ETA on Advanced Class change?

[Bomyne]

Race changes are purely cosmetic. There are no stat differences between a human and a twi'lek.

 

class changes are gamebreaking. Different classes have different stats, for a start. There are different abilities even within the same archtype. If I switch from Shadow to Sage at level 55, should I have to pay for the sage abilities and lose the shadow abilities? What if I switch from Shadow to commando? Should I have to pay for all the trooper archtype and commando abilities? Or should they all just be handed to me? Should a full set of appropriate gear be given to me?

And after that there is story. Different archtypes have differrent stories. If I change from Shadow to Guardian at level 33, what should happen to my consular archtype story? Should it be abandoned and I'm placed on Tython with the first Knight archtype quest?

 

There is also the problem if knowing how to play. Even within the same archtype, there are different playstyles. My Shadow likes to run up close and pound things with his saberstaff, using the ranged force abilities as a secondary power. My Sage stands back and fights from afar.

In a group environment, that could be devastating. A guy that wants to be the healer who changed from Shadow to Sage just for that but has never healed on any class in any MMORPG before and has no idea what he's doing.

[TridusSWTOR]

If they don't like healing on their sorc then they can DPS on their sorc. AC change doesn't effect anything you talk about here, unless of course you cant decide between tank or healing. You should know that before you even roll a character.

 

And you are wrong. Which is quite a theme you have been providing with each post.

[TridusSWTOR]

Yes, we all know that there are players now who are not leet at playing their class and there are players who will violate "social convention" when it comes to loot rolling.

 

Those people exist now even without allowing class changes.

 

There will almost definitely be more players who do not know how to play their class because they were always ranged DPS and now they're ranged DPS.

 

That's why it's a poor stance to make. The problem you have with AC is already based on something that is happening right now in the game. You are now worried you'll get more of the same problem based on a guess though.

 

The thing is, how can you tell the difference between the noob that didn't AC change and the noob that did AC change? You can't.

[TridusSWTOR]

At least he put the effort into leveling that sorcerer to level 55. Even if he was DPS the entire time he was leveling, he likely at least used a heal spell or two to keep himself or his companion alive, unlike the assassin who has NO heal spells and has NO experience in using them with a sorcerer.

 

So now someone's effort put into leveling a character is based on circumstance? That's a pretty thin argument.

[TridusSWTOR]

That's what you got out of what I was saying?

 

Seems critical thinking is a little too much to ask.

 

I think it's been what, 6 replies now? And you still haven't added anything constructive to say, unless it's to insult people or tell them to leave.

 

I give you one more reply chance. If you can't respond with something constructive, I'll accept that you concede on all points in this topic.

 

Thanks for almost proving me right, which should change after your next post.

[ekwalizer]

Jugg... I decided that at level 45 I didn't really like tanking and I want to be a dual wielding dps class.

 

Sorc... I decided at level 45 that I don't like range dps and heals and I would rather tank and do melee dps.

 

BH.... I decided at level 45 I didn't want to tank/dps and I would rather heal/dps

 

IA... I decided at level 45 that I don't like range dps and I would rather melee

 

These are essentially the differences in class ACs. If you need to wait to lvl 45 to decide if you want to tank or heal or if you would rather melee or be ranged, then you got problems. These are the types of decisions, that you should know, before you even make your first character. In any other MMO, players know what type of class they want to play. It might be healer so they roll a cleric. It might be melee dps so they roll a rogue. It might be tank so they roll a warrior. It might be range dps so they roll a mage. These are the same choices you are making in ToR. I don't understand why it seems to be an issue here, that you feel you need to beg for a class change, but not in other MMOs.

 

Many of the options to play those styles are already in your example.

 

Your IA example points right to your BH example. The BH you reference is a PT, so you have the melee DPS that you want.

 

Your Sorc example points to your Jugg description. You don't want ranged dps/heal you want melee dps/tank. That is your Jugg,

 

Your BH example points right back to yoru Sorc description since that is already ranged dps/heal.

 

Your Jugg still has the option to melee dps, just with one saber. But you knew that when you selected Jugg. So, I'm sorry, "I want to dual wield" is not a legitimate reason.

[ekwalizer]

It's just a game, dude, just a game. You play your way, let others play their way.

 

Such petulance is understandable in young children. Not so much in adults.

 

Except the part where you are advocating a change in the actual rules to accommodate the way you want to play.

 

NO one is trying to force you to play their way, other than BW.

