Who feels like a valued subscriber?

[Cleet_Xia]

Last time I'll say this. You pay for access. Period. It's a business relationship.

 

The content patches come out and everyone can use them with restrictions. You have no restrictions because you pay for access. Content patches are not part of your subscription, they come with the game itself which is free to play. You are paying for unlimited, unrestricted access to the core game.

 

Being a subscriber doesn't entitle you to anything more than that. If you go back to free 2 play the game isn't going to stop development for you.

 

NO I am paying for access + development

 

IF you're only paying for access to an MMO that is because it is in maintenance mode.

 

The cadence of additional content added for subscribers as part of their subscription has NOSE DIVED since f2p went live.

 

What did we get between f2p & the and the PAID expac? - the Gree event and whatever content you could buy with your monthly stipend of CC.

 

Well, I'm not impressed at all with what my monthly stipend will buy. In fact - it mostly just sits there. Aside from bag space & global legacy unlocks ~ it's been almost useless.

 

Playing "unencumbered by the restrictions of f2p" is NOT a feature. I was already getting those things as a part of my sub. Saying that playing "unencumbered by the restrictions of f2p" is a feature is like saying, you really should have been paying us more all along for your sub. NO MMO is worth more than $15 a month.

 

Guess what - some of the "restrictions" now placed on f2p players - were exactly the same restrictions everyone had when the game launched.

no sprint until level 15 - that's how it was for everyone

no speeders until level 25 - that's how it was for everyone

 

That does not mean that subs shouldn't have gotten sprint reduced to level 1 or speeders to 15. Those things were updated to improve the player experience and enjoyment. And the only thing added to "improve my player experience and enjoyment" as a sub, that came from my sub, for 6 months has been ONE event.

[CyberTronX]

It's funny though, these forums will never give you an accurate view of what the state of the game is. That is because the micro transactions take place in game from the people that play it.

 

Log on and go to your fleet. See for yourself how many people are using these new features. That's the test that matters. Not the forum criers. Not the random people that post on internet sites. The people that already play your game and are logged in.

 

And really if you feel you are being abused for cosmetic changes that have nothing to do with gameplay we can't have a rational conversation anyway.

 

This is 100% accurate. The forums for any game are THE WORST PLACE to figure out if it's worth buying or not. Forum posters, particularly negative ones, are absolutely the vocal minority. They may see themselves as the 99%, but it's not how it really is.

 

Logging on to fleet, I see piles of people around the kiosk, and many applying changes. I was one of them last night, and will continue to enjoy the new stuff as much as my monthly grant allows. Beyond that, I play for gameplay, not how pretty my toon looks.

 

I also sub based on how the game is now, not how I want it to be. If you sub for future content, you're going to be universally disappointed. Instead, figure out if current implementation is worth your money, and consider future content fun bonuses. You'll be a lot happier.

Edited May 15, 2013 by CyberTronX

[Tim-ONeil]

NO I am paying for access + development

 

This is where you need to change your thinking. In this model, it's not true. Development will happen for everyone regardless of if you are a subscriber or not. You are paying for access as a subscriber on an individual level. We aren't special as subscribers but we get perks to make it easier to pay the $15 per month. Those are part of the subscription themselves.

 

Regardless, content patch in 4 weeks. If you decide to unsub... the content will still be available to you.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Tim-ONeil

[LordArtemis]

It's funny though, these forums will never give you an accurate view of what the state of the game is. That is because the micro transactions take place in game from the people that play it.

 

Log on and go to your fleet. See for yourself how many people are using these new features. That's the test that matters. Not the forum criers. Not the random people that post on internet sites. The people that already play your game and are logged in.

 

And really if you feel you are being abused for cosmetic changes that have nothing to do with gameplay we can't have a rational conversation anyway.

 

The only way Tim that I would say this comment would be inaccurate, IMO, is that the forums can often be a good gauge as to how the community is feeling about the game overall. A litmus test if you will.

