Scoundrel/Operative Roll

[tomofoureleven]

T

 

gap closer without a cooldown > gap closer on a cooldown

 

 

 

Force leap vs Scamper

AGAIN because no one understands

 

30-10m range>12m range

Not affected by slows> range is halfed by slows (HOLDING THE HUTBALL COUNTS AS THIS SLOW)

Generates resources> costs resources

Provides 10% damage boost>?

Roots the target> ?

Interrupts target > ?

Does damage> does no damage

 

15 sec cool down < no cool down (add a cool down and scamper would be worthless)

Cannot be used out of combat<can be used out of combat

Edited May 30, 2013 by tomofoureleven

[ronniehenlau]

any heal > no heal

 

stealth > no stealth (this includes vanish)

 

gap closer without a cooldown > gap closer on a cooldown

 

So since marauder are not heal classes, you can spec for stun/ root immunity along with being able to make an equivalent number of rolls as sorcs force speed can run before it's put on a cooldown.

 

Pointing out a bug which is still used by some cover classes players currently doesn't make it any less of an advantage on life servers. (needs to be fixed)

 

Comparing operatives to sorcs is a poor comparison. That's like comparing marauders to snipers (both are pure dps classes). However, since you're at it:

 

Sorcs have:

Bubbles - Shields for ~4-6k (depending on spec)

Force Barrier - Immune to all damage for 10 seconds

Force Speed - 2 seconds 150% (2.5 in healing tree)

Cooldown making them immune to interrupts + granting +20% alacrity

Recklessness - Increases crit change by 60% for next 2 abilities used

Friendly pull - 30m pull of any friendly target

Knockback (root if talented) - Frontal cone knockback, 15m radius iirc

 

Operatives have:

Shield Probe - Without beeing specced into it: 921 + 259% * (healing Bonus from tech). So with 1000 healing bonus, that means it shields for ~3.5k damage. Amazeballs.

Evasion - Immune to all white damage for 3 seconds, cleanses negative effects. YAY

Scamper (12m, 6m if slowed) - Good ability, but easily shut down w/ slows.

Cooldown giving -1- TA, +10% alacrity

 

I'll trade scamper-cooldown for knockback, friendly pull, recklessness and swapping evasion with force barrier plox.

 

Regarding the bug, yes it does give an advantage, no the game should not be balanced around it. Should it be fixed? Deffo.

[FrumpytheClown]

OP or not. I will avoid that heated point. So I have one question: If someone who uses the Force is slower than those who roll, how does that make sense?

Answer, it doesn't.

Edited May 30, 2013 by FrumpytheClown

[ronniehenlau]

OP or not. I will avoid that heated point. So I have one question: If someone who uses the Force is slower than those who roll, how does that make sense?

Answer, it doesn't. A cloaker (already OP) can now roll so far and so fast, MUCH MORE so than someone who uses Force Run?

And slowing them doesn't matter if they get to the hutt ball first and pass it to their team. Plus they can roll with the ball. Plus they can roll through fire without taking damage. I can slow them but it is moot since their mission is already accomplished. The passed the ball (or rolled through the fire with it without taking damage), the capture a point in Alderaan or Novara.

OP much?

 

Who got the ball / node first was -always- decided by class composition. How you bads fail to realize that is beyond me.

 

Before, who got the ball / node first was decided thusly:

Does both teams have an assassin?

No --> The team with the assassin got it first

Yes:

Does both teams have a marauder?

No --> The team with the assassin w/ predation from marauder wins

Yes:

Is the marauder on both teams carnage spec?

No --> The team with the carnage marauder gets it first, due to faster predation

Yes --> Its a washup.

 

Now:

Does both teams have an operative?

No: team with operative gets it first

Yes:

Does both teams have a marauder?

No --> The team with the operative w/ predation from marauder wins

Yes:

Is the marauder on both teams carnage spec?

No --> The team with the carnage marauder gets it first, due to faster predation

Yes --> Its a washup.

