ETA on Advanced Class change?

[LordArtemis]

New pro and con list with suggested additions.

 

PROS

 

1. breathing life into characters that may have been abandoned and thus extending someone's stay in game, their enjoyment in game.

2. allowing people who only have fun playing through a story once - experiment with their character without having to suffer through the story they already know and aren't having fun replaying.

3. allowing people to keep using unique, no longer acquirable items, that include pets, speeders, crystals, armor shells, as well as legacy perk unlocks on a character they have grown attached to, while enjoying the game play style that works better for them, within the same archetype, rather than having to reroll from scratch and lose all the investment they made into a character.

4. making extra money for bioware by making ac switch purchasable with cartel coins.

 

 

CONS

 

1) I would expect that many folks are not going to react well to this change if implemented.

2) They flirted with the idea before launch, even talked about it publicly, but in the end decided not to allow it. At the time folks were pretty dead set against it. I don't think it's likely the current environment has changed much since then.

3) Some classes could end up underrepresented due to bad design. Right now some folks stick with an AC they choose because they would have to reroll and do not wish to do so I would guess.

4) If restrictions are not in place this could end up being abused or exploited.

5) This will likely further demean AC choice.

6) Could cause FOTM issues.

7) If late game AC change is allowed it could end up causing folks that have an AC but do not know how to properly play it running Raids and Operations, making an existing problem worse.

8) Allowing AC change would perhaps damage the integrity of the entire class system by making it meaningless.

9) If AC changes are allowed it could open the gates for more and more changes until it is a spec swap.

[MajikMyst]

sorcs started needing accuracy with 2.0. do look it up, dear.

 

So then why don't sages need accuracy?? For that matter, Shadows which are mele also don't need accuracy.. Shadows are Assassins.. Which also don't need accuracy..

 

Perhaps you should look up dear??

 

Just an FYI.. I have a dedicated level 55 Shadow tank.. One of the biggest complaints that tanks of our class have in the gear is that a lot of it has accuracy that we don't need, and a lot of it has def, which we don't need much of.. We need a lot of shield and absorb.. Which is sadly absent from our gear.. I have had to use augments to get those stats..

 

Accuracy is improved by Accuracy Rating, and determines the chance for our melee and force abilities to hit the enemy - although no enemies have resistance to force/tech, so this only applies to our melee skills. Due to hits procing Energize/PA, as well as the number of melee attacks in our rotation, Accuracy is our most valuable threat stat, closely followed by Surge. The amount of Accuracy to always hit bosses is uncertain, although it is likely somewhere between 8-10%. Accuracy beyond this point is worthless.

 

http://mmo-mechanics.com/swtor/forums/thread-950.html#IIa

 

Now.. Both Shadow and Assassins have some mele skills.. Some are pretty nice.. Having said that, I have only a little accuracy that has come on my gear.. Some of it I got rid of.. But I have never missed on a boss.. I have tanked SaV.. Again never missed.. I will agree that a little accuracy may not be a bad idea.. But I will gladly trade it for a tank stat.. I currently have about 2% or less on accuracy..

Edited June 23, 2013 by MajikMyst

[MajikMyst]

Take your own advice. Not to mention the fact that you have been told more than once that you and I have nothing to discuss. I hope I don't have to tell you again.

 

I added your suggestions to the list. Next time just post them without the quote, the diatribe and the attempt to control the discussion.

 

You are right.. We have nothing to discuss... You don't want to discuss anything.. Don't want to respond to anything and don't want to read anyone else's posts.. Especially those that require you to defend your position.. As for controlling anything?? Looked in the mirror lately?? I don't recall anyone electing you to be the caretaker of the pros and cons.. Even though you are missing almost all the ones that actually matter..

[Jeweledleah]

So then why don't sages need accuracy?? For that matter, Shadows which are mele also don't need accuracy.. Shadows are Assassins.. Which also don't need accuracy..

 

Perhaps you should look up dear??

 

I knew it. you will continue insisting I'm wrong against all evidence.

 

sages need accuracy.