 

For instance, the state of the forum back in the spring did, in fact, mirror how the gaming community felt overall for the game if you consider the massive loss of subs any indication.

 

Complaints should not be ignored IMO. But they should be taken with a bit of reservation since folks can be pretty emotional overall.

[ZahirS]

This is 100% accurate. The forums for any game are THE WORST PLACE to figure out if it's worth buying or not. Forum posters, particularly negative ones, are absolutely the vocal minority. They may see themselves as the 99%, but it's not how it really is.

 

You really should take a statistics class, period. 1 negative trend in the forums means the chances it affects the game is high, player expectations come from different ways one is playing other are reviews, friends, networking.

 

People you see in kiosks will last a couple of days then they will logg off for the lack of content, those people you see are the persons that try new content as fast as possible.

Edited May 15, 2013 by ZahirS

[CyberTronX]

You really should take a statistics class, period. 1 negative trend in the forums means means the chances it affects the game is high, player expectations come from different ways one is playing other are reviews, friends, networking.

 

People you see in kiosks will last a couple of days then they will logg off for the lack of content, those people you see are the persons that try new content as fast as possible.

 

I'd also proof read my posts if I'm telling someone to get better educated.

 

Also, your 1 negative trend point:

If I get a hair in my fries, does it mean everybody is going to get the same thing? Absolutely not. But that one guy that does is gonna voice his opinion, you better believe it.

 

Statistics matter over time. While the initial surge of people using the feature will dwindle, the fact that people are using it at all is a testament to the fact that not all subs or even people in general consider this feature or its implementation bad.

 

I also form my own opinion about games. Reviews are generally not the same as my opinion, friends' opinions of games are not my own personal view, and networking brings out more people that want to cry about everything they don't like than anything else.

 

Also, statistics classes bore me, because numbers, and I am horrible at math.

Edited May 15, 2013 by CyberTronX

[Jeweledleah]

the fact that the game is becoming more about microtransactions and less about package deals is the reason why i don't feel like my subscription is valuable anymore. YMMV naturally and it also depends on how often you utilize certain features, but with more and more features being cartel coin exclusive, its better to just buy coins directly. either transaction supports game development, but direct coin purchases seem to have more benefit attached to them, then flat subscription fee. at least to me.

 

as to what would make me feel like my subscription is worth it? make added features cartel coin purchasable for f2p, give them to subscribers for choice of coins or in game credits (or just available outright like section x) right now only old features are subject to that (specifically race selection, number of character slots, aforementioned section x), new features seem to be cartel coins required regardless of your subscription status. I'm done creating characters. and i have section x unlock sitting in my cargo hold.

[bionamaster]

I don't think this continued argument is relevant. The people who want to use the Kiosk use it, those who don't want to use it, simply ignore it's existence.

[Andryah]

The only way Tim that I would say this comment would be inaccurate, IMO, is that the forums can often be a good gauge as to how the community is feeling about the game overall. A litmus test if you will.

 

It's a poor litmus test when people flame and complain in multiple repeat threads, mostly to vent I think (but are too cowardly to admit it), and yet if anyone tries to post reasoned counter comment or try to talk reason in any form.. they get called fanbois, BW shills, etc. etc.

 

Can you see how that would be a poor litmus test?

 

You want to know the real litmus tests? It's the telemetry that Bioware has to track and analyze player activities, what they aquire, how they aquire it, and dozens of other key metrics to see what is actually going on inside the game worlds rather then this emotion fest of people complaining about anything and everything.

 

The forum is a place for people of differing views to share and discuss those views. Being a gaming forum.. more often then not.. the forum channel is over-run with multiple repeating negative complaints (with little real constructive comment in some threads). It's not a litmus test of player needs/wants/center_of_attention. It's mostly a vent fest after any patch, or even when a patch is not scheduled for a Tuesday... or when the sun comes up for that matter.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Andryah

[Tim-ONeil]

You really should take a statistics class, period. 1 negative trend in the forums means the chances it affects the game is high, player expectations come from different ways one is playing other are reviews, friends, networking.

