BioWare – Why do you treat PvP like how the Empire treats aliens?

[MrJurgens]

oh oh i know!!!!!

 

they are lazy they are almost always bad players, and they blame their badness on everything but their own ability to play. It is always the gears fault the classes fault or something never the fact they are bad.

And the PvE'ers don't?

 

By the way, theoretically, a PvP would be better than a PvE player since PvP armor offers a PvP-only stat, and because a PvE player only participates in scripted fights.

 

But please, continue and I'll enlighten you more.

[MrJurgens]

How did you manage to be here on the forums since ´09 and have a registration number or 8427893. Seems very wierd to me.

 

Anyway, you have to wait until the "veteran PvP" community writes something, they clearly listens to them as the DEVs stated in a post a few days ago.

 

And...if you write exactly what change you want it will be easier to give feedback

I have my reasons for that # registration.

 

I've been PvPing in this game since December 13th, 2011. I think the only change PvP needs at this moment is that the devs acknowledge what needs to be added and fixed in SWTOR, and that very soon there will be some major changes coming to PvP.

 

I'm sick of seeing all the patches come with mostly Cartel-related information. I'm never going to buy the BS that's sold in the market, but only if I get CC gifts from others, as I have last Christmas and my previous birthday.

[Kontraz]

actauly it broke 2.5 it had the largest market share for nearly a year in the north american demographic. Just because you do not know how to use google to find that out does not make it false.

 

Source? Because to my knowledge it never was able to compete with WoW's numbers, and I say that as someone who is not a fan of WoW.

 

In fact, they (LOTRO) doubled their profits by going F2P, and even then they were leagues behind Blizzard's cash cow.

[Darth_Moonshadow]

And the PvE'ers don't?

 

By the way, theoretically, a PvP would be better than a PvE player since PvP armor offers a PvP-only stat, and because a PvE player only participates in scripted fights.

 

But please, continue and I'll enlighten you more.

 

No, PVE players complain that they finished their content and want more.

 

And PVP seems pretty scripted enough. Zone in, rush to mid, blow all your cooldowns until you die. Rinse, Repeat, cash the frickin' commendations.

 

If PVE is a movie, PVP is that crappy MTV Jersey Shore rip off. 12 strangers are placed in an area and they proceed to verbally and physically abuse one another.

[Hizoka]

And the PvE'ers don't?

 

By the way, theoretically, a PvP would be better than a PvE player since PvP armor offers a PvP-only stat, and because a PvE player only participates in scripted fights.

 

But please, continue and I'll enlighten you more.

 

see the whole PvPers thinking PvP is harder would make sense if 95% of the player base was not bad players. Fact is people screw up constantly.. How man times have you dueled someone only to hear "i lagged" or "i messed up let me get a do over?" Raid bosses never screw up they never "lag" and they are never made up of bad players.

 

PvP will always be easy when you almost always play aginst bad players.

 

Not to mention a PvP stat is the worst idea ever put into a video game. It causes regression not progression. The more PvP gear you have the less skill you need in order to beat a player. You do not progress you regress. Smart people know this so i see why you do not understand it.

[LrdRahvin]

Zone in, rush to mid, blow all your cooldowns until you die.

 

You're doing it wrong

 

Just sayin'

Edited June 10, 2013 by LrdRahvin

[Darth_Moonshadow]

You're doing it wrong

 

Just sayin'

 

"DUH NO, IT'S THE SERVER LAGGING! THE OTHER CLASS IS CLEARLY OVER POWERED! YOU'RE HACKING N00BZ! WHY DON'T YOU PLAY FAIR? YOUR MOM LIKES THE WAY I PLAY!"

 

Am I doing it right now?

[LrdRahvin]

"DUH NO, IT'S THE SERVER LAGGING! THE OTHER CLASS IS CLEARLY OVER POWERED! YOU'RE HACKING N00BZ! WHY DON'T YOU PLAY FAIR? YOUR MOM LIKES THE WAY I PLAY!"

 

Am I doing it right now?

 

Well, that's closer anyway

[Darth_Moonshadow]

Well, that's closer anyway

 

You are correct. One last tweak...

 

*ahem*

 

"Clearly Biofail doesn't care about my playstyle. Biosuck needs to listen to their paying customers because the customer is always right and if it wasn't for me, this game would be dead."

 

Perfect, no?

[LrdRahvin]

You are correct. One last tweak...

 

*ahem*

 

"Clearly Biofail doesn't care about my playstyle. Biosuck needs to listen to their paying customers because the customer is always right and if it wasn't for me, this game would be dead."

 

Perfect, no?

