill to rival Vader. But so did Marek, and whats more had had intensive training all his life by one of the greatest lightsaber duelists of the era. As well as access to PROXY, whom could replicate the fighting styles of countless Jedi and Sith.

 

However without going into too much detail, Luke is trumped in terms of Force abilities. Luke may possess great potential in the Force but this has yet to manifest itself in the form of extensive Force powers. Marek on the other hand is capable of unleashing powerful blasts of Force lightning, lightning grenades etc. few of which Luke would be able to block, even with a lightsaber.

 

There is also evasion and Force Absorb and Luke isn't trumped in terms of Force abilities, he has his own that he can bring to bare. The only thing Galen holds above Luke is the lighting techniques, so I wouldn't say he is trumped outright.

 

But as said ROTJ Luke vs Galen I give 6/10...well eh maybe 5.5/10

 

Early Post ROTJ vs Galen I can see a solid majority of wins for Luke.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[tunewalker]

There is also evasion and Force Absorb and Luke isn't trumped in terms of Force abilities, he has his own that he can bring to bare. The only thing Galen holds above Luke is the lighting techniques, so I wouldn't say he is trumped outright.

 

But as said ROTJ Luke vs Galen I give 6/10...well eh maybe 5.5/10

 

Early Post ROTJ vs Galen I can see a solid majority of wins for Luke.

 

Pretty much this also Luke by RotJ had seen and blocked force lightning before thanks to his and vaders encounter with the Kaburr crystals so he actually has presidence for blocking it......

 

Remember to win a saber duel with vader Marek had to wait out his opponent and let him tire himself out Vader believed himself to be vastly superior to his opponent so he wasn't thinking strategy at all while Marek was thinking pure strategy, Marek beat vader through strategy not power in the first duel. He lost the second duel where he tried to power through, already this shows that Vader had improved. And again it is known that Vader improved on his skills and his power even further after this. If I had to I would say the Vader that galen beat was 50% emporer palps and would later become the 80% while galen himself was 55% emporer Palps. Meaning that yes galen was slightly stronger then ANH Vader but would fall to the later RoTJ and possibly even ESB Vader. More of the earlier books would support that especially shadows of the empire........ (I am a big fan of believing everything is cannon until in direct contradiction as its easy to explain some of the statements and sight sources that support it I don't feel its in contradiction).

[mefit]

Pretty much this also Luke by RotJ had seen and blocked force lightning before thanks to his and vaders encounter with the Kaburr crystals so he actually has presidence for blocking it......

 

Remember to win a saber duel with vader Marek had to wait out his opponent and let him tire himself out Vader believed himself to be vastly superior to his opponent so he wasn't thinking strategy at all while Marek was thinking pure strategy, Marek beat vader through strategy not power in the first duel. He lost the second duel where he tried to power through, already this shows that Vader had improved. And again it is known that Vader improved on his skills and his power even further after this. If I had to I would say the Vader that galen beat was 50% emporer palps and would later become the 80% while galen himself was 55% emporer Palps. Meaning that yes galen was slightly stronger then ANH Vader but would fall to the later RoTJ and possibly even ESB Vader. More of the earlier books would support that especially shadows of the empire........ (I am a big fan of believing everything is cannon until in direct contradiction as its easy to explain some of the statements and sight sources that support it I don't feel its in contradiction).

Up till now Galen has won all serious fights with Vader , unless things change it's likely he will continue . So idk how you got that ...

Edited June 9, 2013 by mefit

[Beniboybling]

He lost the second duel where he tried to power through, already this shows that Vader had improved.

You'll find that he lost due to the same reasons you use to explain why Vader lost. He thoughts were on Juno, not Vader, all he wanted was to get to Juno who was either dead or dying. He focus was not on the battle. So really, I don't feel its an adequate portrayal of his abilities.

 

However in the first battle, yes Vader was arrogant, but does that alone decide the outcome of a battle? No. I realise your not strictly arguing this but I'm just trying to explain how its a non-factor. If Vader really was superior, he would have recovered.

 

Though I'm not convinced that Vader improved that rapidly, what exactly did it say in Shadows of the Empire?

[Wolfninjajedi]

You'll find that he lost due to the same reasons you use to explain why Vader lost. He thoughts were on Juno, not Vader, all he wanted was to get to Juno who was either dead or dying. He focus was not on the battle. So really, I don't feel its an adequate portrayal of his abilities.

 

However in the first battle, yes Vader was arrogant, but does that alone decide the outcome of a battle? No. I realise your not strictly arguing this but I'm just trying to explain how its a non-factor. If Vader really was superior, he would have recovered.

 

Though I'm not convinced that Vader improved that rapidly, what exactly did it say in Shadows of the Empire?

 

These training droids look much like the typical ASP droids found in menial servant jobs throughout the Galaxy. Vader adopted the ASP 19 series frame because it was sturdy and relatively easy to repair if not too seriously damaged. However the basic frame was all Vader used when designing his training droids. He had most of the main body components developed from reinforced alloys so the droids would hold up better under combat stresses and lightsaber hits. The asp's single visular ocular was replaced by a compact high speed visual sensor, with special interface couplings to allow faster transmission of visual data and quicker responses through advanced servomotors. Vader ordered the droids to be fitted with advanced AA-1 verbo brains-the same processors used in Cybot Galactica's 3PO series human-cyborg relations droid. But where the protocol droids processors could store millions of languages, these vibro brains are packed full of combat techniques. It is even rumored that part of the droids programming comes from a Jedi holocron with personal lightsaber techniques of maaster Vo'ren Faalo.

 

These units are programmed at Vader's castle. The castle compute draws all techniques from a secured file and imprints this information on the droids processors. This information is regularly updated, allowing the droids to be improved over time and allowing the experience of earlier droids to be programmed into any new asp droids.

 

Pretty straight forward, the ASP-19 droids were already droids that were functioned for combat practice. Vader though took it a step further, and programmed them better and thus also them having updated information and experience.

 

Unless Tune of course wasn't speaking about this, then I guess I can withdraw this lol.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Pretty straight forward, the ASP-19 droids were already droids that were functioned for combat practice. Vader though took it a step further, and programmed them better and thus also them having updated information and experience.

So what are we saying here? That Vader kept improving through constant practice? Against training droids I'd say it would only keep his lightsaber skills sharp.

[Wolfninjajedi]

So what are we saying here? That Vader kept improving through constant practice? Against training droids I'd say it would only keep his lightsaber skills sharp.

 

Of course, though per Force Prowess he already has constant practice with that given he seems to use The Force a lot what with destroying Rebel bases, throwing ships, force pushing away enemies and so forth.

Edited June 9, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Beniboybling]

Of course, though per Force Prowess he already has constant practice with that given he seems to use The Force a lot what with destroying Rebel bases, throwing ships, force pushing away enemies and so forth.

*shrug* I wouldn't say it constitutes anything other than a maintaining of his current level. Over 20 years? Sure he improved? Over 2 or 3? Doubtful. IMO Vader had more or less peaked as many Force users do as they reach adulthood.

[tunewalker]

*shrug* I wouldn't say it constitutes anything other than a maintaining of his current level. Over 20 years? Sure he improved? Over 2 or 3? Doubtful. IMO Vader had more or less peaked as many Force users do as they reach adulthood.

 

see I would believe that if it wasn't for him trying to first regain much of his lost power Anakin>Galen>pre-ANH Vader and we know RotJ Vader>Anakin this is based off of events that happened and known abilities of vader and Palps statements in FU. I could go into much much more but for now I think I am going to leave it at that.