ETA on Advanced Class change?

[TridusSWTOR]

This is ultimately where it leads.

 

At what point does "I'm a Merc but want to be a PT" become " I'm a Merc but want to be an Inquisitor"?

 

You guys sound like fox news.

 

"Gay marriage? What's next animals???????"

 

Seriously if this is all you got, you already admitted defeat.

[TridusSWTOR]

I've seen the old Daniel Erickson quote made not long after the launch where he says they have no plans for switching advanced class which are seen as fundamentally different classes. No mention of specific segregation of roles though, are you referring to a different source?

I've also seen the more recent comment by the current lead designer that says AC switch has been considered and may happen in the future. This points out that games change as they mature and no ruleset is out of reach for the discussion of change.

Underminging the intent? I still don't think it does. An AC change still maintains a seperation of abilities that prevents a character mixing tank/healing abilities.

 

 

 

 

Seriously I am still struggling to understand why anyone would place such an absolute against the arguement as 'If it changes I quit'. I'm sorry but this just reminds me of young kids on the football pitch who walk off with their ball just because they start to loose.

 

Allowing an AC change has zero effect on you within the game mechanics. It is no more invasive than the role changing already available within the skill trees. No one sees any real problems with that level of role swapping. No one is threatening to quit because a Mercenary can change from Healer role to DPS role or a Powertech changes from DPS role to Tank role. Why should they be so insulted that they feel the need to quit over allowing another player to chose between Healer OR Tank role?

 

Because it is a 'meaningful' choice? It's only meaningful as far as it pertains to you. If you wan't your AC choice to be meaningful and absolute then by all means feel free not to use an AC change feature should it ever be implemented.I just don't feel that should be enforced on other players.

 

Everything this poster said it right on the money. Nice job on spreading the good word.

[Spatology]

By suggesting a change to the "rules of the game" you remind me of the kid in kindergarden that sucked at redrover. you would try to teach everyone a new game with new rules....and make those rules up as you go along, constantly adding new rules so you get your way.

 

Bioware made it supremely clear this choice is a permanent one. and if it isnt, it should be a free for all toggle like field respec.

[Spatology]

Everything this poster said it right on the money. Nice job on spreading the good word.

 

"allowing ac change has zero effect...."

 

scoundrels cant tank and knights cant heal.

[Jetreaperz]

this entire "idea" is based of people being lazy,

 

 

its called an alt, you have 12 character slots. stop being lazy

[TridusSWTOR]

I see nothing but arguments back and forth with nothing but boasting about one's ability and immature ranting. If you want to feel my thoughts on it. Look at my post in this thread

 

Other than that. Please stop the childish bickering, immature yelling and starting crying matches. This is a discussion thread not a angry forums thread

 

Then ask the anti AC change to stop being immature. They don't accept terms unless they are flat out unreasonable and defeat the entire purpose of an AC change.

 

Then they go on to say that AC change will become like field respec, even though nobody has even suggested that. That's all there is to it.

 

So get the message across to them and then maybe this discussion will grow. Until then, they will be wrong and be openly mocked for it.

[TridusSWTOR]

What is the purpose of the penalties? They serve none really. At what point do we get to use the ingame function that requires no human oversite for free.....

 

Im tired of people legitimizing biowares nickel and diming.

 

There is really 0 legitimate reason to AC swap.

 

If you have acheived titles and things on a character, that character has obviously acheived some measure of sucess. Why fix something that isnt broken.

 

If you are level 11, you spent an hour on the character.

 

Bioware made leveling half as long as it was at release. Go enjoy the game they made for you.

 

So all the people that want it, is a "0 legitimate reason" according to you.

 

Wow, I'm glad you are speaking for all us now.

 

Then you go on to say you know how long a person spends on a character.

 

You really assumed a lot with your response, do you have anything to back it up? Probably not.

 

Face the real facts. Since you are new to MMO's clearly. They are forever changing and adapting. If you think things are set in stone, then you are only fooling yourself. You know what bioware should do? Remove level 1 sprint, because that was such a bad move, right? We should go back to having to walk everywhere, because that was super fun.