[ekwalizer]

While AC is as much a part of PvP as it is of PvE, the same reasoning applies re: AC change whether it's PvP or PvE: it's none of your business how others choose to play the game as long as they are not harassing you (and follow BWEA's other rules).

 

An adult recognizes that some people do not do things the way he or she does and does not insist that everyone else adhere to his or her notions of "fun."

 

1.) Follow the rules. You should do that.

2.) You are actively trying to insist that everyone else adhere to your notion of fun.

 

Hypocrite much?

[Soluss]

Unplayable? Without your precious AC swapping the game is unplayable?

 

Looking at the last few pages of this thread, you have been quite the jerk really...it's almost as if you think making a snarky reply to each quote you list makes you right lol...well I am sorry, jerkish attitude apart, your comment about the game being unplayable hammers any shred of cedability you ever had imo...just another whiner who starts throwing oround outlandish nonsense when he doesnt get what he wants....no AC swap = game "unplayable" using your own word? What a complete joke

 

For what it's worth, BW please NEVER add AC swapping...as TridusSWTOR has alread stated in this thread, no other MMO does it....so please don't cave into this request.

 

Driz

 

This^^^

[Soluss]

Many of the options to play those styles are already in your example.

 

Your IA example points right to your BH example. The BH you reference is a PT, so you have the melee DPS that you want.

 

Your Sorc example points to your Jugg description. You don't want ranged dps/heal you want melee dps/tank. That is your Jugg,

 

Your BH example points right back to yoru Sorc description since that is already ranged dps/heal.

 

Your Jugg still has the option to melee dps, just with one saber. But you knew that when you selected Jugg. So, I'm sorry, "I want to dual wield" is not a legitimate reason.

 

Read the post again. I am against AC change. It was a retort to show that you can decide what class you want before you even play the game. If you cant tell if you want to heal or tank or be melee or range, before you select, then that's your problem.

[ekwalizer]

Since the entire game is a totally optional endeavor on our part, the point you are trying to make is ... pointless.

 

Similarly, you opted to play this game given the current rules. You opted to select an advanced class based on your story. If you later decide you don't like that AC, you have the option of rolling a new toon in the AC you think you might enjoy more.

 

You always have the option of no longer playing/subscribing if the state of the game doesn't suit your interests.

 

It is all currently totally optional and full of choices.

[ekwalizer]

Let's see, I'll take "Any and every player" for 500 alex. Once again, stop speaking for every player, it makes you look bad.

 

Not sure how else I can say this- You. Don't. Pay. For. Other. Players. Subs. Stop. Telling. Them. How. To. Play. The. Game.

 

I broke it down for you, I might have to break it down further to get the point across it seems. Hopefully it'll finally click in though....I doubt it.

 

You should do the same.

 

No one here is telling you how to PLAY the game. We are just saying that you need to play within the current rules and stop trying to get them changed simply because you don't like that particular aspect.

Edited July 28, 2013 by ekwalizer

[ekwalizer]

Me, too.

 

I would probably never pay CC to change my characters' ACs. But you and I and others take the position that if some people wanted to take advantage of such an option, they should be allowed to do so. If people opposed to AC change were somehow going to be forced to do AC changes, they'd have an argument stronger than "I just don't like it."

 

And if we didn't vocally oppose this proposed change, the Devs might look at this thread and say, "Well, there isn't any opposition to it."

 

How is it "OK" for you to advocate a change that we don't like, but it isn't "OK" for us to advocate against it?

[ekwalizer]

your assuming its a slipery slope but you cant predict the future, and your point of you get most of your key skills at lvl 10 is just bs, its more like lvl 30

 

i dont want 2 change my class but im not dissapointed, if they give a 1 time option for a high amount of cc to those who made the wrong choice im fine with that

 

Knowledge of history is a very effective tool to predict the future under similar circumstances.

/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

// I am not comparing SWTOR to SWG, I am simply showing a ////////////

// contextual Slipper Slope from the only other SW MMO. /////////////

////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////

Take SWG for example. When SWG came out, Jedi was not a starting class and the path to obtain it was hidden. Not only did players complain and demand a beaten path to obtaining Jedi, the gaming magazine community castigated SWG for being a Star Wars game without Jedi.

 

So the Devs caved and provided a 100% effective path to Jedi with Publish 9.

 

Players continued to complain because they still had to grind, grind, grind just to get the Jedi unlock, and then grind like crazy to level the toon up during the CU.

 

Then comes the NGE as a result of "focus groups" saying that Jedi should just be a starter class.

 

The NGE ruined SWG for 90% of the player base when it went live and they all departed.