 

People you see in kiosks will last a couple of days then they will logg off for the lack of content, those people you see are the persons that try new content as fast as possible.

 

And the numbers are being run right now by Bioware based on, you guessed it, in game data. If that isn't consistent with what they expect to see changes will be made to their model. Changes would NEVER have been made based on forum posts alone because of all the things EA is accused of one thing that is truth is that they are extremely business savvy.

 

So the complaints boil down to two things. I have to pay real money to change my appearance, and you put the dye in cartel like packs. I don't see either of those issues being a problem long term. Cartel packs have already been accepted by the player base. They might moan about it but they buy them in droves and the conference call is proof of that.

 

Paying real money to change your appearance isn't going to remain a hot topic issue. The next patch will be released and the pitchforks and torches will be on that instead.

[ZahirS]

And the numbers are being run right now by Bioware based on, you guessed it, in game data. If that isn't consistent with what they expect to see changes will be made to their model. Changes would NEVER have been made based on forum posts alone because of all the things EA is accused of one thing that is truth is that they are extremely business savvy.

 

So the complaints boil down to two things. I have to pay real money to change my appearance, and you put the dye in cartel like packs. I don't see either of those issues being a problem long term. Cartel packs have already been accepted by the player base. They might moan about it but they buy them in droves and the conference call is proof of that.

 

Paying real money to change your appearance isn't going to remain a hot topic issue. The next patch will be released and the pitchforks and torches will be on that instead.

 

Give me metrics and you would still be wrong.

 

Trends believe it or not affect gameplay, is one of the way for developer to know when something is wrong or is widely accepted.

 

Next patch even less people will join in.

[Andryah]

And the numbers are being run right now by Bioware based on, you guessed it, in game data. If that isn't consistent with what they expect to see changes will be made to their model. Changes would NEVER have been made based on forum posts alone because of all the things EA is accused of one thing that is truth is that they are extremely business savvy.

 

So the complaints boil down to two things. I have to pay real money to change my appearance, and you put the dye in cartel like packs. I don't see either of those issues being a problem long term. Cartel packs have already been accepted by the player base. They might moan about it but they buy them in droves and the conference call is proof of that.

 

Paying real money to change your appearance isn't going to remain a hot topic issue. The next patch will be released and the pitchforks and torches will be on that instead.

 

Yep, pretty much sums it up. Been this way since launch.. will be this way a year from now and a year after that.

Though after several months of grasping at straws to complain about.. this last patch has given plenty of things to go berserk about.. mostly trivial IMO. There are some valid complaints of course.. but they get drowned out by the masses assailing the walls of the forum with volley after volley of the same basic attacks.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Andryah

[CyberTronX]

Yep, pretty much sums it up. Been this way since launch.. will be this way a year from now and a year after that.

 

Yes, and every internet community for anything is like this. Go from controversy to controversy slamming whatever's the most recent. Give it 6 months and barely anyone will remember this issue. To be honest that's what it feels like EA wants. Get away with something, let it sit for a while and be forgotten about, then do something else they can get away with.

 

However, the good still outweighs the bad to me, and I'm looking forward to the upcoming content patch, where once again, I shall ask myself if my sub fee is worth the game I play.

[Andryah]

Give me metrics and you would still be wrong.

 

Trends believe it or not affect gameplay, is one of the way for developer to know when something is wrong or is widely accepted.

 

Next patch even less people will join in.

 

Any game company that manages their game property based on "forum trends" is not long for the real world. In game metrics are what matters, both front end (ie; transaction analysis of details) and backend (ie: meta themes about player focus of attention and activities.

 

TL;DR A forum of players is is qualified to criticize and discuss a game, but is not qualified to drive game design and maintenance. You don't have to like it.. but it's the way it is. A forum of game players is qualified to make suggestions and discuss them, NOT evaluate and implement them.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Andryah

[JediJonesJr]

i see ms fanboy continues to mock people who sub and feels we have no right to express our concerns but at least bw can count on the fanboys for now but even that comes to an end sooner or later.