 

go to the thread i linked. if you'd like to see this information for more classes? you are free to look through class forums. I'm going to go back to playing now, because you are no longer worth my time. dear.

[LordArtemis]

You are right.. We have nothing to discuss... You don't want to discuss anything.. Don't want to respond to anything and don't want to read anyone else's posts.. Especially those that require you to defend your position.. As for controlling anything?? Looked in the mirror lately?? I don't recall anyone electing you to be the caretaker of the pros and cons.. Even though you are missing almost all the ones that actually matter..

 

Shenanigans.

Edited June 23, 2013 by LordArtemis

[LordArtemis]

I knew it. you will continue insisting I'm wrong against all evidence.

 

sages need accuracy.

 

go to the thread i linked. if you'd like to see this information for more classes? you are free to look through class forums. I'm going to go back to playing now, because you are no longer worth my time. dear.

 

Accuracy

In general, force abilities now have a 5% miss chance on regular non-elite mobs and 10% on boss or elite mobs. Since we are talking about raid gearing here, BiS needs to factor in the 10% miss chance.

 

We have from both specs a 3% boost to accuracy and we can also get a 1% boost from companion affection (do it, since it is now super important). With that in mind we have a base 94% accuracy.

 

Accuracy has an extremely improved important (we previously needed none before 2.0). Not only will our abilities get resisted, but we can also miss the application of an entire dot in addition to each individual tick - the loss in dps can be fairly monstrous if you have (in balance) a FiB force suppression resisted.

 

Wow, I wasn't even aware of this. Thanks for the link. I've been leaning on Power, naturally I have alacrity out the wazoo, looks like I need to rethink my setup....

 

I have noticed I've been missing more often lately. Now I know why.

 

As far as that community member...there is no need to post proof. It will be ignored. Nothing but diatribe from that one. Don't let it get to you.

 

I mean, this is the person that is still convinced I'm in the Pro AC change crowd, though plenty of people have told otherwise....just trolling.

Edited June 23, 2013 by LordArtemis

[MajikMyst]

I knew it. you will continue insisting I'm wrong against all evidence.

 

sages need accuracy.

 

go to the thread i linked. if you'd like to see this information for more classes? you are free to look through class forums. I'm going to go back to playing now, because you are no longer worth my time. dear.

 

Links above... Have a nice day.. Always a pleasure to prove you wrong again..

[Jeweledleah]

you are very welcome, lord Artemis

 

they keep pushing alacrity and its not completely awful on a sorc/sage healer, but on a dps, its a big dps loss, vs power (or accuracy if you are not at cap). proper gearing is a bit of a pain now, since if you want to perform at peak efficiency (and since my guild is slowly progressing through hardmode ops - we try our best to head in that direction), you pretty much have to get multiples of the same piece for sole reason of pulling out mods and enhancements to improve your stats.

 

on a plus side, stat weights for assasins/vs sorc dps (or any dps really) are a lot more similar. its almost like they want to make it easier for your to switch ac's depending on your preferred role

P.S. ROFL. I lied. I'll give you one last moment of my time, magyc.

 

08-25-2011, 10:16 PM (This post was last modified: 04-17-2012 05:08 PM by Alratan.

 

way to link severely out of date thread. I don't even have to do anything, you are doing a fine job yourself making yourself look funny

Edited June 23, 2013 by Jeweledleah

[LordArtemis]

you are very welcome, lord Artemis

 

they keep pushing alacrity and its not completely awful on a sorc/sage healer, but on a dps, its a big dps loss, vs power (or accuracy if you are not at cap). proper gearing is a bit of a pain now, since if you want to perform at peak efficiency (and since my guild is slowly progressing through hardmode ops - we try our best to head in that direction), you pretty much have to get multiples of the same piece for sole reason of pulling out mods and enhancements to improve your stats.

 

on a plus side, stat weights for assasins/vs sorc dps (or any dps really) are a lot more similar. its almost like they want to make it easier for your to switch ac's depending on your preferred role

P.S. ROFL.