 

The same lame arguments were made way back them. "When you pay their sub you can tell them how to play." "How does them wanting to be a Jedi affect you?"

 

Those changes affected everyone that ever played SWG because overtime they led to this game being created and SWG being shut down.

[ekwalizer]

One small fact, if an AC change were put in the game.

 

Well you could choose not to do it. Instead of what you want, which is no choice.

 

For the, well I lost count now, time stop enforcing your beliefs out of greed and selfishness upon other players.

 

I provide choice, you do not. You can't prove me wrong.

 

I find it nigh on hilarious every time I see the very person advocating for a core mechanic change, designed to suit his personal interests, calling other people greedy.

[ekwalizer]

So because you play a game a certain way, everyone else has to do it that way also. Yea, you are totally not enforcing your rules on others.

 

A little word of advice- The world doesn't revolve around you. Sorry to be the one to tell you.

 

Oh yes it's a bad comparison because it...destroys your entire argument? I thought so.

 

So you are saying you will get a feel for how the class plays up at level 20? Do you play this game? Because you have to be trolling at this point. Come back when you realize that being able to see how your talent points play out, can play a big part in how a person views their class.

 

You are tired of it because you are tired of being proven wrong, time and time again. Stop throwing a tantrum and start making a point. By the way, thanks for the stream of insults before you even started making a point, if you can even call it that.

 

So we are back to bringing in another MMO's into the argument. This is becoming a theme here. Last I checked, this game doesn't have wizards or magic. We should put that in the game as well. Also remove lightsabers, other MMO's don't have lightsabers, therefore this one shouldn't either. That is how you sound

 

I put in it bold, so you can read is nice and slow. Come back when you can actually talk about this game without backpedaling to other MMO's. Oh wait...you can't.

 

Oh wow, he tried to sound smart there for a second. That's refreshing. So I guess what's the point in playing any genre? They are all the same, might as well pick one and stick with it, right? No? Oh wait...so you mean people buy different games in the same genre? I wonder why, I mean according to this guy they are all the same!

 

Oh wait, that's right, he is new to MMO's. Therefore we have to explain to him that they are an ever changing type game. Things are always being adjusted and things always being added or removed. That's what makes MMO's so unique, it's why you have different flavors of MMO. From Action based-Turn based, to Fantasy- Sci-fi. They all are different in there own way.

 

Take your own advice. Seriously.

 

You have proven this is your first MMO. You have been completely and utterly debunked.

 

But I suppose the world does in fact revolve around you?

Don't like your AC? YOu already have the same option as everyone else. Roll a new toon.

Just because you don't want to do that, doesn't negate it as a perfectly viable option.

[ImperialSun]

I find it nigh on hilarious every time I see the very person advocating for a core mechanic change, designed to suit his personal interests, calling other people greedy.

 

Exactly...

 

We are the ones playing and enjoying the game as it was designed and implemented. A game that was designed and implemented NOT to facilitate AC changes...and its those who are opposed to its inclusion that are being greedy?

 

Self entitled logic FTW!!!

 

Driz

Edited July 28, 2013 by ImperialSun

[ekwalizer]

Do you have anything to fall back on other than that? The "devs" made it permanent, it currently is permanent, the "devs" can make it changeable if they want.

 

So no changes should ever have been made to the game? And no other changes should ever be made? Got it. No more changes. Just bug fixes. I hope you don't use Sprint until your characters are level 10 or 15 or whatever it was originally. Otherwise, you know, you might look like a hypocrite. And of course no taking a taxi speeder directly from DK spaceport to the central city taxi.

 

That's a weak argument. No one is saying "no" changes should be made. We are saying THIS change shouldn't be made.

[ekwalizer]

Wow you really are grasping at straws now, aren't you?

 

Oh well, I guess you rather the game be unplayable than offer a choice to another player that doesn't affect you at all.

 

You have been debunked.

 

You have been, for 30 pages or so,vastly over using "debunk". Synonyms are your friend.

 

How is the current mechanic making the game "unplayable"? You have been debunked.

[ekwalizer]

The thing is, Bioware stated they will likely put this in the game. Which is why I encouraged the Anti-AC change side to stop with the insults and start talking about terms.

 

You know, terms that are reasonable. That's why my terms are fine, since they provide the CC option, which bioware loves to do and limits the amount of times someone can change their AC. So that whole "OMG FOTM!" thing is pretty much shut down with my terms.

 

If you want to leave it at- "I disagree with an AC change." that's fine. I already said I'm willing to accept that.

