Lathari Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 According to Sidious, Starkiller could have been his"successor and equal" http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dgdY9ZaDS8Q 9:53 mark. So does it make you angry that all the things Sidious and the ancient sith did starkiller could do and possibly to a greater degree Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Who exactly are you calling out here? And the dark side ending is non-canon, so I don't think Sidious' statements matter. But even if they did, he says "could." Not that he "is." Just like Anakin could have been the most powerful Jedi ever. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lathari Posted June 9, 2013 Author Share Posted June 9, 2013 I'm only saying that he COULD have been equal/stronger to palaptine not that he actually was. It was meant for all those people who say starkiller is weak sauce. And just because a particular ending is non-canonical doesn't dismiss any statement made Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 (edited) How do you know Palps wasn't lying? Edited June 9, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lathari Posted June 9, 2013 Author Share Posted June 9, 2013 He really would have no reason too watch the scene really close and you could just FEEL his disappointment Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 (edited) He really would have no reason too watch the scene really close and you could just FEEL his disappointment Oh wait..this is the Darkside ending...was thinking of that other scene. But ya its N-canon so anything in there, can just be taken with a pitch of salt. So no, not really angry as it isn't even anything to take note of. Edited June 9, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lathari Posted June 9, 2013 Author Share Posted June 9, 2013 I swear I must be one of the only people in existence who actually thinks that had galen survived by the time of the original trilogy he would have been stronger than sidious Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 I swear I must be one of the only people in existence who actually thinks that had galen survived by the time of the original trilogy he would have been stronger than sidious Nope, in canon. Galen was just an above average force user. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lathari Posted June 9, 2013 Author Share Posted June 9, 2013 Nope, in canon. Galen was just an above average force user. I just remembered something didn't Galen beat etheral obi-wan who probably had his strength increased exponentially, but thats non canon right. But its still a superb feat in my book. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 I just remembered something didn't Galen beat etheral obi-wan who probably had his strength increased exponentially, but thats non canon right. But its still a superb feat in my book. He did and yes its non canon, so its a non canon feat. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Lathari Posted June 9, 2013 Author Share Posted June 9, 2013 What about him holding back the full force of SIdious' lightning you cant deny that that's canon Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Nope, in canon. Galen was just an above average force user.Just above average Force user? Are we forgetting that this 'just above average Force user' changed the flight path of a Star Destroyer? Are we forgetting that this 'just above average Force user' defeated Shaak Ti, was of the most powerful Jedi of her age, and Darth Vader? And are we forgetting that it was this 'just about average Force user' who managed to absorb the full force of Sidious' lightning, something only Yoda was known to be able to do? Unlike others, I have no trouble excepting Marek for who he is. One of the most powerful Force users of his era, more powerful than Darth Vader and with the potential to rival Sidious. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Just above average Force user? Are we forgetting that this 'just above average Force user' changed the flight path of a Star Destroyer? Are we forgetting that this 'just above average Force user' defeated Shaak Ti, was of the most powerful Jedi of her age, and Darth Vader? And are we forgetting that it was this 'just about average Force user' who managed to absorb the full force of Sidious' lightning, something only Yoda was known to be able to do? Unlike others, I have no trouble excepting Marek for who he is. One of the most powerful Force users of his era, more powerful than Darth Vader and with the potential to rival Sidious. Marek had great potential and yes I do believe he had the ability to rival sidious as a few others also had this potential.... but I don't know that he was more powerful then Vader at his best I truly believe if he faced Vader in ESB he would have lost..... for support remember starkiller his clone and likely the same strength as the original nearly lost to vader in TFU II only by using the STATIONS electrical power was he able to make vader kneel before then vader was actually winning this fight before then.... and that was only 1 year after the first game. So do I believe Galen had the potential hell yes but I can accept that he died long before making it there just like Anakin had the potential to be like Luke but didn't reach it because of the loss of his limbs. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 (edited) Marek had great potential and yes I do believe he had the ability to rival sidious as a few others also had this potential.... but I don't know that he was more powerful then Vader at his best I truly believe if he faced Vader in ESB he would have lost..... for support remember starkiller his clone and likely the same strength as the original nearly lost to vader in TFU II only by using the STATIONS electrical power was he able to make vader kneel before then vader was actually winning this fight before then.... and that was only 1 year after the first game. So do I believe Galen had the potential hell yes but I can accept that he died long before making it there just like Anakin had the potential to be like Luke but didn't reach it because of the loss of his limbs.How so? I don't believe ESB Vader is any more powerful than before. And while Vader managed to defeat the Clone in lightsaber combat I think that's more down to the fact that he was attempting to get to Juno rather than defeat Vader and in turn Vader was using Juno as a Dun Moch technique to unbalance him. In such a situation, Starkiller would have not applied tactical thought in that battle, his only motives were to power through Vader to get to Juno. While on board the Death Star Starkiller shows a much more astute tactical mind, testing Vader's defenses, taunting him, chain lightning attacks etc. his aims are to defeat Vader, not to get past him. But yes, he died before he could reach his potential. But like Anakin had become more than powerful already. Edited June 9, 2013 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalonVII Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 This is my view, Starkiller was much stronger than vader was. Period. It's just Vader was able to stand his ground because he was vastly more experienced. But put Anakin Skywalker duing his duel with Obi-wan in EPIII vs Galen, Galen would mop the floor with him and try not to get any on his boots. At what 19-20ish when Galen took on the emperor, there is literally no contest to who is stronger. And Galen still hadn't gotten to his full potential. Oh no...Galen was stronger than Vader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tunewalker Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 How so? I don't believe ESB Vader is any more powerful than before. And while Vader managed to defeat the Clone in lightsaber combat I think that's more down to the fact that he was attempting to get to Juno rather than defeat Vader and in turn Vader was using Juno as a Dun Moch technique to unbalance him. In such a situation, Starkiller would have not applied tactical thought in that battle, his only motives were to power through Vader to get to Juno. While on board the Death Star Starkiller shows a much more astute tactical mind, testing Vader's defenses, taunting him, chain lightning attacks etc. his aims are to defeat Vader, not to get past him. But yes, he died before he could reach his potential. But like Anakin had become more than powerful already. Well we know that vader continued to train and get stronger all the way up until ROTJ in fact we know from discriptions of his training regiment especially after ESB that he upped the difficulty of his training to prep for his battle with his son...... Also you pretty much just stated Vader was more powerful then galen even in their first duel. Galen as you showed only won because Vader believed himself vastly superior to his opponent and punched himself out while galen saved his energy and did minimalist defense and taunting vader..... ultimately vader lost to galen for the same reason he lost to obi-wan so many years before, arrogance, something that did not plague him in the duel on kamino he learned not to underestimate his opponent and on that duel he was able to disarm and essentially defeat Galen only through a last second drop in his guard against an opponent he believed defeated AND galen redirecting power from the station did galen prevail...... to think that vader did not learn further would be completely contradictory to what we know about the character. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 (edited) Well we know that vader continued to train and get stronger all the way up until ROTJ in fact we know from discriptions of his training regiment especially after ESB that he upped the difficulty of his training to prep for his battle with his son...... Also you pretty much just stated Vader was more powerful then galen even in their first duel. Galen as you showed only won because Vader believed himself vastly superior to his opponent and punched himself out while galen saved his energy and did minimalist defense and taunting vader..... ultimately vader lost to galen for the same reason he lost to obi-wan so many years before, arrogance, something that did not plague him in the duel on kamino he learned not to underestimate his opponent and on that duel he was able to disarm and essentially defeat Galen only through a last second drop in his guard against an opponent he believed defeated AND galen redirecting power from the station did galen prevail...... to think that vader did not learn further would be completely contradictory to what we know about the character.I think I'd agree with TalonVII on this one, while Vader may be the more skilled and more experienced duelist. However skill with a lightsaber is not indicative of overall power, the fact remains that Marek is more powerful, which is partly the reason why he managed to defeat Vader on the Death Star, but also partly the reason why he lost on Kamino. Indeed on the Death Star neither party gained any real advantage in lightsaber combat, however when Marek become using his Force abilities Vader quickly faltered. While on Kamino he was too distracted by Juno to do anything but power through him - and it should also be noted here that he therefore sacrificed defense. If I were the analyse the two in a vs match, I'd say neither would gain an advantage in lightsaber combat. But Marek would eventually win out with his superior command of the Force. Making Marek overall, superior. Edited June 9, 2013 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Asavrede Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Yes, it makes me angry every time people make non-descriptive topics for their threads. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 (edited) Just above average Force user? Are we forgetting that this 'just above average Force user' changed the flight path of a Star Destroyer? Are we forgetting that this 'just above average Force user' defeated Shaak Ti, was of the most powerful Jedi of her age, and Darth Vader? And are we forgetting that it was this 'just about average Force user' who managed to absorb the full force of Sidious' lightning, something only Yoda was known to be able to do? Unlike others, I have no trouble excepting Marek for who he is. One of the most powerful Force users of his era, more powerful than Darth Vader and with the potential to rival Sidious. Yes he did, he was above average and as I recall. In slowing down the Star Destroyer, it nearly killed him. Yes he defeated Shaak Ti, however that was just due to his raw power not so much anything else. He beat Vader because he trained constantly with him, I would like to think the student would know his master's fighting style and thus not be surprised of anything he done. Yes...he was absorbing Sidious's lighting and then what happened? Was killed by it, when it all exploded. Galen wasn't more powerful then Vader, he just knew how his opponent fought. Even if Galen was, he was only at that time regardless. When I mean he was above average, I mean he was exceptional but he wasn't crazy powerful. His feats are impressive yes, but there are things behind to look at. In fact, ROTJ Luke could probably give Galen a run for his money. Edited June 9, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 (edited) Yes he did, he was above average and as I recall. In slowing down the Star Destroyer, it nearly killed him. Yes he defeated Shaak Ti, however that was just due to his raw power not so much anything else. He beat Vader because he trained constantly with him, I would like to think the student would know his master's fighting style and thus not be surprised of anything he done. Yes...he was absorbing Sidious's lighting and then what happened? Was killed by it, when it all exploded. Galen wasn't more powerful then Vader, he just knew how his opponent fought. Even if Galen was, he was only at that time regardless. When I mean he was above average, I mean he was exceptional but he wasn't crazy powerful. In fact, ROTJ Luke could probably give Galen a run for his money.Above average does not = exceptional I'd just like to point that out, above average is like, Ashoka Tano. Regardless I disagree with your evaluations: He defeated Shaak Ti due to raw power? Does that not indicate, well, power? This is Shaak Ti we are talking about here, master of legendary power and strength in the Force. Let's also remember that Ti had her Felucian warriors and a sarlaac to back her up. Concerning knowing Vader's fighting style, would this not work both ways? Would Vader not know his pupil's fighting style, which he trained him in, better than anyone? Better perhaps even than Marek himself? If anything this should be a boon to Vader just as it was a boon to Kenobi, and that's without considering the fact that Marek is only aware of a fraction of Vader's abilities, as any Sith master would be sure to keep their true ability concealed in sparring matches. Simply put, the student had surpassed the master. In fact I think the novel says as much. After all, if that were not the case, why would Sidious have wanted him as a replacement? And concerning Sidious' lighting, yes it killed him. But that's not what's important. What is important is that it exploded they reached an impasse. Now this is more likely because of the proximity of their hands rather than Marek's power. But the fact that Sidious was unable to overwhelm him would suggest that Marek was incredibly powerful. I mean, did the exact same thing not happen between Sidious and Yoda? The only difference being that the lightning intensity meant the ensuing explosion killed Marek. ROTJ Luke would have likely lost to Marek, which in turn is further testament to his ability as well, this is Luke Skywalker the most powerful Force user to be. He was certainly more powerful than Vader. And, I have no trouble believing with time he could have equaled Sidious. Edited June 9, 2013 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 (edited) Above average does not = exceptional I'd just like to point that out, above average is like, Ashoka Tano. Regardless I disagree with your evaluations: He defeated Shaak Ti due to raw power? Does that not indicate, well, power? This is Shaak Ti we are talking about here, master of legendary power and strength in the Force. Let's also remember that Ti had her Felucian warriors and a sarlaac to back her up. Concerning knowing Vader's fighting style, would this not work both ways? Would Vader not know his pupil's fighting style, which he trained him in better than anyone. Better perhaps even than Marek himself? If anything this should be a boon to Vader just as it was a boon to Kenobi, and that's without considering the fact that Marek is only aware of a fraction of Vader's abilities, as any Sith master would be sure to keep their true ability concealed in sparring matches. Simply put, the student had surpassed the master. In fact I think the novel says as much. After all, if that were not the case, why would Sidious have wanted him as a replacement? And concerning Sidious' lighting, yes it killed him. But anyone not immensely powerful in the Force would have been instantly overwhelmed and killed. The fact that Marek's lightning came close to matching Sidious, is a profound testament to his exceptional power in the Force. ROTJ Luke would have likely lost to Marek, which in turn is further testament to his ability as well, this is Luke Skywalker the most powerful Force user to be. He was certainly more powerful than Vader. Well I was meaning exceptional, yes it does show power just that Galen was more powerful then Ti. It would yes, the two were fighting pretty well against one another all it took was a certain point for Galen to get the win. As for Sidious wanting a replacement, he was looking for one anyway so