 

See? You only swap out the word 'assassin' with 'operative'. Dont have to change anything beyond that.

[FrumpytheClown]

Who got the ball / node first was -always- decided by class composition. How you bads fail to realize that is beyond me.

 

Before, who got the ball / node first was decided thusly:

Does both teams have an assassin?

No --> The team with the assassin got it first

Yes:

Does both teams have a marauder?

No --> The team with the assassin w/ predation from marauder wins

Yes:

Is the marauder on both teams carnage spec?

No --> The team with the carnage marauder gets it first, due to faster predation

Yes --> Its a washup.

 

Now:

Does both teams have an operative?

No: team with operative gets it first

Yes:

Does both teams have a marauder?

No --> The team with the operative w/ predation from marauder wins

Yes:

Is the marauder on both teams carnage spec?

No --> The team with the carnage marauder gets it first, due to faster predation

Yes --> Its a washup.

 

See? You only swap out the word 'assassin' with 'operative'. Dont have to change anything beyond that.

 

I realize you have one of the classes in question so obviously your opinion doesn't matter. Notice that both classes you mentioned USE THE FORCE! You cannot out pace an Op or Scoundrel with the roll. That makes no sense.

Edited May 30, 2013 by FrumpytheClown

[JP_Legatus]

The problem with this ability is how much faster it is than normal speed.

 

Imagine you were up against a team of powertechs, mercs, and juggernauts and you had 3 operatives and a marauder on your team in a civil war. They literally have no chance of interrupting and all 3 nodes are capped before they can even interrupt the caps. How about novarre? The operative could probably get to the off node before the slow walker even got 1 tick off the timer.

 

Literally the only reason this move isn't seen as being more broken is because of the number of inquisitors and warriors playing this game. If force speed/predation/leap wasn't available on everyone's first and second toon, EVERY civil war would be won by the team with more operatives, and only a convenient teamwipe all at once (or some SERIOUS derping by the guards) would affect the outcome at all.

 

Compare that to force speed or predation or leap and it's not nearly the same: even if I have force speed and you don't, you still have a chance to interrupt me from finishing my 8s cast with a ranged ability of some kind, because it isn't so comparatively fast that I'm going 20x normal speed of everyone else.

 

Frankly considering balance I don't feel operatives needed this roll at all (just like I don't think snipers needed one), but at least the sniper roll doesn't make them able to cap nodes before normal speed players can even reach 30m of the node. It's so beyond broken that I can't see how something like this ever makes it past the PTS, but hell, after a year of smash it still isn't nerfed, so I can't say I'm surprised. I'll just continue to reroll into an op class (smash jugg, sniper, operative) as needed since nobody listens to reason.

 

Anyways TL;DR - I don't think an ability should exist that allows people in warzones to move THAT MUCH FASTER than the normal walking speed for that long. Some extra movespeed is one thing, but that roll is way unbalanced compared to the normal move speed.

Edited May 30, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[ronniehenlau]

I realize you have one of the classes in question so obviously your opinion doesn't matter. Notice that both classes you mentioned USE THE FORCE! You cannot out pace an Op or Scoundrel with the roll. That makes no sense.

 

I have the following characters at 50/55:

Marauder

Operative

Mercenary

Powertech

Sorcerer

Sniper

Juggernaut

Shadow

Scoundrel

Sentinel

 

Please tell me again how my opinion is invalid?

 

Also, RP-section is ----> That way

[FrumpytheClown]

Who got the ball / node first was -always- decided by class composition. How you bads fail to realize that is beyond me.

 

Before, who got the ball / node first was decided thusly:

Does both teams have an assassin?

No --> The team with the assassin got it first

Yes:

Does both teams have a marauder?

No --> The team with the assassin w/ predation from marauder wins

Yes:

Is the marauder on both teams carnage spec?

No --> The team with the carnage marauder gets it first, due to faster predation

Yes --> Its a washup.

 

Now:

Does both teams have an operative?

No: team with operative gets it first

Yes:

Does both teams have a marauder?