 

keep on telling people their complaints are not legit hide behind the fact you sound like a paid PR person for BW/EA you sure sound like it 99% of the time.

 

keep on telling people what they can say and what the can't every mmo has a ringer in forums to monitor and downplay others who disagree with your concept of bend over and take it.

Edited May 15, 2013 by JediJonesJr

[Tim-ONeil]

Give me metrics and you would still be wrong.

 

Trends believe it or not affect gameplay, is one of the way for developer to know when something is wrong or is widely accepted.

 

Next patch even less people will join in.

 

Let me ask you this. How long have you been on these forums? Where you here when the cartel market hit and the forums were extremely negative towards the game moving in that direction? If you were you'd understand that there's a large disconnect there from perception to reality.

[bionamaster]

i see ms fanboy continues to mock people who sub and feels we have no right to express our concerns but at least bw can count on the fanboys for now but even that comes to an end sooner or later.

 

keep on telling people their complaints are not legit hide behind the fact you sound like a paid PR person for BW/EA you sure sound like it 99% of the time.

Expressing concerns is fine. Politely suggesting things is fine. Demanding that Bioware obey your every whim, do this, do that, do your laundry: not your job.

Edited May 15, 2013 by bionamaster

[ZahirS]

Any game company that manages their game property based on "forum trends" is not long for the real world. In game metrics are what matters, both front end (ie; transaction analysis of details) and backend (ie: meta themes about player focus of attention and activities.

 

TL;DR A forum of players is is qualified to criticize and discuss a game, but is not qualified to drive game design and maintenance. You don't have to like it.. but it's the way it is. A forum of game players is qualified to make suggestions and discuss them, NOT evaluate and implement them.

 

I know how it works, but still word of mouth takes a great deal in metrics, hell forums trends can even hint future events like decline or rise of subscribers.

 

It how it works, players might not implement them but they are definetly testing them as end-game product, and there are way to know if your customer satisfaction is rising or declining.

[CyberTronX]

i see ms fanboy continues to mock people who sub and feels we have no right to express our concerns but at least bw can count on the fanboys for now but even that comes to an end sooner or later.

 

keep on telling people their complaints are not legit hide behind the fact you sound like a paid PR person for BW/EA you sure sound like it 99% of the time.

 

It helps if you actually quote the person you're attempting to insult.

Also, people are entitled to have any opinion they wish, and voice it here, within reason. The guy that feels his $15 is absolutely worth it is just as right as the guy who unsubbed 2 weeks after launch because he thought the opposite.

 

Opinions are opinions, not facts, and should not be taken as such.

[Andryah]

On topic.

 

I feel like a valued subsriber because I am getting the value I personally want and expect from the game. When I do not, I will logout and leave and play something else. What I won't do is hang around the forums and pay to complain and call anyone who disagrees with me a fanboy or a secret Bioware employee.

 

Until such time as I decide to move on.. yes I feel valued as my needs are largely being met, even though the game is not perfect and everything is not implemented exactly the way I would like. But see, I don't need everything to be perfect or exactly the way I would like. I actually enjoy working through constraints and limits (and even bugs) in the game. Every MMO has them.. might was well play with them rather then against them IMO.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Andryah

[PlasmaJohn]

Log on and go to your fleet. See for yourself how many people are using these new features.

Of course lots of people were standing around gawking at the new shiny, including me. Heck they did that to the IG CM vendor and now it's yet another empty booth. Give it a month and see how busy it is.

 

I did look around to see who used it. Other than a few Cathar only one person really stood out due to having one of the new hairstyles and a... uh... "high visibility" dye job. I'm sure there are several people using it now. I'm sure there are several people that used it who disagree with the nickle-and-dime amounts of CC for minor cosmetics. Heck I like one of the hairstyles so much I was tempted... except I like the hair on the one human female character I have.