 

"Likely" is akin to "Soon".

 

Until you see it in the match notes it isn't "likely" to happen. And even then it might get delayed for an extended period - think Ranked Warzones.

[ekwalizer]

An entire post dedicated to insults, and he still misses the entire point.

 

I never really seen so much fail at reading comprehension before. I am going to save this post.

 

The fact that you went on a huge list of what gives speed boost....oh my. Do you even know how far you went off topic with your tantrum?

 

The person that accuses the entire opposition of being "greedy" and "selfish" has no right to call anyone out for slinging an insult.

[Bomyne]

Yea this is about AC change. So you're entire point about switching from guardian to shadow is moot.

 

We are talking about changes made within the AC options. There is almost no gear difference or stat difference.

 

Most AC change supporters want to put a CC/Credit cost on it and Limit the number of uses.

 

The point isn't moot. You want class changes. Jedi Shadow is a class. Jedi Guardian is a class. You want to be able to change between them at will.

 

And even in the same archtype, there are stat differences. My commando favours aim and alacrity while my Vanguard favours Endurance and defense rating.

 

EDIT: And yes, even if i don't class change, it affects me as i'd get people in group finder and warzones incorrectly geared, or having no idea what any of his spells do and how to play his class and I'd have to carry him as we gear him up.

Edited July 28, 2013 by Bomyne

[MajikMyst]

An entire post dedicated to insults, and he still misses the entire point.

 

I never really seen so much fail at reading comprehension before. I am going to save this post.

 

The fact that you went on a huge list of what gives speed boost....oh my. Do you even know how far you went off topic with your tantrum?

 

There are no insults in my post... You dropped the ball as usual and I called you out on it..

 

If you don't like it, the try actually reading for a change..

[branmakmuffin]

The point isn't moot. You want class changes. Jedi Shadow is a class. Jedi Guardian is a class. You want to be able to change between them at will.

If that's what you think, you haven't read and/or understood any part of this thread.

 

And even in the same archtype, there are stat differences. My commando favours aim and alacrity while my Vanguard favours Endurance and defense rating.

That's your choice.

 

EDIT: And yes, even if i don't class change, it affects me as i'd get people in group finder and warzones incorrectly geared, or having no idea what any of his spells do and how to play his class and I'd have to carry him as we gear him up.

No, you wouldn't "have" to do anything. Again, you need to stop worrying about how others play and just worry about how you play.

 

"Likely" is akin to "Soon".

The idea of AC change makes you angry. We get that. So you'll spin it however you think will favor your position.

 

That's a weak argument. No one is saying "no" changes should be made. We are saying THIS change shouldn't be made.

It was sarcasm, pointing out the absurdity of Ratajack's position. Because that's what his (and your?) argument amount to: the "devs" shouldn't allow AC change in the future because AC changing has never been allowed in the past. If you want to say "I don't like it" and stop there, fair enough. It's the ridiculous and pale attempts to at justification which make you fall down.

 

I've said before I don't care that much if it's introduced. But I'm starting to get the point where I'd like to see it introduced just because y'all're so irrationally and adamantly opposed.

Edited July 28, 2013 by branmakmuffin

[ImperialSun]

If that's what you think, you haven't read and/or understood any part of this thread.

 

 

That's your choice.

 

 

No, you wouldn't "have" to do anything. Again, you need to stop worrying about how others play and just worry about how you play.

 

 

The idea of AC change makes you angry. We get that. So you'll spin it however you think will favor your position.

 

 

It was sarcasm, pointing out the absurdity of Ratajack's position. Because that's what his (and your?) argument amount to: the "devs" shouldn't allow AC change in the future because AC changing has never been allowed in the past. If you want to say "I don't like it" and stop there, fair enough. It's the ridiculous and pale attempts to at justification which make you fall down.

 

I've said before I don't care that much if it's introduced. But I'm starting to get the point where I'd like to see it introduced just because y'all're so irrationally and adamantly opposed.

 

People have every right to be just as adamantly opposed to AC changing as those who are adamantly for it. Labelling those that do not share your opinion as irrational is pretty lame dude.

 

Face it, the game was designed, built and implemented from the ground up to NOT allow AC switching...BW appear to not really favour it pre f2p or post...that says to me that the quote from months ago is a soft no...but a no all the same.

 

Actually coming out and saying you hope a feature you are indifferent about is introduced just to get peoples backs up who oppose it is beyond childish on your part...you know it as well as i do

 

Its just a game dude

 

Driz