 

LOL sneaky there

 

Yea, I noticed that not only was I hitting less, but my crits were capping out more often...thought it was my imagination. I switched over to power but it's hard to shake alacrity since the gear is saturated in it.

 

My heals are hitting harder on average now though with stacking power.

[LordArtemis]

I'll give you one last moment of my time, magyc.

 

It's a waste of time. Any evidence presented is completely ignored as if it never existed. This has happened over and over again.

 

Just look at the community members post history. That will give you a clue as to what kind of community member they are.

[Jeweledleah]

LOL sneaky there

 

Yea, I noticed that not only was I hitting less, but my crits were capping out more often...thought it was my imagination. I switched over to power but it's hard to shake alacrity since the gear is saturated in it.

 

My heals are hitting harder on average now though with stacking power.

 

just keeping things on topic

 

and I actually love what they did to healers in 2.0, my resource management is a lot more efficient now, on all my healers (and I play all 3 archetypes) and I generally feel more effective, hitting harder etc. I guess not being able to switch to dps as effortlessly is a somewhat fair tradeoff. i don't mind too much though, personaly, since I mainly dps in flashpoints, where missing occasionally is not as critical.

[MajikMyst]

go to the thread i linked. if you'd like to see this information for more classes? you are free to look through class forums. I'm going to go back to playing now, because you are no longer worth my time. dear.

 

The OP claims that mobs have a chance to miss on force abilities?? Why does everywhere else say the exact opposite??

 

Why is it not reflected in the tool tip??

 

Your base force accuracy is already 100%..

 

Other than your link, nobody else has said that chance to hit on with force as decreased.. So I will trust other websites.. You think and believe what you want..

 

Here is a forum from Noxxic..

 

http://www.noxxic.com/t/accuracy-with-shadow-tank-builds

 

Again says no accuracy is needed for shadow tanks as of 2.2..

 

http://www.noxxic.com/swtor/pve/jedi-consular/shadow/kinetic-combat/item-modification

 

Here is the builder with BiS list.. Again no accuracy..

 

I looked at all the specs for a Sage and a shadow.. Some specs they are saying you want accuracy.. But I don't know why?? One is for a Telekinetics spec'ed sage.. That is a ranged dps force only spec.. Yet for a shadow tank, which is at least partially mele it says no accuracy.. I am sticking with the no accuracy thing.. At least until it can be explained why..

Edited June 23, 2013 by MajikMyst

[LordArtemis]

just keeping things on topic

 

and I actually love what they did to healers in 2.0, my resource management is a lot more efficient now, on all my healers (and I play all 3 archetypes) and I generally feel more effective, hitting harder etc. I guess not being able to switch to dps as effortlessly is a somewhat fair tradeoff. i don't mind too much though, personaly, since I mainly dps in flashpoints, where missing occasionally is not as critical.

 

This actually kind of touches on one of my AC change concerns...I don't know if you are pro or con AC, so Ill just ask if you think a person would be as invested in learning the alternate specs if they could simply swap their AC. I tend to think that might be diminished if it was allowed.

 

There are many AC's IMO with special applications though they may not be the best for others, and I am worried AC swapping might cause some of those ACs to end up underrepresented.

Edited August 9, 2013 by LordArtemis

[Magnusheart]

You were WARNED chosing an Advanced Class was FINAL and No going back.

[ShadowHvo]

...... there is no commando tier, there's trooper tier

 

Last I checked I had both gear for Assassins and Sorcerers.. Now, I'm pretty sure the same goes for Vanguard and Commando.

[MajikMyst]

This actually kind of touches on one of my AC change concerns...I don't know if you are pro or con AC, so Ill just ask if you think a person would be as invested in learning the alternate specs if they could simply swap their AC. I tend to think that might be diminished if it was allowed.

 

There are many AC's IMO with special applications though they may not be the best for others, and I am worried AC swapping might cause some of those ACs to end up underrepresented.

 

I have a lvl 55 shadow tank and in the process of leveling a sage.. A lot of people that I know have leveled both AC's.. I know a lot of people that have both commandos and Vanguards.. A lot of people have taken the time and made the effort.. Including myself..