 

What EA gained in sales they lost in word-of-mouth advertising. Hey Joe I heard you're tired of GW2 you should come over to TOR... what? Oh sure, they just added a cosmetic feature. Uhm... by the way you have to spend real money to use it... but... but... it's only 40 cents. Seriously you can stop laughing now the game is really fun... oh, ok fine, sorry for wasting your time.

[CyberTronX]

On topic.

 

I feel like a valued subsriber because I am getting the value I personally want and expect from the game. When I do not, I will logout and leave and play something else. What I won't do is hang around the forums and pay to complain.

 

Until such time as I decide to move on.. yes I feel valued as my needs are largely being met, even though the game is not perfect and everything is not implemented exactly the way I would like. But see, I don't need everything to be perfect or exactly the way I would like. I actually enjoy working through constraints and limits (and even bugs) in the game. Every MMO has them.. might was well play with them rather then against them IMO.

 

Absolutely. I do the same. However, I also peruse the forums to enjoy the rage threads that get generated with every patch.

 

"But see, I don't need everything to be perfect or exactly the way I would like. I actually enjoy working through constraints and limits (and even bugs) in the game. Every MMO has them.. might was well play with them rather then against them"

 

I wish to give you a cookie. Is there a way I can do that?

 

There are some HILARIOUS bugs in ToR that I hope NEVER get fixed. Things that give the game life to me. Companions occasionally running off of elevators and falling to their deaths being a hilarious example.

 

Even things like comps neaver sheathing their weapons (which bugged the sh*t out of my ocd) I lived with because it made no impact on gameplay, and I still enjoyed the game even with that bug very much.

Edited May 15, 2013 by CyberTronX

[JediJonesJr]

It helps if you actually quote the person you're attempting to insult.

Also, people are entitled to have any opinion they wish, and voice it here, within reason. The guy that feels his $15 is absolutely worth it is just as right as the guy who unsubbed 2 weeks after launch because he thought the opposite.

 

Opinions are opinions, not facts, and should not be taken as such.

 

the person i refer to is the same one who tells paying subs they dont im sure you can figure it out .

 

just read the forums you will get a clue fast.

[Cleet_Xia]

How I have possibly forgotten about the other content for subs that was added since f2p?

 

6 heroic space missions ~ that were all but gated behind a CM paywall, If you can beat any of them with only grade 7 parts available without using CC ~ youtube or it didn't happen

 

The rep system and it's venders ~ here's an incentive to grind some reaaallly old content with a couple of lackluster gear sets to earn. ~ Which immediately morphed into a CM buyers reward program with venders who's inventory made the what subs get pale by comparison.

 

Meanwhile, can I interest you in the prettiest modable armor players have seen since launch? - it's onnnly $7.50

 

/sarcasm off

 

I feel like RotHC was worth what I paid for it ~ but I did pay for it.

[bionamaster]

Of course lots of people were standing around gawking at the new shiny, including me. Heck they did that to the IG CM vendor and now it's yet another empty booth. Give it a month and see how busy it is.

 

I did look around to see who used it. Other than a few Cathar only one person really stood out due to having one of the new hairstyles and a... uh... "high visibility" dye job. I'm sure there are several people using it now. I'm sure there are several people that used it who disagree with the nickle-and-dime amounts of CC for minor cosmetics. Heck I like one of the hairstyles so much I was tempted... except I like the hair on the one human female character I have.

 

What EA gained in sales they lost in word-of-mouth advertising. Hey Joe I heard you're tired of GW2 you should come over to TOR... what? Oh sure, they just added a cosmetic feature. Uhm... by the way you have to spend real money to use it... but... but... it's only 40 cents. Seriously you can stop laughing now the game is really fun... oh, ok fine, sorry for wasting your time.

 

How that story would, most likely, play out:

Hey Joe, heard you're tired of GW2, wanna try SWTOR? They just added a cosmetic feature, but it isn't free. What's that? No different then GW2's version? Great, I'll see you on the Fleet.