No --> The team with the operative w/ predation from marauder wins

Yes:

Is the marauder on both teams carnage spec?

No --> The team with the carnage marauder gets it first, due to faster predation

Yes --> Its a washup.

 

See? You only swap out the word 'assassin' with 'operative'. Dont have to change anything beyond that.

 

I am heading to bed, but in case you wonder, insulted, why your opinion doesn't matter on this subject is two points. 1; You have had ample opportunity to give a counter point as to why that ability is NOT over powered but instead all you have shown is BIOWARE is bad a balancing classes. Secondly by calling people "BAD" because they are left astounded, at such a ridiculous ability that makes no sense.

We get you disagree, but since you cannot show a valid reason why the ability is not over powered your time is done. Please sit down and let the adults speak now.

[JP_Legatus]

Who got the ball / node first was -always- decided by class composition. How you bads fail to realize that is beyond me.

 

Before, who got the ball / node first was decided thusly:

Does both teams have an assassin?

No --> The team with the assassin got it first

Yes:

Does both teams have a marauder?

No --> The team with the assassin w/ predation from marauder wins

Yes:

Is the marauder on both teams carnage spec?

No --> The team with the carnage marauder gets it first, due to faster predation

Yes --> Its a washup.

 

Now:

Does both teams have an operative?

No: team with operative gets it first

Yes:

Does both teams have a marauder?

No --> The team with the operative w/ predation from marauder wins

Yes:

Is the marauder on both teams carnage spec?

No --> The team with the carnage marauder gets it first, due to faster predation

Yes --> Its a washup.

 

See? You only swap out the word 'assassin' with 'operative'. Dont have to change anything beyond that.

 

Your argument isn't even remotely true at all. The only true thing is that in huttball, the sin/sorc got the ball first. Even in that instance, it is possible to stop the fast mover with a leap root while someone else gets the ball. In civil war, novarre, voidstar, and hypergate, the sin/sorc cannot get to the node and cap it before a juggernaut or merc/pt interrupted the first attempt. Yes they would arrive first, but with the 8s cap timer they wouldn't finish before being interrupted by a slow mover with some 30m ability (leap, rapid shots/etc). This is normal play.

 

What is NOT normal play, is for operatives to get to the node in the civil war AND cap it before a merc, jug, or pt could interrupt it regardless of what they do. In novarre, the operatives can now interrupt a single tick of the OFF NODE under the right circumstances, while the other class has 0 chance of doing the same to their own off node.

Edited May 30, 2013 by JP_Legatus

[FrumpytheClown]

I have the following characters at 50/55:

Marauder

Operative

Mercenary

Powertech

Sorcerer

Sniper

Juggernaut

Shadow

Scoundrel

Sentinel

 

Please tell me again how my opinion is invalid?

 

Also, RP-section is ----> That way

 

LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL!

Also.... LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL! Now how will I sleep if I can't catch my breath?

[dufox]

the only thing i find annoying about the roll is they can roll with the ball in huttball.

 

the only reason i find that annoying is because if a sorc uses his 51 shield it resets the ball.

 

either the scoundrel should reset the ball when he roll's or the sorc's shield should not reset the ball.

its not that big of a deal but i dont see why a sorc's shield is considered OP enough to reset the ball while the operatives roll is not.

 

im not QQ'ing, i just dont see the logic behind that decision.

[FrumpytheClown]

Your argument isn't even remotely true at all. The only true thing is that in huttball, the sin/sorc got the ball first. Even in that instance, it is possible to stop the fast mover with a leap root while someone else gets the ball. In civil war, novarre, voidstar, and hypergate, the sin/sorc cannot get to the node and cap it before a juggernaut or merc/pt interrupted the first attempt. Yes they would arrive first, but with the 8s cap timer they wouldn't finish before being interrupted by a slow mover. This is normal play.