 

Everyone else should do the same.. Instead of whining here..

[MajikMyst]

It's a waste of time. Any evidence presented is completely ignored as if it never existed. This has happened over and over again.

 

Just look at the community members post history. That will give you a clue as to what kind of community member they are.

 

The most ignored people in this forum are those that are arguing against AC swapping..

 

Take the posts above.. Where have you all read those arguments before?? I mean.. It isn't like those words haven't already been said by myself and countless others.. Yet constantly ignored.. You are right Lord.. It does say a lot about a person by how they handle themselves in a debate.. When countless people are making the same points over and over.. Still this thread continues to grow.. You just have to wonder about some people..

 

[Jeweledleah]

This actually kind of touches on one of my AC change concerns...I don't know if you are pro or con AC, so Ill just ask if you think a person would be as invested in learning the alternate specs if they could simply swap their AC. I tend to think that might be diminished if it was allowed.

 

There are many AC's IMO with special applications though they may not be the best for others, and I am worried AC swapping might cause some of those ACs to end up underrepresented.

 

I do see where you are coming from, I think, but at the same time... certains AC's, not to mention specs are already underrepresented. and the reason for that is that they don't perform as well as other options. that issue cannot be fixed with restrictions, simply because leveling a character is fairly easy, and people who chase flash of the month, just reroll. I've seen it happen time and again. the solution should be balancing specs and advanced classes better.

 

learning alternate specs, well... different people play differently and have different preferences.. I mean, one of my guildies has 3 marauders, and plays them identically. you'd think one would be enough in terms of playstyle, since you can just respec and experiment, and yet, they have 3. for the sole reason of enjoying the class, both playing it and leveling it. and well, role playing with it. I've seen other people with similar approach to playing. then there's people who will try everything at least once (I'm one of those). and yet again - there are people who stick to their preferred character and don't much move past it. people tend to stick to their preferences, and there's nothing wrong with it.

 

I can see fantastic raid applications to AC swap though, if it's treated as a way to switch specs. a fight that can be done with a single tank, and that's rough on melee dps. or fights that work better for melee dps. not having to switch out people, because you are having trouble progressing through a particular fight - because you need more AoE heavy dps, and all you have is single target... unless they switch AC's, adopting to the fights, to make it more doable and continuing to play with people you want to be playing.

 

today, due to last minute issues, we had trouble fielding our usual saturday 16 man. so eventually we ended up running 8 man. luckily enough we had enough alts to fill the roles that's gone missing and it was a bit bumpier than normal.. but imagine if it could be done on our mains instead...

 

there are drawbacks. of course there are drawbacks. I could see some guilds demanding for the ability to switch AC to be a requirement for their raiders, rather than an option. I could see people abusing it, to roll need on ALL gear (though lets be fair, they already do, its just right now its for alts and companions)

 

and to be perfectly honest? I'm not 100% sold on idea, mainly because I don't know how to prevent all the possible problems, or even if I see all the possible problems. gamers can be pretty genius at finding loopholes and exploits.

 

I support at least seriously considering it however, because I personally like flexibility (and ac swap in theory would add more flexibility, not less), and because we won't really know the full effect - good and bad, unless we try. at least on pts. if it goes badly, they can always cancel it and not add it to live build.

 

Last I checked I had both gear for Assassins and Sorcerers.. Now, I'm pretty sure the same goes for Vanguard and Commando.

 

and my vanguard can wear both, in fact, when she goes dps - she wears "commando" gear, because dps gear is the same. it works that way for all base classes. look at agent gear for example. there's gear with accuracy? and gear without accuracy. its all agent gear, it all looks the same, and the main difference is that gear without accuracy is meant for healing operatives. snipers and stabby operatives? use the same gear.

in fact - there isn't actually separate commando and vanguard gear, last I checked - even the names of the sets are not class based. there's tanking gear, healing gear and dps gear. 3 sets.