 

Oh wait, I forgot, what about those artifice crafters? You know, when bioware put the best crystals in the CC market and pretty much destroyed their reason to ever craft low level crystals? I guess that's okay though, no big advantage having a +41 stat crystal at level 10.

 

Stop cherry-picking, it's obvious and it makes you look bad.

[Spatology]

You are trying th change game mechanics that are healthy for a playerbase to be knowledgeable about their classes and its playstyle. You are suggesting bioware nickle and dime us even more. You are suggesting that people be lazy and get whatever they want if they demand it enough.

 

I demand Kell Dragon armor in the mailbox through no effort.

 

I demand a flying whale mount from alderan.

 

I demand to play as jar jar binks.

[TridusSWTOR]

By suggesting a change to the "rules of the game" you remind me of the kid in kindergarden that sucked at redrover. you would try to teach everyone a new game with new rules....and make those rules up as you go along, constantly adding new rules so you get your way.

 

Bioware made it supremely clear this choice is a permanent one. and if it isnt, it should be a free for all toggle like field respec.

 

You remind me of that kid....that didn't really apply logic to any current MMO business in our current market. Oh wait, that wasn't a kid I knew in the past, it was you.

 

It's clear once again, this is your first MMO, I'll try to go easy on you.

 

No I won't.

 

You see, when a game is made. They have these things called beta test, know what those are? I'll explain. It's when they ask potential consumers to test their product and give feedback. Yea so when a company makes rules in the game that they think are good, there is a chance the player base might not like it and they inform the company about the problem. That's how companies grow and progress, to further expand their revenue. Now that I explained that to you.

 

MMO's are the same way, it's why EQ1 and FFXI style MMO's are a thing of the past. Now we have MMO's that cater more to that busy person. I guess you don't care about those people though do you? As long as you can find time to do things in the game, then everyone should be able to as well, right? Yes, the world revolves around you, how could we forget.

 

You have been debunked.

[Spatology]

So all the people that want it, is a "0 legitimate reason" according to you.

 

Wow, I'm glad you are speaking for all us now.

 

Then you go on to say you know how long a person spends on a character.

 

You really assumed a lot with your response, do you have anything to back it up? Probably not.

 

Face the real facts. Since you are new to MMO's clearly. They are forever changing and adapting. If you think things are set in stone, then you are only fooling yourself. You know what bioware should do? Remove level 1 sprint, because that was such a bad move, right? We should go back to having to walk everywhere, because that was super fun.

 

Oh wait, I forgot, what about those artifice crafters? You know, when bioware put the best crystals in the CC market and pretty much destroyed their reason to ever craft low level crystals? I guess that's okay though, no big advantage having a +41 stat crystal at level 10.

 

Stop cherry-picking, it's obvious and it makes you look bad.

 

Healthy game mechanics are more important then someone who feels entitled and wants things through no effort fo their own.

 

Yes, positive changes are made to improve gameplay. Will this change acheive this goal? NO.

 

I might have played mmo's longer then you have been alive, who knows. Its clear you havent thought out the implications of what you suggest.

 

Im not making assumptions, Im trying to extract intentions or motivations from your poorly supported opinions. Its called discussion, where people share ideas and try to understand the others stance.

[ShadowHvo]

I demand a flying whale mount from alderan.

 

I would love a Thranta too.. A WHALE WITH WINGS!

[TridusSWTOR]

this entire "idea" is based of people being lazy,

 

 

its called an alt, you have 12 character slots. stop being lazy

 

Yes because you get all abilities at level 11, and you can get a full grasp on how your class will play out on the way to level 55. Oh wait...you don't.

 

Instead you level to 45 to get the full feel of your class and now you find you don't really enjoy it. So you want to switch but oh wait! Some people that don't pay your sub don't want you to switch. Because at level 45, you will affect their game play for some reason, they have yet to explain.

 

Makes total sense.

[Spatology]

You remind me of that kid....that didn't really apply logic to any current MMO business in our current market. Oh wait, that wasn't a kid I knew in the past, it was you.