 

What is NOT normal play, is for operatives to get to the node in the civil war AND cap it before a merc, jug, or pt could interrupt it regardless of what they do. In novarre, the operatives can now interrupt a single tick of the OFF NODE under the right circumstances, while the other class has 0 chance of doing the same to their own off node.

 

What he said.

[FrumpytheClown]

the only thing i find annoying about the roll is they can roll with the ball in huttball.

 

the only reason i find that annoying is because if a sorc uses his 51 shield it resets the ball.

 

either the scoundrel should reset the ball when he roll's or the sorc's shield should not reset the ball.

its not that big of a deal but i dont see why a sorc's shield is considered OP enough to reset the ball while the operatives roll is not.

 

im not QQ'ing, i just dont see the logic behind that decision.

 

How dare you search for logic.

[Kontraz]

I don't think the roll is really *that* overpowered. I do, however, doubt the development team intended it to be used for anything other than a gap closer or escape mechanic. Utilizing it in such a way seems perfectly fine. The problem that I (and I presume others) have been encountering is the use of scamper for pure mobility.

 

I have seen a team of two scoundrels cap both side nodes in Civil War uncontested since nobody on the other team could get there fast enough. Even with a sorc's force speed, a ranged attack still posed as a potential interrupt, but not against multiple scampers.

 

Another instance is cloaking + scamper in Huttball. While there are some claiming that scamper is lessened to its 6m "slowed" variant while the Huttball is being held, I would like to see evidence of this, as unless it has been updated, from what I can tell it is still 12m. What I am seeing happen in huttball is a cloaked scoundrel waiting on the upper rafters overlooking mid. A teammate grabs the ball, throws towards him. Immediate scamper through fire pit, followed by second immediate scamper to ramp edge. Third scamper past the lower fire pit, then fourth scamper to score. "but now we are out of energy" In objective PvP, it doesn't matter if you die after accomplishing your objective.

 

Yes, it is affected by snares. The problem I've seen deals with game mechanics on two levels, both in favor (again, from what I've seen) of the scoundrel. These are latency and positioning. If I spot a scoundrel that is 22 meters out and cast a snare while he is using scamper, it tends to not actually affect the scoundrel as the latency considers him now at 35 meters.

 

again, using the ability once is not the problem. There are methods to counter this. Using it 4-6 times breaks the system. I would be all for the removal of any energy cost if the ability was given a short (five to ten second) GCD

[ronniehenlau]

I am heading to bed, but in case you wonder, insulted, why your opinion doesn't matter on this subject is two points.

 

1; You have had ample opportunity to give a counter point as to why that ability is NOT over powered but instead all you have shown is BIOWARE is bad a balancing classes.

Secondly by calling people "BAD" because they are left astounded, at such a ridiculous ability that makes no sense.

 

We get you disagree, but since you cannot show a valid reason why the ability is not over powered your time is done. Please sit down and let the adults speak now.

 

1: I have given lots of counter arguments, however, people choose to ignore them. I will repeat myself a bit: Im fine with a cooldown, if:

Range is increased to ~30m

Regenerates 25% of total energy

Unaffected by snares

Can choose where I want to land.

12-15s CD

 

2: I call people bad when they fail to realize how easy it is to counter. Yes, an operative -will- get to the node in ACW sooner than someone without a gap closer. Offnode, no.

Pre-2.0 on my carnage marauder w/ predation, I could barely get to the offnode to beat snipers (without their gap closer).

Assassins and sorcs, if they positioned themselves bad, yes, I would get to them. Otherwise, no, they got the cap before I could intercept.

 

In addition, most often 2 people are sent to the main node, one to intercept, one to cap. Considering movement slows down in stealth etc, most operatives do this out of stealth, or have to break stealth to get to the node quick enough to intercept. Proceed to root / pull / mezz / w/e.

 

Concerning your last point, trying to proclaim yourself, and only those with your opinion, as adults, while answering 'LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL' to a post, is laughable.

 

Yes, I do disagree with your points. Does that automatically make me a child?

 

(P.S: Can you please paragraph your posts more? Its very hard trying to follow your train of thought when you write a block of text in the manner you wrote that one.)