 

even warriors/knights. I mean, they have armor restrictions, but a lot of warrior players I know don't really look at the shell. they are in it for the mods. and now that set bonuses are attached to armorings (not to mention a mess of itemization that we have this tier)? you could almost say bioware encourages us to mix and match

Edited June 23, 2013 by Jeweledleah

[LordArtemis]

The OP claims that mobs have a chance to miss on force abilities?? Why does everywhere else say the exact opposite??

 

Why is it not reflected in the tool tip??

 

Your base force accuracy is already 100%..

 

Other than your link, nobody else has said that chance to hit on with force as decreased.. So I will trust other websites.. You think and believe what you want..

 

I have a lvl 55 shadow tank and in the process of leveling a sage.. A lot of people that I know have leveled both AC's.. I know a lot of people that have both commandos and Vanguards.. A lot of people have taken the time and made the effort.. Including myself..

 

Everyone else should do the same.. Instead of whining here..

 

The most ignored people in this forum are those that are arguing against AC swapping..

 

Take the posts above.. Where have you all read those arguments before?? I mean.. It isn't like those words haven't already been said by myself and countless others.. Yet constantly ignored.. You are right Lord.. It does say a lot about a person by how they handle themselves in a debate.. When countless people are making the same points over and over.. Still this thread continues to grow.. You just have to wonder about some people..

 

 

 

You really can't take a hint, can you.

 

What, no demands to explain or defend my views? No fist stomping demanding me to post proof you will ignore? No accusing me of being Pro AC change? Why not? It's all you've done almost the entire thread.

 

You can't seriously expect you and I to have a conversation after all of your blatant trolling.

 

You and I have NOTHING TO DISCUSS. Get it in your head. I have zero interest in talking about ANYTHING with someone like you. Period.

Edited August 9, 2013 by LordArtemis

[LordArtemis]

I do see where you are coming from, I think, but at the same time... certains AC's, not to mention specs are already underrepresented. and the reason for that is that they don't perform as well as other options. that issue cannot be fixed with restrictions, simply because leveling a character is fairly easy, and people who chase flash of the month, just reroll. I've seen it happen time and again. the solution should be balancing specs and advanced classes better.

 

I agree that many ACs still need quite a bit of work. I could name a few I think need help, but I think that's better for other pros...I'm not that good of a player to give an opinion on that sort of thing.

 

I just wonder if allowing AC change, and the choices folks would make as they gravitate toward those more desirable ACs might cause those ACs to get much less attention from the devs. It might not be a sensible fear, I admit.

 

learning alternate specs, well... different people play differently and have different preferences.. I mean, one of my guildies has 3 marauders, and plays them identically. you'd think one would be enough in terms of playstyle, since you can just respec and experiment, and yet, they have 3. for the sole reason of enjoying the class, both playing it and leveling it. and well, role playing with it. I've seen other people with similar approach to playing. then there's people who will try everything at least once (I'm one of those). and yet again - there are people who stick to their preferred character and don't much move past it. people tend to stick to their preferences, and there's nothing wrong with it.

 

3 Marauders...wow hehe. Yea, I agree people stick with what they like.

 

I can see fantastic raid applications to AC swap though, if it's treated as a way to switch specs. a fight that can be done with a single tank, and that's rough on melee dps. or fights that work better for melee dps. not having to switch out people, because you are having trouble progressing through a particular fight, instead adopting to it, to make it more doable and continuing to play with people you want to be playing.

 

There are sensible reasons to allow it, this is one of them I think. I'm just not sure the pros outweigh the cons IMO.

 

today, due to last minute issues, we had trouble fielding our usual saturday 16 man. so eventually we ended up running 8 man. luckily enough we had enough alts to fill the roles that's gone missing and it was a bit bumpier than normal.. but imagine if it could be done on our mains instead...

 

there are drawbacks. of course there are drawbacks. I could see some guilds demanding for the ability to switch AC to be a requirement for their raiders, rather than an option. I could see people abusing it, to roll need on ALL gear (though lets be fair, they already do, its just right now its for alts and companions)

 

Hmm. There you go. That is an example of one of my fears. Especially if folks start demanding other folks reAC to what they want you to be.