why not him? Marek's lighting being close to Sidious? What? He didn't use lighting against Sidious, he was absorbing the lighting. Not really...ROTJ Luke would probably beat Galen. Edited June 9, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Well I was meaning exceptional, yes it does show power just that Galen was more powerful then Ti. It would yes, the two were fighting pretty well against one another all it took was a certain point for Galen to get the win. As for Sidious wanting a replacement, he was looking for one anyway so why not him? Marek's lighting being close to Sidious? What? He didn't use lighting against Sidious, he was absorbing the lighting. Not really...ROTJ Luke would probably beat Galen.Being more powerful than Shaak Ti, who we would assume became even more powerful on Felucia, would place him quite high in the rankings. And then defeating Vader, well then he jumps up a few more places. Sidious wanted a replacement, but he's not exactly going to choose a weaker Force user than the one he already has is he? He wanted a replacement, as saw Marek as the one because he was more powerful and had the potential to be vastly more powerful than Vader. Oh and I didn't realise that bit about lightning. Though the principles remain the same and it only allows us to make a comparison with Yoda, of which the results were the same. In fact, the vastness of the explosion would suggest a greater concentration of power. And given that Sidious' strength had not radically changed, we can only assume that it was coming from Marek. While this does not necessarily mean that Marek possesses greater strength in the Force than Yoda, as it was impart likely due to a lack of ability to control, it does point to vast strength in the Force indeed. And its unlikely that ROTJ would beat Galen, a few blasts of potent Force lightning and Luke would be writhing on the floor. With or without his lightsaber. Also remembering that it was only Vader's armour that protect Marek from wounding his flesh And finally we also have to remember that ultimately it was the dark side that allowed Luke to defeat Vader. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 (edited) Being more powerful than Shaak Ti, who we would assume became even more powerful on Felucia, would place him quite high in the rankings. And then defeating Vader, well then he jumps up a few more places. Sidious wanted a replacement, but he's not exactly going to choose a weaker Force user than the one he already has is he? He wanted a replacement, as saw Marek as the one because he was more powerful and had the potential to be vastly more powerful than Vader. Oh and I didn't realise that bit about lightning. Though the principles remain the same and it only allows us to make a comparison with Yoda, of which the results were the same. In fact, the vastness of the explosion would suggest a greater concentration of power. And given that Sidious' strength had not radically changed, we can only assume that it was coming from Marek. While this does not necessarily mean that Marek possesses greater strength in the Force than Yoda, as it was impart likely due to a lack of ability to control, it does point to vast strength in the Force indeed. And its unlikely that ROTJ would beat Galen, a few blasts of potent Force lightning and Luke would be writhing on the floor. With or without his lightsaber. Also remembering that it was only Vader's armour that protect Marek from wounding his flesh And finally we also have to remember that ultimately it was the dark side that allowed Luke to defeat Vader. Your right Sidious wouldn't however, he would also take one that was just as powerful and not limited by mechanical parts. It does yes but I don't think it was a concentration of power, it looked to me more like an overload of power and it all was just blasted out thus killing the Stormtroopers and Galen and leaving Sidious/Vader unharmed. Why is that? Just because Luke was hit with Sidious's lighting that means, anyone who uses lighting is going to beat Luke?....Right and what do you mean if he had a saber? If he knows about lighting, he can block it or absorb it as he did(abit brief) with Sidious's lighting, or dodge it using Force Speed. Yes it was the dark side that enabled to Luke to beat Vader....ok? So? ROTJ Vader > Pre-ANH Vader, Luke can probably beat Galen in a fight. Edited June 9, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TalonVII Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 Your right Sidious wouldn't however, he would also take one that was just as powerful and not limited by mechanical parts. It does yes but I don't think it was a concentration of power, it looked to me more like an overload of power and it all was just blasted out thus killing the Stormtroopers and Galen and leaving Sidious/Vader unharmed. Why is that? Just because Luke was hit with Sidious's lighting that means, anyone who uses lighting is going to beat Luke?....Right and what do you mean if he had a saber? If he knows about lighting, he can block it or absorb it as he did(abit brief) with Sidious's lighting, or dodge it using Force Speed. Yes it was the dark side that enabled to Luke to beat Vader....ok? So? ROTJ Vader > Pre-ANH Vader, Luke can probably beat Galen in a fight. I'd call Luke vs Galen a flip of a coin/any given sunday scenario. That battle literally could go either way IMO. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted June 9, 2013 Share Posted June 9, 2013 (edited) I'd call Luke vs Galen a flip of a coin/any given sunday scenario. That battle literally could go either way IMO. On one hand, I can agree but on the other I can see Luke edging out more of the victories if only slight, the fighting would be interesting though. I'd probably give it a 6/10. A little after ROTJ though, Luke would take more victories. Edited June 9, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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