 

It's clear once again, this is your first MMO, I'll try to go easy on you.

 

No I won't.

 

You see, when a game is made. They have these things called beta test, know what those are? I'll explain. It's when they ask potential consumers to test their product and give feedback. Yea so when a company makes rules in the game that they think are good, there is a chance the player base might not like it and they inform the company about the problem. That's how companies grow and progress, to further expand their revenue. Now that I explained that to you.

 

MMO's are the same way, it's why EQ1 and FFXI style MMO's are a thing of the past. Now we have MMO's that cater more to that busy person. I guess you don't care about those people though do you? As long as you can find time to do things in the game, then everyone should be able to as well, right? Yes, the world revolves around you, how could we forget.

 

You have been debunked.

 

There is no debunking here, your point is it would be good for biowares buisness.

 

Its not good for us consumers of said product, i dont appreciate this sentiment.

[TridusSWTOR]

You are trying th change game mechanics that are healthy for a playerbase to be knowledgeable about their classes and its playstyle. You are suggesting bioware nickle and dime us even more. You are suggesting that people be lazy and get whatever they want if they demand it enough.

 

I demand Kell Dragon armor in the mailbox through no effort.

 

I demand a flying whale mount from alderan.

 

I demand to play as jar jar binks.

 

So what I'm suggesting is being forced upon you? Last time I checked, every pro-AC change supporter wanted it to be a CHOICE. You know, you could say yes or no, unlike you whom only provides a "no" option.

 

Answer me this, because this will be amusing.

 

When a level 45 player changes AC. How many people do they affect?

 

When a player gets NiM TFB/SnV armor that requires multiple people, how many people does it affect?

 

Oh lord, this should be amusing. Good job falling on your own sword.

[Spatology]

Yes because you get all abilities at level 11, and you can get a full grasp on how your class will play out on the way to level 55. Oh wait...you don't.

 

Instead you level to 45 to get the full feel of your class and now you find you don't really enjoy it. So you want to switch but oh wait! Some people that don't pay your sub don't want you to switch. Because at level 45, you will affect their game play for some reason, they have yet to explain.

 

Makes total sense.

 

I would argue that the real flavor of the class is OBVIOUS at level 1....if you play mmo's that is. Since you seem to think ive never played these, allow me to help you.

 

4 main specifcatons.

 

Tank, Healer, Melee dps, Range dps.

[TridusSWTOR]

Healthy game mechanics are more important then someone who feels entitled and wants things through no effort fo their own.

 

Yes, positive changes are made to improve gameplay. Will this change acheive this goal? NO.

 

I might have played mmo's longer then you have been alive, who knows. Its clear you havent thought out the implications of what you suggest.

 

Im not making assumptions, Im trying to extract intentions or motivations from your poorly supported opinions. Its called discussion, where people share ideas and try to understand the others stance.

 

So when a person levels to 45 and finds out they don't like their class. Due to bioware not letting them fully realize what they are getting into until level 45, it's them being lazy? Oh lord

 

Yes it's called discussion, something you have yet to partake in. Just the mere fact that you got angry when I called you out on your lack of MMO experience, shows that I was right all along.

 

The truth is, you are making assumptions. You assumed how players play and their duration. You assume that only your own beliefs are right and others are wrong. The list can go on.

 

You wanted to share ideas, I provided mine many times over. You on the other hand? I have yet to see any ideas thrown other than "I don't like it, therefore it shouldn't happen.". Do you pay my sub? Why are you telling me how to play my game then? Such greed.

[Spatology]

So what I'm suggesting is being forced upon you? Last time I checked, every pro-AC change supporter wanted it to be a CHOICE. You know, you could say yes or no, unlike you whom only provides a "no" option.

 

Answer me this, because this will be amusing.

 

When a level 45 player changes AC. How many people do they affect?

 

When a player gets NiM TFB/SnV armor that requires multiple people, how many people does it affect?

 

Oh lord, this should be amusing. Good job falling on your own sword.