 

and to be perfectly honest? I'm not 100% sold on idea, mainly because I don't know how to prevent all the possible problems, or even if I see all the possible problems. gamers can be pretty genius at finding loopholes and exploits.

 

I support at least seriously considering it however, because I personally like flexibility (and ac swap in theory would add more flexibility, not less), and because we won't really know the full effect - good and bad, unless we try. at least on pts. if it goes badly, they can always cancel it and not add it to live build.

 

Well, I'm worried we will see this eventually based on a recent comment a dev made, so I think this discussion could at least put the breaks on free for all AC swapping...at least I hope.

 

I just wish it could stay the way it is. I realize, though, many things are changing and lots of folks seem to want this.

[MajikMyst]

I do see where you are coming from, I think, but at the same time... certains AC's, not to mention specs are already underrepresented. and the reason for that is that they don't perform as well as other options. that issue cannot be fixed with restrictions, simply because leveling a character is fairly easy, and people who chase flash of the month, just reroll. I've seen it happen time and again. the solution should be balancing specs and advanced classes better.

 

learning alternate specs, well... different people play differently and have different preferences.. I mean, one of my guildies has 3 marauders, and plays them identically. you'd think one would be enough in terms of playstyle, since you can just respec and experiment, and yet, they have 3. for the sole reason of enjoying the class, both playing it and leveling it. and well, role playing with it. I've seen other people with similar approach to playing. then there's people who will try everything at least once (I'm one of those). and yet again - there are people who stick to their preferred character and don't much move past it. people tend to stick to their preferences, and there's nothing wrong with it.

 

I can see fantastic raid applications to AC swap though, if it's treated as a way to switch specs. a fight that can be done with a single tank, and that's rough on melee dps. or fights that work better for melee dps. not having to switch out people, because you are having trouble progressing through a particular fight, instead adopting to it, to make it more doable and continuing to play with people you want to be playing.

 

today, due to last minute issues, we had trouble fielding our usual saturday 16 man. so eventually we ended up running 8 man. luckily enough we had enough alts to fill the roles that's gone missing and it was a bit bumpier than normal.. but imagine if it could be done on our mains instead...

 

there are drawbacks. of course there are drawbacks. I could see some guilds demanding for the ability to switch AC to be a requirement for their raiders, rather than an option. I could see people abusing it, to roll need on ALL gear (though lets be fair, they already do, its just right now its for alts and companions)

 

and to be perfectly honest? I'm not 100% sold on idea, mainly because I don't know how to prevent all the possible problems, or even if I see all the possible problems. gamers can be pretty genius at finding loopholes and exploits.

 

I support at least seriously considering it however, because I personally like flexibility (and ac swap in theory would add more flexibility, not less), and because we won't really know the full effect - good and bad, unless we try. at least on pts. if it goes badly, they can always cancel it and not add it to live build.

 

That is an awesome post..

 

You talk about flexibility?? Can't the same flexibility be accomplished by rolling the other AC?? I have a shadow tank now.. A sage coming up fast thanks to dbl XP weekends.. Couldn't someone just change toons?? As opposed to changing AC, then changing gear, and of course spec.. To me it would sound easier just to logout and back in on another toon.. Sure it is more work at first to level the other AC.. The other issue is that not swapping AC's eliminates the need to carry additional sets of gear around.. You won't have an additional bank.. You won't have an additional pack.. Rolling another AC gives you that extra bank, the extra pack, not to mention the extra body to wear all the extra gear..

 

You are also ignoring the issue that if they allow this once or twice.. We will never hear the end of it.. I mean you are already talking as if we can do it at will.. One of the biggest fears that many people have is the 'Give people an inch and they will take a mile.' issue.. Bioware allows it once or twice and we all won't hear the end of it.. Even if Bioware is firm about how this once or twice is it.. After that, your AC is permanent.. Sure.. Like it is now right??