 

Few more points:

I call people bad when they fail to realize that a slow is a hard-counter to this roll. Your arguments were 'OMG OPERATIVES SHOULD NOT BE FASTER THAN FORCE USERS'. How is that argument more valid than the ones I make?

Some of the people in this thread are indeed giving proper points as to why scamper needs to be changed. I would personally accept a change without huge issues, as long as operatives would gain something in return for the cooldown. Removing the energy cost is not enough, there needs to be more features added to it proportionally with the seconds of cooldown added.

 

Kontraz:

Carrying the huttball = slow. I rolled myself into the fire many many times because of that. It might not seem like it, but it does indeed slow you so you roll 6m. I'll try getting a screencap of it later on.

 

I disagree with you on the latency helping the scoundrel, I can't even begin to tell you the amount of rubberbanding that has happened to me due to latency beeing favoured against me.

Edited May 30, 2013 by ronniehenlau

[Kontraz]

1: I have given lots of counter arguments, however, people choose to ignore them. I will repeat myself a bit: Im fine with a cooldown, if:

Range is increased to ~30m

Regenerates 25% of total energy

Unaffected by snares

Can choose where I want to land.

12-15s CD

 

2: I call people bad when they fail to realize how easy it is to counter. Yes, an operative -will- get to the node in ACW sooner than someone without a gap closer. Offnode, no.

Pre-2.0 on my carnage marauder w/ predation, I could barely get to the offnode to beat snipers (without their gap closer).

Assassins and sorcs, if they positioned themselves bad, yes, I would get to them. Otherwise, no, they got the cap before I could intercept.

 

In addition, most often 2 people are sent to the main node, one to intercept, one to cap. Considering movement slows down in stealth etc, most operatives do this out of stealth, or have to break stealth to get to the node quick enough to intercept. Proceed to root / pull / mezz / w/e.

 

Concerning your last point, trying to proclaim yourself, and only those with your opinion, as adults, while answering 'LOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOLOL' to a post, is laughable.

 

Yes, I do disagree with your points. Does that automatically make me a child?

 

(P.S: Can you please paragraph your posts more? Its very hard trying to follow your train of thought when you write a block of text in the manner you wrote that one.)

 

Few more points:

I call people bad when they fail to realize that a slow is a hard-counter to this roll. Your arguments were 'OMG OPERATIVES SHOULD NOT BE FASTER THAN FORCE USERS'. How is that argument more valid than the ones I make?

Some of the people in this thread are indeed giving proper points as to why scamper needs to be changed. I would personally accept a change without huge issues, as long as operatives would gain something in return for the cooldown. Removing the energy cost is not enough, there needs to be more features added to it proportionally with the seconds of cooldown added.

 

Kontraz:

Carrying the huttball = slow. I rolled myself into the fire many many times because of that. It might not seem like it, but it does indeed slow you so you roll 6m. I'll try getting a screencap of it later on.

 

I disagree with you on the latency helping the scoundrel, I can't even begin to tell you the amount of rubberbanding that has happened to me due to latency beeing favoured against me.

 

What you are wanting in replacement of a short cooldown is nothing short of absurd. If it is not already overpowered, that list of demands would put it well beyond any other singular ability currently in the game.

 

Using six scampers consecutively can get you to the off-node uncontested with relative ease.

 

As far as the snare effect of huttball, I do know that it still has the snare "applied" but from what I've read elsewhere (will try to find the topic, but I don't think it was confirmed with video) it is bugged and still grants the 12m movement.

[OpeningToEndgame]

They see me rolling, they aint slowing.

 

 

Hahahahaa!

[ronniehenlau]

What you are wanting in replacement of a short cooldown is nothing short of absurd. If it is not already overpowered, that list of demands would put it well beyond any other singular ability currently in the game.

 

Using six scampers consecutively can get you to the off-node uncontested with relative ease.