 

Actually, getting colder- I hate to be serious about anything in this game as for the most part I stopped taking this game, its' devs, and 99.9% of the community seriously a long time ago. All troll all the time now

 

But, to make an exception, I happen to be a pvp'er and I also happen to think EAWare is giving pretty short shrift to "my playstyle" (pve gear-crafted 54's- is STILL better than pvp gear so bolster has been broken for HOW long now?), I was just agreeing that most of the pvp community can be pretty obnoxious and childish But, then again, the pve community is pretty lame as well

Edited June 10, 2013 by LrdRahvin

[Kontraz]

see the whole PvPers thinking PvP is harder would make sense if 95% of the player base was not bad players. Fact is people screw up constantly.. How man times have you dueled someone only to hear "i lagged" or "i messed up let me get a do over?" Raid bosses never screw up they never "lag" and they are never made up of bad players.

 

PvP will always be easy when you almost always play aginst bad players.

 

Not to mention a PvP stat is the worst idea ever put into a video game. It causes regression not progression. The more PvP gear you have the less skill you need in order to beat a player. You do not progress you regress. Smart people know this so i see why you do not understand it.

 

Gear progression also keeps PvE content stagnant. You run an operation, which gets easier as you and your teammates get more gear. Once fully geared (and the content is too easy) you progress to the next version, rinse, repeat. Not saying it is easier or harder than PvP, just saying with PvP there is at least the chance for variation. The close matches or duels with players that meet or exceed your own skill level are where the thrill is. Stomping idiots leaves much to be desired, though I'm sure I don't speak for everyone.

[Hyfy]

No, PVE players complain that they finished their content and want more.

 

And PVP seems pretty scripted enough. Zone in, rush to mid, blow all your cooldowns until you die. Rinse, Repeat, cash the frickin' commendations.

 

If PVE is a movie, PVP is that crappy MTV Jersey Shore rip off. 12 strangers are placed in an area and they proceed to verbally and physically abuse one another.

 

Lol this got me to laugh pretty good. As such it's very fitting that I hate Jersey Shore too.

[brutall]

the pvp part of this game is lacking bad. when i dont raid i mostly pvp, and i would love a 4v4 arena system. and i know alot of ppl inn my guild want the samme.

 

my pvp dream for this game is

1: world pvp

2: arena! 4v4 or 3v3

3: 1vs1 duel rank system

4: more huttball maps!

5: 16 vs 16 wz

[Hizoka]

Gear progression also keeps PvE content stagnant. You run an operation, which gets easier as you and your teammates get more gear. Once fully geared (and the content is too easy) you progress to the next version, rinse, repeat. Not saying it is easier or harder than PvP, just saying with PvP there is at least the chance for variation. The close matches or duels with players that meet or exceed your own skill level are where the thrill is. Stomping idiots leaves much to be desired, though I'm sure I don't speak for everyone.

 

the thing is PvPers for the most part need the gear because they are the idiots that get stomped without it. PvEs progression is so that when you get the gear from one raid you are geared enough to start the next. Not to mention gear doesn't get you though a raid, anyone whos raided anything on nightmare will tell you that.

[Sziroten]

If SWTOR wouldn't have had PvP I myself would have quit some time ago. Instead I can fill a 16man raid with all my characters so that being sad... PvP can't be "that" bad in this game. However there are things which don't make sense and some people seem to not be able to understand the issue.

 

World PvP

 

• Is dead... god forbid but this game will never handle it any better than it did during Illum.
  
• 2 factions... imbalance incoming, no easy way to "balance" (3rd faction/ bolster?!)
  

 

Warzone PvP

 

• I enjoy them on all chars, some classes will always be "better" for some time, but Bioware did a fairly good job.
  
• Bolster is bugged and needs to be fixed.... best PvP gear = best gear for PvP or remove gear from pvp altogether and give fixed stats depending on your role (tank/ dd/ healer).
  
• More variety (more maps, more styles) and a choice which one you want to run.
  
• Arena PvP aka smaller warzone groups, something I would like to see
  
• Make your PvP rank mean something... more than just "you can equip this crafted pvp armor". If you could unlock different playstyles, there would be an initiative to level it specifically.
  

 

 

Ranked Warzones

 

• Cross-server queues
  
• Bolster does not apply
  
• stuck does not kill you (should be the same for regular warzones
  
• Respec disabled (in case you have open skillpoints, not possible to use them)
  
• (optional) fixed min/max amount of classes and tank/ dd/ heal is only available if you skilled a certain amount of points into these trees
  

 

Rankings

 

• Serverwide/ gamewide stat rankings (same could be applied to PvE).
  