 

There is nothing wrong with some restrictions in a game.. PacMan was in a maze remember.. (If you are to young for PacMan, I am sorry.. ) He couldn't just go any way he wanted to eat his dots.. He had to live within the confines of the maze.. Same with Mario Bros.. That game had restrictions.. WOW has restrictions.. Every MMO on the market today has restrictions.. All games have restrictions.. We as players need to live within those restrictions..

 

Would we be having this discussion if our AC was chosen at lvl 0 during character creation?? I believe that the answer is most likely no.. And if the answer is no.. Then there is no argument for AC swapping.. Not that there really was to begin with..

 

What about the integrity of the classes?? Would being able to swap AC's diminish the value of the class?? The entire point of having a class is to make the characters different.. If we start allowing characters to swap classes, then what is the point of having a class??

 

Again, you have a very good post..

Edited June 23, 2013 by MajikMyst

[MajikMyst]

You really can't take a hint, can you.

 

What, no demands to explain or defend my views? No fist stomping demanding me to post proof you will ignore? No accusing me of being Pro AC change? Why not? It's all you've done almost the entire thread.

 

You can't seriously expect you and I to have a conversation after all of your blatant trolling.

 

You and I have NOTHING TO DISCUSS. Get it in your head. I have zero interest in talking about ANYTHING with someone like you. Period.

 

Thanks for that post.. I just wanted to know which one of is civil.. Now I know.. Please though.. Keep being a jerk and fist pounding.. You are good at it.. As for trolling?? Well.. I am the one responding to people and not being a jerk.. You on the other hand.. Well.. Nevermind.. You probably wouldn't understand anyways..

 

As for what I expect?? I expect you to act like an adult and not spoiled child.. I accused you of being bias and pro AC because the way you post and how rude you are to those that are against it says otherwise.. If you were truly neutral on this issue then you would be embracing both sides of this issue.. But you are not.. You are barely interested in the arguments against.. You never respond to them.. You don't even try to see the other side of the issue.. And now you are just resorting to being rude and obnoxious..

 

If you don't want to talk to me, that is fine.. But do us all a favor will you?? Grow up..

Edited June 23, 2013 by MajikMyst

[Jeweledleah]

there are still 4 classes per faction - 4 stories. that's the point.

 

gearing a single character, even for multiple roles is ALWAYS faster than gearing several. in part because of com purchases supplementing drops. and in part because fielding multiple raid teams, setting up extra raid times is extremely challenging, vs finding a time slot for a single run per operation per week. there's only so many hours in a day for most of us, so we end up picking and choosing which characters to focus on. in case of our guild? we try to focus on the characters we progress through hard modes with.

 

sure some gear can be transferred over with legacy shells. and we do that. but things like relics, implants, earpieces, and barrels from offhands? cannot.

 

cannot transfer coms either- precious, precious ultimate coms.

 

there's one single advantage of running operations on alts vs sticking to same mains. and that's' the quest rewards from doing operation the first time (specifically - exotic mats that are otherwise rare drops and cost an arm and a leg on GTN). but that one time? is all you really need.

 

some restrictions are good. yet others are arbitrary.

 

you can still have alts and all those extra banks with AC swap. you still carry extra sets of gear right now, without AC swap. for some people its pve dps set, pve tanking/healing set/ and pvp set. why do they stick to the same character for all their playing? because that's the character they prefer. because which character they play? matters to them.

 

something that I have mentioned multiple times. sorcerer healer may be my main, but I have 14 alts. both factions. all AC's (many doubled across factions - for instance I have vanguard and a powertech, I have sage and sorc, scoundrel and operative, gunslinger and sniper) that's just how I like to play. I've been playing since launch though (mainly saying it to reiterate why I ended up with this many alts - i have been playing long enough)

 

but not everyone likes to play this way. not everyone likes replaying stories. heck, some people like the class, but barely made it through the story, so to reroll is pretty much not an option.

 

the point is not to reject the change outright out of fear, and try to enforce that rejection on everyone. the point is to at least consider it and see if those fears are justified. see from actual experience. that's why we have PTS after all - to test things.

Edited June 23, 2013 by Jeweledleah

[LordArtemis]

If you don't want to talk to me, that is fine.. But do us all a favor will you?? Grow up..