 

As far as the snare effect of huttball, I do know that it still has the snare "applied" but from what I've read elsewhere (will try to find the topic, but I don't think it was confirmed with video) it is bugged and still grants the 12m movement.

 

All of the things I listed are currently in-game already. All of them except one on a single class (warrior/knight), with the same cd (12-15s). The only difference is that we can choose where to land, rather than going to a target. Could easily go for the same as warriors to (needs a target). Thing is, as I pointed out further into my post, it can't just be reduction /removal of energy cost. As has been pointed out previously in this thread, warrios have:

- 30m range

- Builds resource

- Up on edges etc etc

- Juggs can chain to a 60m charge, + intercede, total of 90m gap closer in 4GCDs. (Requires special cirumstances, but theoretically possible)

- Interrupt

- Roots

 

You can't just take away our resource cost, add a CD and call it balanced. If that's what you call balanced, I'd say all the gap closers / escapes needs to be revised and get a lower range.

 

Re. the snare in huttball, when I try rolling with it, I only roll 6m at least. It might bug at times, I can't say, as I never roll with it for a long distance, but I've never as far as I've seen rolled further than 6m. :-)

[Kontraz]

All of the things I listed are currently in-game already. All of them except one on a single class (warrior/knight), with the same cd (12-15s). The only difference is that we can choose where to land, rather than going to a target. Could easily go for the same as warriors to (needs a target). Thing is, as I pointed out further into my post, it can't just be reduction /removal of energy cost. As has been pointed out previously in this thread, warrios have:

- 30m range

- Builds resource

- Up on edges etc etc

- Juggs can chain to a 60m charge, + intercede, total of 90m gap closer in 4GCDs. (Requires special cirumstances, but theoretically possible)

- Interrupt

- Roots

 

You can't just take away our resource cost, add a CD and call it balanced. If that's what you call balanced, I'd say all the gap closers / escapes needs to be revised and get a lower range.

 

Re. the snare in huttball, when I try rolling with it, I only roll 6m at least. It might bug at times, I can't say, as I never roll with it for a long distance, but I've never as far as I've seen rolled further than 6m. :-)

 

The roll is most commonly compared to the force speed, which is on a 20 second cooldown (15 if specced), costs zero energy, but grants zero energy, and is not an instantaneous teleport.

 

To make demands of similar skills to a juggernaut is ridiculous. Their intercede is used as a tanking move (something not needed for scoundrels) and they require the second gap closer as they do not have a second method - IE stealth. Additionally, it builds energy because they are a negative energy class. IE - they have zero energy for attacks and must build energy first before being able to attack. A gap closer with no build for them would simply put them in the line of fire with nothing to do other than be attacked.

 

There would be nothing wrong with a 5second cooldown on scamper so long as it had no energy cost.

[Seireeni]

The roll is most commonly compared to the force speed, which is on a 20 second cooldown (15 if specced), costs zero energy, but grants zero energy, and is not an instantaneous teleport.

 

To make demands of similar skills to a juggernaut is ridiculous. Their intercede is used as a tanking move (something not needed for scoundrels) and they require the second gap closer as they do not have a second method - IE stealth. Additionally, it builds energy because they are a negative energy class. IE - they have zero energy for attacks and must build energy first before being able to attack. A gap closer with no build for them would simply put them in the line of fire with nothing to do other than be attacked.

 

There would be nothing wrong with a 5second cooldown on scamper so long as it had no energy cost.

 

So, when a healer sorc runs 40m with force speed, it should take me 15+ seconds to even get to the melee range (assuming the healer is still running away and wasn't clever enough to slow me)?

[Kontraz]

So, when a healer sorc runs 40m with force speed, it should take me 15+ seconds to even get to the melee range (assuming the healer is still running away and wasn't clever enough to slow me)?

 

What would be the point in any ranged classes escape maneuver if a melee is able to counter it immediately every time? Stealth, use gap closer, continue to close in while sorc is unable to locate you. Alternatively, use scamper followed by flash bang. Now you have 8 additional seconds to close the gap.