• Serverwide/ gamewide position rankings for ranked warzones. (same could be applied to PvE)
  

 

Aside of that, I would like to see similar things just against PvE scripts.... no trash mobs, a single encounter (which can be several waves of several enemies however no "reggen" time in between), 1 vs. , 2 v.s, 4 vs., 8 vs., 16 vs. . Coupled with rankings and titles rather than "another" gear grind. This is clearly targeted to player which have close to the best equipment but gives initiative to other player to get equipment rather than participate in yet another re-worked and buffed up operation over and over again.

Edited June 10, 2013 by Sziroten

[rlamela]

the thing is PvPers for the most part need the gear because they are the idiots that get stomped without it. PvEs progression is so that when you get the gear from one raid you are geared enough to start the next. Not to mention gear doesn't get you though a raid, anyone whos raided anything on nightmare will tell you that.

 

PVE is way more gear dependent. It is why games allow you to kick undergeared players from your group. Seriously the only skill in pve is learning the boss's scripted actions. Once You know what boss will do and you pass the boss' Gear check it is easy mode. Hell I don't even have to do any PVE at all to get endgame gear. All I would have to do is log on to some gold farmers site buy credits and spam gen chat for crafters. ANd yet every day you are on here crying aboot how hard PVE is compared to PVP. At least I have to actually show up to get gear in pvp. Yet every comment you make is usually 90% false with a little truth thrown in. Yes alot of people who do pvp are garbage but guess what those are the casual pvp'ers who mostly do PVE while logged on.

 

Rellik

Edited June 10, 2013 by rlamela

[Sziroten]

PVE is way more gear dependent. It is why games allow you to kick undergeared players from your group. Seriously the only skill in pve is learning the boss's scripted actions. Once You know what boss will do and you pass the boss' Gear check it is easy mode. Hell I don't even have to do any PVE at all to get endgame gear. All I would have to do is log on to some gold farmers site buy credits and spam gen chat for crafters. ANd yet every day you are on here crying aboot how hard PVE is compared to PVP. At least I have to actually show up to get gear in pvp. Yet every comment you make is usually 90% false with a little truth thrown in. Yes alot of people who do pvp are garbage but guess what those are the casual pvp'ers who mostly do PVE while logged on.

 

Rellik

 

fyi.....you can't craft the best gear anymore and seeing people fail in dread guard gear in denova sm makes me scratch my head while we cleared the same in augmented rakata... .

 

The good thing for pvp is though that every warzone can be different purely on the way your team is playing. Operations are the same over and over again. At least SWTOR does not have stupid "locked" content which every member of your raid needs to "unlock" just to enter.

[rlamela]

fyi.....you can't craft the best gear anymore and seeing people fail in dread guard gear in denova sm makes me scratch my head while we cleared the same in augmented rakata... .

 

The good thing for pvp is though that every warzone can be different purely on the way your team is playing. Operations are the same over and over again. At least SWTOR does not have stupid "locked" content which every member of your raid needs to "unlock" just to enter.

 

where did i say best gear. i said endgame gear.

 

Rellik

Edited June 10, 2013 by rlamela

[Sziroten]

where did i say best gear. i said endgame gear.

 

Rellik

 

endgame gear = best gear available.... as talking about hardmode gear while there is a nightmare mod (with new gear) is hardly relevant.

[rlamela]

endgame gear = best gear available.... as talking about hardmode gear while there is a nightmare mod (with new gear) is hardly relevant.

 

no endgame gear is gear you get after leveling. You have different tiers of endgame gear. And when 2.2 hits you will be able to craft 72 gear since they are adding a new tier of endgame gear.

 

RELLIK

[Sziroten]

no endgame gear is gear you get after leveling. You have different tiers of endgame gear. And when 2.2 hits you will be able to craft 72 gear since they are adding a new tier of endgame gear.

 

RELLIK

 

72 won't be endgame gear then anymore. Just remember your statement above.... and while it was true for previous tiers, it is no longer for current endgame gear and as it looks Bioware is keeping this trend up for every new tier of endgame gear.

 

Anyway... less PvE and more PvP talk.

[Kontraz]

the thing is PvPers for the most part need the gear because they are the idiots that get stomped without it. PvEs progression is so that when you get the gear from one raid you are geared enough to start the next. Not to mention gear doesn't get you though a raid, anyone whos raided anything on nightmare will tell you that.

 

Yeah..... I sincerely doubt you've put forth any research whatsoever to allow you to quantify "PvPers for the most part". The entire purpose of PvP gear progression is for the hook - for a further incentive to continue playing. It is what keeps MMOs thriving.

