I fear for the future of this game.

[CaptRavenous]

Reality is that if the only thing we now have to worry about are reskinned money grabs and digital expansions then thats a tidal wave of good news.

 

6months back the subscriber numbers bottomed out (at allegedly 350k) and the game was omitted from any and all mention by EA. Now it's around 500k subs, still growing and supplemented with a healthy enough f2p revenue stream to warrant a pat on the back for being one of the largetst successes of said model from the publisher which happens to be the biggest in the biz.

 

So yea, if recolored armor and miniexpansions with one raids (I dont get the s&v jibe at all btw, easily the largest/best op they did?) are the only thing I have to worry about now we had a tempest of cute kittens cos this time last month I was half way resigned to this game going the way of warhammer online with its maintenance mode wait for a slow slow death.

 

Now I got a positive trend, positive forecast and a renewed commitment to continued support and development I can actually place faith into cos it makes fiscal sense for the publisher to back it as the game is making them good money.

 

If the game IS steadily gaining subscribers, then its only a matter of time before we exceed 500k subs again, if not already. They said something like 2 or 3 million new accounts created since F2P. I would imagine at least 5% of those are new subscriptions, and that's probably a VERY conservative number. The majority of the new accounts are probably preferred accounts, people who have either spent some money on the CM from a F2P account, or fickle subscribers, subscribing for a month or two to check out the new expansion.

 

Eventually, if they keep working to improve the game, then we'll snag more and more subscribers as time goes by.

 

EVE online had a small start. 10 years later, they're sill online and seeing steady growth over time.

 

Maybe SW:TOR will be the first F2P MMO to do so, who knows? There's MANY MMOs that have done MUCH worse than SW:TOR has, or has yet to do.

Edited May 12, 2013 by CaptRavenous

[Tsillah]

Subs are below 500k (they were somewhere between 500k and 1mil last quarter), so falling, revenues doubled because of CM, meaning the focus will be more and more on CM aka bullcrap.

 

Yes, I fear for the future of this game as well - more dribble in the form of S&V and re-skinned armor sold for real money, not to mention patches like 2.1 entirely focused on CM.

 

You guys are funny. You assume that you were told when they hit their minimum with subs. Of course they didn't. Subs hit rock bottom at some point and have stabilised now. Add to that the cartel shop and the game is in good shape again. It is going up again as far as the game's health is concerned.

 

Add to that the fact that EA signed an exclusive deal with Disney so only they can bring out Star Wars games and you can safely say that SWTOR is in much better shape than it was 6 months ago.

 

WoW aside, no game has ever been able to maintain millions of subs. They were the lucky ones to be there at the right time.

 

This game has had some real lows but I wonder why the OP is posting this. He hasn't got a clue obviously about the numbers to begin with and also you seem to miss what is going on. When they dived under a million subs, well, that was a while ago. It obviously didn't stop then. Now the game is doing better. What an odd time to start a thread like this....or is the OP just trolling?

[CaptRavenous]

You guys are funny. You assume that you were told when they hit their minimum with subs. Of course they didn't. Subs hit rock bottom at some point and have stabilised now. Add to that the cartel shop and the game is in good shape again. It is going up again as far as the game's health is concerned.

 

Add to that the fact that EA signed an exclusive deal with Disney so only they can bring out Star Wars games and you can safely say that SWTOR is in much better shape than it was 6 months ago.

 

WoW aside, no game has ever been able to maintain millions of subs. They were the lucky ones to be there at the right time.

 

This game has had some real lows but I wonder why the OP is posting this. He hasn't got a clue obviously about the numbers to begin with and also you seem to miss what is going on. When they dived under a million subs, well, that was a while ago. It obviously didn't stop then. Now the game is doing better. What an odd time to start a thread like this....or is the OP just trolling?

 

Trying to rock the boat, maybe.

[Levity]

When a game goes F2P, traditionally revenues go up. This is because most people on this planet are stupid, and are more willing to pay more for something if it's presented in inexpensive little chunks than they are to pay slightly more for it up front. It's like saying you can buy a 12-pack of 20oz sodas for $6, or single 16oz sodas for $1 each.

 

Some people will say "Hell, I'm going to drink 12 sodas anyway, and $6 isn't a bad price, so let's just go ahead and get the 12-pack. Besides, I even get a bigger soda in the deal, which is cool" Other people say "I'm not paying $6 for a whole 12-pack of soda! What a rip off!" But they'll then proceed to buy and consume 12 sodas anyway, because eventually they get thirsty again, pay double the price for them, and get less soda overall than a person who just paid his due up front. And this person is generally content to do just that, and most often feels like he's actually making out on the deal.

 

Generally speaking, F2P players spend significantly more on average per player to play the game than subscription players do, and they do so despite a perception that they're saving money. And although you hear a lot of grumbling about it, players LOVE to participate in microtransactions. Well, "love" is probably not the right word... but still, they do it over and over and over even if they're not particularly fond of doing so. And you know who eats up microtransactions more than anyone else? F2P players.

 

Hell, as long as there is a strong F2P community in this game, it will keep going for a looooong time. I'd fear for the day when most F2P players finally wake up and realize they could just be paying less to sub.