 

Keep in mind that unlilke scamper, force speed is not instant. They are able to be rooted, snared, mezzed, or stunned mid-sprint, all of which stop the ability immediately, preventing them from gaining any more ground until the fifteen second CD passes.

[Rockandshock]

It seems people think that operatives can roll a hundred times in a row... just an fyi, when an operative brings his energy down past halfway the regen rate on energy is abysmal and that operative is now good for absolutely nothing.

 

Also to those saying that operatives can roll to objectives faster, well so can your sides operatives/scoundrels.

 

Operatives needed the mobility to be more useful. They were kited very easily pre- roll and had no good way to close gaps pre-roll. Operatives sacrifice burst and dps to perform rolls.

 

Snares destroy roll so keep them snared. If you know they are gonna roll away from you save a stun or a root to catch them. If they roll more than 3 times they will have very little energy to do anything else with other than keep rolling.

 

If they roll 3+ times and vanish out of combat immediately heal because that operative cannot attack you again until his energy restores which will take about 10 or more seconds or further if he used all of his/her energy

[Seireeni]

What would be the point in any ranged classes escape maneuver if a melee is able to counter it immediately every time? Stealth, use gap closer, continue to close in while sorc is unable to locate you. Alternatively, use scamper followed by flash bang. Now you have 8 additional seconds to close the gap.

 

Keep in mind that unlilke scamper, force speed is not instant. They are able to be rooted, snared, mezzed, or stunned mid-sprint, all of which stop the ability immediately, preventing them from gaining any more ground until the fifteen second CD passes.

 

A talent for sage healers:

"Egress: Force speed has a 100% chance to grant egress, removing all movement-impairing effects and granting immunity to all movement-impairing effects for the duration."

 

That's immunity to roots and snares at least, as far as I know. So, unless I can dirty kick them (4m range) before they even move or flashbang them before they move away from 10m range (30m range is for snipers and gunslingers only), they have a free 40m run.

 

Not to mention that as far as I know, middle tree of ops/scoundrels really suggests you should keep a DoT on target (since flying fists/whatever operative version is called will give you upper hand/tactical advantage when it hits a bleeding target) and the right-most talent tree seems to be pretty heavy in DoTs, too. So, it wouldn't be free 8 seconds even though you would have a 30m range like slingers or snipers, since the DoT target pretty likely has would break the mezz.

 

If combat stealth is supposed to be used as a gap closer, then it's ridiculous that operative gap closer has 1 minute 30 seconds cd. Give that a 30 second cd and I'm happy to give away my scamper.

[Astarica]

 

Keep in mind that unlilke scamper, force speed is not instant. They are able to be rooted, snared, mezzed, or stunned mid-sprint, all of which stop the ability immediately, preventing them from gaining any more ground until the fifteen second CD passes.

 

I think a lot of people miss the part where scampter is a teleport and makes most of the methods to stop fast movement not work on it, or perhaps people don't even understand the difference between fast movement and a teleport. Scamper will always put the exact distance between you and the attacker when you activate it. Any CC effect will take place at the destination as opposed to the middle of the roll, and by then you at least already got the distance you need. Grapple is likely to outright fail if attempted on a mid roll (you'll grapple the guy and he'll magically end up appearing at his destination because it's a teleport).

[Seireeni]

I think a lot of people miss the part where scampter is a teleport and makes most of the methods to stop fast movement not work on it, or perhaps people don't even understand the difference between fast movement and a teleport. Scamper will always put the exact distance between you and the attacker when you activate it. Any CC effect will take place at the destination as opposed to the middle of the roll, and by then you at least already got the distance you need. Grapple is likely to outright fail if attempted on a mid roll (you'll grapple the guy and he'll magically end up appearing at his destination because it's a teleport).

 

This is a problem and should be fixed, scamper shouldn't be a teleport. Right now, you have a small time at the end of scamper before you can move, maybe they could make it that you can move instantly when that animation ends but it takes a little longer to roll.