 

By your same logic, they could eliminate further tiers of PvE gear and simply change the boss mechanics of nightmare modes. Then it would be 100% skill based across all fronts with no gear crutch. Nobody would have to gear up or gear grind - if you and your team is good enough, you just go in and have at it.

 

You get one set of gear at 55, and everything after that is just based on skill, for both PvE and PvP. If you aren't fond of the idea of the same princples being applied to PvE that are (more or less) being forced onto PvP, then you are nothing short of hypocritical. If you do agree, then I applaud you and would welcome such changes as well, however, as stated earlier, there still needs to be the allure of a proper hook for an MMO to function.

[MrJurgens]

If SWTOR wouldn't have had PvP I myself would have quit some time ago. Instead I can fill a 16man raid with all my characters so that being sad... PvP can't be "that" bad in this game. However there are things which don't make sense and some people seem to not be able to understand the issue.

 

World PvP

 

• Is dead... god forbid but this game will never handle it any better than it did during Illum.
  
• 2 factions... imbalance incoming, no easy way to "balance" (3rd faction/ bolster?!)
  

 

Warzone PvP

 

• I enjoy them on all chars, some classes will always be "better" for some time, but Bioware did a fairly good job.
  
• Bolster is bugged and needs to be fixed.... best PvP gear = best gear for PvP or remove gear from pvp altogether and give fixed stats depending on your role (tank/ dd/ healer).
  
• More variety (more maps, more styles) and a choice which one you want to run.
  
• Arena PvP aka smaller warzone groups, something I would like to see
  
• Make your PvP rank mean something... more than just "you can equip this crafted pvp armor". If you could unlock different playstyles, there would be an initiative to level it specifically.
  

 

 

Ranked Warzones

 

• Cross-server queues
  
• Bolster does not apply
  
• stuck does not kill you (should be the same for regular warzones
  
• Respec disabled (in case you have open skillpoints, not possible to use them)
  
• (optional) fixed min/max amount of classes and tank/ dd/ heal is only available if you skilled a certain amount of points into these trees
  

 

Rankings

 

• Serverwide/ gamewide stat rankings (same could be applied to PvE).
  
• Serverwide/ gamewide position rankings for ranked warzones. (same could be applied to PvE)
  

 

Aside of that, I would like to see similar things just against PvE scripts.... no trash mobs, a single encounter (which can be several waves of several enemies however no "reggen" time in between), 1 vs. , 2 v.s, 4 vs., 8 vs., 16 vs. . Coupled with rankings and titles rather than "another" gear grind. This is clearly targeted to player which have close to the best equipment but gives initiative to other player to get equipment rather than participate in yet another re-worked and buffed up operation over and over again.

You sir, have won the internet for today. I applaud you in making such a fantastic post. I've actually been meaning to make a petition sort-of thread for BW to bring back vanilla Ilum. In my opinion, it was way better than the so-called Ilum revamp and it's just the best WPvP SWTOR will get at the moment.

 

I'm really hoping others would be open to the idea as well.

[Alavastre]

I had a funny post. But seeing you did list ways to improve pvp later in the thread, I'm taking it back. Edited June 10, 2013 by Alavastre

[MrJurgens]

Yeah..... I sincerely doubt you've put forth any research whatsoever to allow you to quantify "PvPers for the most part". The entire purpose of PvP gear progression is for the hook - for a further incentive to continue playing. It is what keeps MMOs thriving.

 

By your same logic, they could eliminate further tiers of PvE gear and simply change the boss mechanics of nightmare modes. Then it would be 100% skill based across all fronts with no gear crutch. Nobody would have to gear up or gear grind - if you and your team is good enough, you just go in and have at it.

 

You get one set of gear at 55, and everything after that is just based on skill, for both PvE and PvP. If you aren't fond of the idea of the same princples being applied to PvE that are (more or less) being forced onto PvP, then you are nothing short of hypocritical. If you do agree, then I applaud you and would welcome such changes as well, however, as stated earlier, there still needs to be the allure of a proper hook for an MMO to function.

Don't worry about Hizoka. S/he is very misinformed when it comes to PvP, and usually bashes it. Must be a carebear.

 

Regardless, I thank you for this response. I recently stopped PvPing after 2.0 hit. It's been nothing but a clusterf**k. It's nothing but to waste your time on, and I even heard they're releasing a new tier if PvP gear in 2.4. I wonder if Partisan will be the new Recruit. I hope so, but I hate PvPing in my now PvE EWH gear and BH drops with my other toons.

 

PvP just tanked overall for me, and if it doesn't improve I don't think I'll ever be coming back to this game.