 

Eh, those same players will subscribe, then continue to buy CM stuff.

[CosmicKat]

Its worked well for Lord of the Rings Online.

 

I didn't say it can't work, I've seen it work firsthand in Champions Online.

 

What CO did though was to modify the game from what initially failed and add in the F2P revenue stream.

 

TOR has not modified the core that originally failed. It would not be a leap to assume that what initially could not retain customers, will still not be able to retain customers.

[Andryah]

they said subscriptions have stabilized, and are steadily increasing. see the full ea quarterly report here. there are links in the report for what was said at the conference call.

 

Nothing is falling here, except maybe the sky in your imagination.

 

qft.

[CosmicKat]

I guess my city where I'm from is dead, it only has give or take 500,000 residents.

 

If the city you are in had 2+ million people last year, and 500k this year, and there is no zombie apocalypse currently underway, then your city is in trouble.

[MTCason]

If the city you are in had 2+ million people last year, and 500k this year, and there is no zombie apocalypse currently underway, then your city is in trouble.

 

Not if the 500k who are left are paying more than 4x what the 2 million previously paid to live in that city. Which they are, and then some.

[Krewel]

I'm sorry, I must have missed the part where they said "below 500k".

 

Could you point that out? I can be slow on the pickup, sometimes.

 

http://www.pcgamer.com/2013/05/10/swtors-average-monthly-revenue-has-doubled-since-going-f2p/

 

Gibeau himself states subs have stabilised at just below 500k. Right before they hit F2P, they announced sub numbers wavered between 500k and 1mil (can't be bothered to look that up, do it yourself if you wish).

[CosmicKat]

Not if the 500k who are left are paying more than 4x what the 2 million previously paid to live in that city. Which they are, and then some.

 

That would be great, if it were true, but it isn't.

 

The non-subscribers are paying roughly what 500k subscribers would be paying, according to EA's figures.

[aeterno]

The underlying point here is that in the regard of fearing the future we moved from the realm of fearing for the very existence of TOR itself to fearing for the "creative direction" of it.

 

Much to the heartbreak of many a hater no doubt.

[MTCason]

That would be great, if it were true, but it isn't.

 

The non-subscribers are paying roughly what 500k subscribers would be paying, according to EA's figures.

 

I'm talking about the 500k subscribers. No one knows how many non-subscribers there are, but altogether revenues have more than doubled since going FTP. I know I myself have spent over $1,000 USD on the game since it went FTP and I am sure I'm not the only one. I'm not a wealthy individual but when Bioware and EA continue to give us content that is worth paying for, and I would go so far as to say that the Cartel Market is probably the single most successful and attractive (at least in my eyes) revenue model I've ever seen in a free-to-play environment, I'll continue to shell out every time a new pack is released. If I'm already paying more for this game than I would have in the entire decade-long lifetime of a game like World of Warcraft, then yes, they're doing something right.

[Arkerus]

Ignorance is thick on the forums today.

 

Just another armchair analyst who ignores facts and postulates that 500k subs is a bad thing and completely discounts the million "free" accounts and millions they made from those accounts.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Arkerus

[CosmicKat]

I'm talking about the 500k subscribers. No one knows how many non-subscribers there are, but altogether revenues have more than doubled since going FTP. I know I myself have spent over $1,000 USD on the game since it went FTP and I am sure I'm not the only one. I'm not a wealthy individual but when Bioware and EA continue to give us content that is worth paying for, and I would go so far as to say that the Cartel Market is probably the single most successful and attractive (at least in my eyes) revenue model I've ever seen in a free-to-play environment, I'll continue to shell out every time a new pack is released. If I'm already paying more for this game than I would have in the entire decade-long lifetime of a game like World of Warcraft, then yes, they're doing something right.

 

That's exactly my point...

 

Revenues have doubled since the move to F2P. We had somewhere around 500k subscribers before that. This means the revenue is equivalent to (2 x 500k) 1 million subscribers, which means the F2P are the equivalent of (1M/2) 500k subscribers.

[Uldihaa]

Having over 6 million copies sold when this game came out and only having around 500k subs scares me.

 

F2P doesn't bring in as much money compared to subs, even with the Cartel market.

 

Anyone else fear for the future of the game?

 

First, EA itself has stated that it sold 2 million copies, not 6 million.

 

Second, that number is how many were sold to retail stores, not players. At it's (subscription) height, SWTOR had 1.7 million players. This was a month after launch and when it was still subscription-only. Take note of the "missing" 300,000. This is common when a publishing company reports sales. It reports how many it sold to retailers.

 

Third, there is NO WAY to definitively and objectively know how many players are playing SWTOR, nor how many are making micro-transactions outside of what EA claims. There isn't even a way to judge how many players are subbing independent of EA or Bioware's statements. Why? Because SWTOR does not allow third-party addons, thus the programs that gather that information are unusable.

 

So, in the end, how you view the state of the game is totally subjective and anecdotal.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Uldihaa

[MTCason]

That's exactly my point...