 

When a level 45 player changes AC. How many people do they affect? All players they group with that have to deal with someone who clearly has never played their class before. Also, assumeing the player will want to optimize their gear, they could potentially have to need on gear that other players could use?

 

 

When a player gets NiM TFB/SnV armor that requires multiple people, how many people does it affect? Anyone they play with in the future gets to be carried through content since this player will outgear and make the content easier.

 

Do you not understand cause and effect?

[TridusSWTOR]

I would argue that the real flavor of the class is OBVIOUS at level 1....if you play mmo's that is. Since you seem to think ive never played these, allow me to help you.

 

4 main specifcatons.

 

Tank, Healer, Melee dps, Range dps.

 

So you get all abilities and know an AC rotations and limitations at level 1. Makes total sense

 

So you assume because you know these things, a new player should know them as well. Otherwise they are lazy and should be punished according to you. Wow you are great for business.

 

Bioware the choice is clear, you can see just from this post alone, that he doesn't want to welcome new players. Unlike myself, I want to breed a healthy gaming community that welcomes new players. I provide choice, while this poster provides tantrums and insults.

 

It's sad that I had to explain so much to a so called "MMO vet".

[Spatology]

So you get all abilities and know an AC rotations and limitations at level 1. Makes total sense

 

So you assume because you know these things, a new player should know them as well. Otherwise they are lazy and should be punished according to you. Wow you are great for business.

 

Bioware the choice is clear, you can see just from this post alone, that he doesn't want to welcome new players. Unlike myself, I want to breed a healthy gaming community that welcomes new players. I provide choice, while this poster provides tantrums and insults.

 

It's sad that I had to explain so much to a so called "MMO vet".

 

I love new players and help them on many occasions. What i dont appreciate is pegging holes in the dam, cause one day all those little holes with make a diffrence.

 

You arent even granted all the abilities at 45 since RotHC. Since you are ignoreing this fact ill do so as well.

 

I want choice, but i dont want CC cost or penalties accosiated. Bioware deserves no money for systems that operate in game with no actual human oversight.

[TridusSWTOR]

When a level 45 player changes AC. How many people do they affect? All players they group with that have to deal with someone who clearly has never played their class before. Also, assumeing the player will want to optimize their gear, they could potentially have to need on gear that other players could use?

 

 

When a player gets NiM TFB/SnV armor that requires multiple people, how many people does it affect? Anyone they play with in the future gets to be carried through content since this player will outgear and make the content easier.

 

Do you not understand cause and effect?

 

Oh so the 3 other people they group with should enforce their own beliefs and rules on one player now? Wow that really inspires a healthy game, something you said you wanted.

 

Hey everyone, you aren't allowed to make decisions with your character anymore. Instead you will be judged by the rest of the community and you will play according to what they want.

 

I love how an AC change will have this huge affect on people, but a field respec? Nope it's fine, nothing to see here. Good job cherry picking. Furthermore, you still having proved that AC change affects others. What if the level 45 solo's all the time? Oh wow, with one sentence I just threw you're entire argument out the window.

 

Now back to the operation- Glad you admit that what you want DOES affect other people. Since you openly said they need to be "carried" hence meaning it requires multiple people. Thanks for pretty much debunking yourself.

[TridusSWTOR]

I love new players and help them on many occasions. What i dont appreciate is pegging holes in the dam, cause one day all those little holes with make a diffrence.

 

You arent even granted all the abilities at 45 since RotHC. Since you are ignoreing this fact ill do so as well.

 

I want choice, but i dont want CC cost or penalties accosiated. Bioware deserves no money for systems that operate in game with no actual human oversight.

 

The bolded part. Thanks for openly saying it.

 

So you admit that even at level 45, a player can't get a full idea of what he's dealing with, yet you want them to redo everything back to level 1 on a different AC, based on a gamble that they may or may not like the class. That's just pointless.

 

I do agree with you that I hate so much stuff being on the CC. The fact of the matter is, CC is there "go-to" thing from here on out. Their investors are happy as hell at the profits gained by the CC market, they are gonna keep using it for better or worse. I was hoping they would throw subs a bone with the race change, but nope. From here on out, whether you want to accept it or not, most ideas are gonna find there way to the CC market.