 

If I am sure of anything it's that you of all people shouldn't give ANYONE this advice.

 

There is no reason to be insulted Majik. I don't like you. I don't like your posting style. I don't like your post history. I don't like your constant trolling. I REALLY don't like the fact you ignore anything that proves you wrong.

 

But that isn't the end of the world. What I think means nothing. You certainly do not need my approval or my permission to speak your mind.

 

If you change your post style (the last few posts were better) than that's great.

 

But I have to say...I'd compare my post history to yours any day of the week. You made some serious mistakes you simply can't erase.

 

1) you accused more than one person of being pro AC when they were not.

2) you directly insulted more than one member in this thread.

3) you posted quotes in which you changed words to make them mean what you wanted them to mean. When you were called on it and the proof of the real post was posted, you ignored the proof.

4) you demeaned respected members of the community, and then used very old information to back up your views instead of admitting your mistake.

 

It is unfortunate...because I am embarrassed to say you and I are on the same side. But asking me to defend the very contentions that I do not agree with was the last straw. I don't see anyone asking you to defend any contentions the pro side have made, nor is anyone accusing you of being a pro AC change member. Yet you have done exactly that to more than one member.

 

Your behavior has been deplorable. The evidence is littered all over this forum. Me, on the other hand, I have had many good conversations with the Pro AC change folks. Can you say the same?

 

You are an embarrassment to the Anti AC change movement. If you have accomplished anything it is that you have weakened our stance and legitimacy in this discussion.

 

I don't like you or Hizoka...that's it...but at least Hizoka respected my wish to stop quoting my posts. That demonstrates a certain level of maturity and control and I have to respect that. You can't seem to do that.

 

If I see an actual change in your posting behavior I MIGHT start talking to you again.

 

Until then we have nothing further to discuss.

Edited June 23, 2013 by LordArtemis

[LordArtemis]

there are still 4 classes per faction - 4 stories. that's the point.

 

gearing a single character, even for multiple roles is ALWAYS faster than gearing several. in part because of com purchases supplementing drops. and in part because fielding multiple raid teams, setting up extra raid times is extremely challenging, vs finding a time slot for a single run per operation per week. there's only so many hours in a day for most of us, so we end up picking and choosing which characters to focus on. in case of our guild? we try to focus on the characters we progress through hard modes with.

 

sure some gear can be transferred over with legacy shells. and we do that. but things like relics, implants, earpieces, and barrels from offhands? cannot.

 

cannot transfer coms either- precious, precious ultimate coms.

 

there's one single advantage of running operations on alts vs sticking to same mains. and that's' the quest rewards from doing operation the first time (specifically - exotic mats that are otherwise rare drops and cost an arm and a leg on GTN). but that one time? is all you really need.

 

some restrictions are good. yet others are arbitrary.

 

you can still have alts and all those extra banks with AC swap. you still carry extra sets of gear right now, without AC swap. for some people its pve dps set, pve tanking/healing set/ and pvp set. why do they stick to the same character for all their playing? because that's the character they prefer. because which character they play? matters to them.

 

something that I have mentioned multiple times. sorcerer healer may be my main, but I have 14 alts. both factions. all AC's (many doubled across factions - for instance I have vanguard and a powertech, I have sage and sorc, scoundrel and operative, gunslinger and sniper) that's just how I like to play. I've been playing since launch though (mainly saying it to reiterate why I ended up with this many alts - i have been playing long enough)

 

but not everyone likes to play this way. not everyone likes replaying stories. heck, some people like the class, but barely made it through the story, so to reroll is pretty much not an option.

 

the point is not to reject the change outright out of fear, and try to enforce that rejection on everyone. the point is to at least consider it and see if those fears are justified. see from actual experience. that's why we have PTS after all - to test things.

 

I can actually sympathize with those folks that get tired of running through the same story again. Especially some of the less enjoyable ones.

 

I for one ran the Agent story three times...IMO the best storyline in the game, but that's debatable naturally.

 

I would be open to some kind of PTS test or poll to gauge how the community would react.