Seihk Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 So I've enjoyed leveling as balance quite a bit. I like not having to worry about positioning, and having strong projects. I enjoy hitting a group of 4 npcs and dropping 3 of them in about 10 seconds. I really like the spec for grinding and leveling. However, I'm very concerned about the potency of the spec in endgame (and even in flashpoints in general) due to one major factor: Our spec seems like it's built around Force in Balance buffing our dot damage. This concept is very flawed for two reasons. One, in a situation where you have to make sure you aren't breaking CC, it becomes extremely tedious to place the AoE in such a way that it hits your target and doesn't break the nearby CC'd targets. The other, more concerning, problem I see is that Force in Balance charges are consumed by everyone elses dots as well. The buff gives us 20% more damage on our dots (and hopefully does the same for others, considering they eat the charges too!) and since we do a decent amount of damage over time...it seems counterproductive that other classes consume your charges. In a 4man heroic quest group the stacks were falling off in about 3-5 seconds...I'd hate to see how it goes in an Operation. Please Devs, look in to this. Maybe replace Force in Balance with a single-target ability that does the same things and move Force in Balance to a base ability. Anybody else share my concern? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Van_BlanK Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 damage is damage. if our debuff helps everyone in the group kill faster, why would that not be a viable option for the group? not to mention our CC and utility. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillEverson Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 So you don't use FiB for trash pulls. Whoopety-doo. For starters: 1) There are no damage meters. 2) People who care about damage meters have small pe- egos. DO you do your job? Yes, or No? As for the AOE targeting, I agree its clunky. But we'll get used to it. As for other people's DoTs eating our charges: I'm not sure they do. "...increasing the amount of damage done by YOUR next 10 periodic damaging abilities...". That being said, maybe it is being consumed by everyone. If so, let's find out, shouldn't be too hard. Cast FiB but no DoTs, have someone else DoT the target and see. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seihk Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share Posted December 23, 2011 As for the AOE targeting, I agree its clunky. But we'll get used to it. As for other people's DoTs eating our charges: I'm not sure they do. "...increasing the amount of damage done by YOUR next 10 periodic damaging abilities...". That being said, maybe it is being consumed by everyone. If so, let's find out, shouldn't be too hard. Cast FiB but no DoTs, have someone else DoT the target and see. 1) I'm not sure why people get so defensive when somebody brings a legitimate concern to the forums. I'm not saying that I'm not enjoying the game, and I love the spec. I just wanted to point out an inherent flaw in the design. 2) So it's your belief that we should just "get used to" a clunky dps rotation? Clunky rotations should be tweaked to increase their functionality instead of having people just "get used to it." I'm not saying that people shouldn't have to learn a rotation, but when most of the people who have played the spec believe that it is clunky in design, I think the devs should take a look. 3) I'm certain that other people's dots eat our charges. As I said in my original post, in a 4-man heroic group two days back, my charges were gone in a matter of 3-5 seconds. When I solo they typically last almost the full duration. A debuff that's intended to buff our dot damage shouldn't be stripped by other people. Doing 20% more dot damage for 3-5 seconds is useless. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralFire Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 (edited) So you don't use FiB for trash pulls. Whoopety-doo. For starters: 1) There are no damage meters. 2) People who care about damage meters have small pe- egos. DO you do your job? Yes, or No? As for the AOE targeting, I agree its clunky. But we'll get used to it. As for other people's DoTs eating our charges: I'm not sure they do. "...increasing the amount of damage done by YOUR next 10 periodic damaging abilities...". That being said, maybe it is being consumed by everyone. If so, let's find out, shouldn't be too hard. Cast FiB but no DoTs, have someone else DoT the target and see. 1) There's more to combat metrics than damage meters. I have a big wall of text on this if you want me to. 2) AoE targeting is alright with a good bind. I disagree with the OP entirely on this point - I have no trouble positioning FiB usually. It's frankly our best skill. 3) They do indeed eat your charges, but I don't particularly mind because a Sage will have higher damage DoTs anyway, so it's higher total damage contribution. What you would propose would be a serious nerf to FiB; no. Edited December 23, 2011 by AstralFire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khadroth Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 (edited) 3) They do indeed eat your charges, but I don't particularly mind because a Sage will have higher damage DoTs anyway, so it's higher total damage contribution. What you would propose would be a serious nerf to FiB; no. Sages also have their potency charges eaten too by undesirable spells, so we're in the same boat. Edited December 23, 2011 by Khadroth Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralFire Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Sages also have their potency charges eaten too by undesirable spells, so we're in the same boat. Sage ticks much faster (higher Mind Crush uptime, more alacrity) so the bulk of the damage will go to the Sage in a group. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Khadroth Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 Sage ticks much faster (higher Mind Crush uptime, more alacrity) so the bulk of the damage will go to the Sage in a group. But ultimately at least it's still improving the Sage's dot dmg right? So it's still a good thing then as it helps the group either way. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AstralFire Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 (edited) But ultimately at least it's still improving the Sage's dot dmg right? So it's still a good thing then as it helps the group either way. This is my standpoint as well. The Sage will have higher damage on their DoTs usually anyway. Weaken Mind is stronger than Force Breach, as I recall. 120% of 50 is better than 120% of 45. Edited December 23, 2011 by AstralFire Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillEverson Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 1) I'm not sure why people get so defensive when somebody brings a legitimate concern to the forums. I'm not saying that I'm not enjoying the game, and I love the spec. I just wanted to point out an inherent flaw in the design. 2) So it's your belief that we should just "get used to" a clunky dps rotation? Clunky rotations should be tweaked to increase their functionality instead of having people just "get used to it." I'm not saying that people shouldn't have to learn a rotation, but when most of the people who have played the spec believe that it is clunky in design, I think the devs should take a look. 3) I'm certain that other people's dots eat our charges. As I said in my original post, in a 4-man heroic group two days back, my charges were gone in a matter of 3-5 seconds. When I solo they typically last almost the full duration. A debuff that's intended to buff our dot damage shouldn't be stripped by other people. Doing 20% more dot damage for 3-5 seconds is useless. I didn't mean to get snippy with you, and I apologize. I'm pretty sure I respended while waiting in a 3 hour queue, and you got hit with AOE frustration... I don't believe we "should have to" get used to a clunky mechanic, but i also se the value in the mechanic outside of single target DPS. As a predominantly PvE player, I wouldn't mind it being a single target debuffing damage sability, but as the AoE template is useful to other players, particularly in PvP, I will adjust. I'm not out to "nerf them so I can get better," but to each his own... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
BillEverson Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 But ultimately at least it's still improving the Sage's dot dmg right? So it's still a good thing then as it helps the group either way. Ultimately, at least as far as i am reading the skill descriptions, we are losing our main force regeneration boost. "Consuming a Force Suppression charge restores 2 force." Reading that in English - not extrapolating it into mechanics, which I admit may be different - would say that whomever's DoTs consume the charge gains 2 force. I don't mind so much that others take advantage of my charges, after all, if the boss dies the boss dies. Losing the force regeneration, however, will severely diminish what we can do. Losing, say, 60% of our charges to other players, costs us 12 force every 15 seconds. Is anyone ok with that? Now, I will freely admit that this may be a case of the developers not understanding how to write (English, I mean, not code). After all, Force Suppression says "increasing the amount of damage the targets suffer from your next 10 periodic damaging abilities" when we have established that that is not, in fact, the case. So maybe, whenever a charge is consumed I gain the force regardless of the origin of the consumption. If that is the case, I'm fine with that. But is it so much to ask for tool tips to be accurate? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Poisonsenvy Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 (edited) To the OP just use another spec until they polish balance. I'm running this spec @ 50 I'm sure its one of the top dps builds atm as far as I can tell being w/o combat meters. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601Mc0cZhGbRkhMrtzZ0M.1 Edited December 23, 2011 by Poisonsenvy Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
NightcrawlerQ Posted December 23, 2011 Share Posted December 23, 2011 wow, i just let ppl complain, personally other then the massive queue lines that are being fixed, I don't see anything wrong with things the way they are. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Seihk Posted December 23, 2011 Author Share Posted December 23, 2011 (edited) To the OP just use another spec until they polish balance. I'm running this spec @ 50 I'm sure its one of the top dps builds atm as far as I can tell being w/o combat meters. http://www.torhead.com/skill-calc#601Mc0cZhGbRkhMrtzZ0M.1 I don't want to play another spec because I still enjoy playing balance. @AstralFire, I don't disagree with your points. If the damage is going to the raid in general than it shouldn't make much of a difference overall, but Balance dps still suffers in the end due to it. All I'm asking for is to seperate the mechanics, put the 20% dot debuff on something that maybe lasts a bit longer, or procs when we use an ability (similar to how project procs our 10% damage buff). I love the spec and I love having that AoE for Warzones especially. I just don't think that the design is very polished as is and could use some tweaking. Edited December 23, 2011 by Seihk Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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