 

That's why I use the high CC/high credit cost as my list of restrictions and that's why I only want to limit 2 changes per character. They switch once, since they leveled up one AC and didn't like it. Now the second AC change comes along and it's a big choice, they got a feel for both AC's now, so whatever they pick, it's on them and nobody else.

[Spatology]

Oh so the 3 other people they group with should enforce their own beliefs and rules on one player now? Wow that really inspires a healthy game, something you said you wanted.

 

Hey everyone, you aren't allowed to make decisions with your character anymore. Instead you will be judged by the rest of the community and you will play according to what they want.

 

I love how an AC change will have this huge affect on people, but a field respec? Nope it's fine, nothing to see here. Good job cherry picking. Furthermore, you still having proved that AC change affects others. What if the level 45 solo's all the time? Oh wow, with one sentence I just threw you're entire argument out the window.

 

Now back to the operation- Glad you admit that what you want DOES affect other people. Since you openly said they need to be "carried" hence meaning it requires multiple people. Thanks for pretty much debunking yourself.

 

You asked how your choices would affect other people. I gave you good answers.

 

"What if the level 45 solo's all the time? Oh wow, with one sentence I just threw you're entire argument out the window." This is really funny. You realize what the "mmo" acrynm stands for right? We dont balance a multiplayer game around solo players. Sorry.

 

The rest of your "points" or whatever you call them, dont coherently make sense.

[Spatology]

The bolded part. Thanks for openly saying it.

 

So you admit that even at level 45, a player can't get a full idea of what he's dealing with, yet you want them to redo everything back to level 1 on a different AC, based on a gamble that they may or may not like the class. That's just pointless.

 

I do agree with you that I hate so much stuff being on the CC. The fact of the matter is, CC is there "go-to" thing from here on out. Their investors are happy as hell at the profits gained by the CC market, they are gonna keep using it for better or worse. I was hoping they would throw subs a bone with the race change, but nope. From here on out, whether you want to accept it or not, most ideas are gonna find there way to the CC market.

 

That's why I use the high CC/high credit cost as my list of restrictions and that's why I only want to limit 2 changes per character. They switch once, since they leveled up one AC and didn't like it. Now the second AC change comes along and it's a big choice, they got a feel for both AC's now, so whatever they pick, it's on them and nobody else.

 

Players get a full understanding of their roll and playstyle at level one. Again, there are only 4 really diffrent playstyle mechanics here....what dont you get?

 

No, bioware shouldnt be getting money for namechanges, appearance changes, and the like. Micro transactions traditionally had additional cost because they required human oversight. These are ingame systems they programmed that require ZERO man hours to maintain. I will not support more greed.

[MajikMyst]

While we both are on the same side of this issue, I'm not "throwing in" with him, but at the same time, I feel obligated to bring light to what I find to be an obviously "less than completely honest" representation of his post.

 

I resent the remark that you view any portion of my post dishonest... There is nothing dishonest about my posts.. I would welcome you to point out anything that is less than completely honest in my posts..

 

I just call things like I see it.. Our arguments are logical and based in fact.. Their arguments are based on lies and a glaring lack of logic..

 

You have pointed this out in a number of your own posts..

[Hockaday]

So when a person levels to 45 and finds out they don't like their class. Due to bioware not letting them fully realize what they are getting into until level 45, it's them being lazy? Oh lord

 

 

lol...I have to stop you there. If you take a moment to -read- the description of your AC, it plainly tells you what you'll be getting. If anything, what you'd need to ask for (if you stick with this poor argument) is a base class change. If someone makes a Sin, and at 45 they decide they don't like it...well, they certainly won't want a Sorc...or they would have picked it. They wanted a melee toon.

 

Not to mention, the abundance of information on these forums about classes. Really no excuse for ignorance. Other MMOs don't have the luxury of the great forums like these.

 

But really, you know what you're getting at level 10. Leveling to 45 may give you even more of an idea, but not much more. If it took you 35 levels to realise you won't like a class, something is wrong.