 

Revenues have doubled since the move to F2P. We had somewhere around 500k subscribers before that. This means the revenue is equivalent to (2 x 500k) 1 million subscribers, which means the F2P are the equivalent of (1M/2) 500k subscribers.

 

Oh, so you have actual data on the game's revenues and membership pre-FTP? If so, I'd love to see it because as far as I know EA and Bioware have never commented on the game's revenues in any substantive manner prior to the latest earnings report. Game revenues have more than doubled in four months' time. You're affirming that on one hand while accusing the game of dying out on another. Those two facts are completely incompatible.

[Shingara]

I fear for the future of humanity after reading this topic.

[Toxxo]

The future of the Star Wars franchise on games is fine and this particular game isn't in any imminent danger. It could do with some big tweaks though. For example, the customer service and lines of communication (internal and external) could be enormously improved. More effort has to be made addressing bugs and glitches. There also needs to be more variety in the CM rather than a 'trickle-down' of reskinned or rehashed items. It would also be nice to see a 'full-size' expansion. Makeb is fantastic and very visually appealing but I think it would be nice to have 2-3 new planets - somewhere to start the levelling process rather than the normal start/levelling areas. Oh and a fully open-world PvP planet with persistant gain/loss for specific areas/objectives.

[Jamus_Divinus]

Right before they hit F2P, they announced sub numbers wavered between 500k and 1mil (can't be bothered to look that up, do it yourself if you wish).

 

F2P was November.

The quote you're talking about is from July before the end of the 6 month account dropoff. It seems reasonable to think that the subs kept falling between July and November and so F2P probably did stabilize the subs while increasing the overall revenue. I did fear for this game back last summer. I don't anymore.

 

You're welcome

Edited May 12, 2013 by Jamus_Divinus

[CosmicKat]

Oh, so you have actual data on the game's revenues and membership pre-FTP? If so, I'd love to see it because as far as I know EA and Bioware have never commented on the game's revenues in any substantive manner prior to the latest earnings report. Game revenues have more than doubled in four months' time. You're affirming that on one hand while accusing the game of dying out on another. Those two facts are completely incompatible.

 

I'm just basing my numbers on what EA said they had pre-F2P and since F2P.

 

I said the game was dying. Since EA's most recent numbers said it had fallen below 500k, which they previously stated was their break-even point, it's pretty obvious is was indeed dying or losing money, which is not something Greedy McMoneybags Corporations like EA and Lucasfilm would have tolerated for long.

[HugoBendtsen]

They only sold around 2-2.5 million I think it was.

 

F2P bought them some time. It's up in the air as to what they will do with that time, but the initial track record is not overly promising. They've still done almost nothing to fix the reasons why they lost those 1.5-2 million subscribers in the first place.

 

hello

 

what the **** am i going to do now?

 

S&V HM down in 2 nights =/

 

oh yeah, i read that's what scared people off in the first place

[Grimmjon]

It scares the crap out of me. Time to get superliminal with it.

 

HEY YOU! SUB TO SWTOR!

[ZahirS]

Actually people, wake up.

 

Bioware/EA should be getting DOUBLE those figures. why?

 

F2P model and Cartel Market is not working to its full potential, they need to eliminate some restrictions and clean the cartel market to be more friendly to new players.

[Uldihaa]

They only sold around 2-2.5 million I think it was.

 

F2P bought them some time. It's up in the air as to what they will do with that time, but the initial track record is not overly promising. They've still done almost nothing to fix the reasons why they lost those 1.5-2 million subscribers in the first place.

 

No, they sold 2 million units, period. And only ever had a maximum of 1.7 million players, pre-F2P.

 

No one knows the exact number of subscribers lost between this point of over 500,000 but under a million and the two million new players since the introduction of F2P. Thus there never could have been a "[loss of] 1.5-2 million subscribers". They never had 2 million in the first place before they went F2P. If they lost 1.5 million, that would have placed them at 200,000, which is less than 500,000. That would be a direct contradiction of their own statements.

 

Those are the sources for my numbers, please state yours CosmicKat. I saw articles stating that SWTOR was in trouble, but ALL of them were almost a year old. The "newest" being August 2012.

 

Personally, I'm really sick and tired of the Chicken Little-like behavior going around.

Edited May 12, 2013 by Uldihaa

[ZahirS]

No, they sold 2 million units, period. And only ever had a maximum of 1.7 million players.

 

No one knows the exact number of subscribers lost between this point of over 500,000 but under a million and the two million new players since the introduction of F2P. Thus there never could have been a "[loss of] 1.5-2 million subscribers". They never had 2 million in the first place. If they lost 1.5 million, that would have placed them at 200,000, which is less than 500,000. That would be a direct contradiction of their own statements.

 

Those are the sources for my numbers, please state yours CosmicKat. I saw articles stating that SWTOR was in trouble, but ALL of them were almost a year old. The "newest" being August 2012.

 

Personally, I'm really sick and tired of the Chicken Little-like behavior going around.

 

There is a reason for this:

 

People didn't stick too much with F2P there was retetion of players but not as much as they expected Im sure of it.

 

People fear when there's ineptitude of EA or Bioware when making the necessary adjustments.