Star Wars: War of the Dream Teams Rules Clarification Thread

[Aurbere]

It's semantics Beni. You need a garrison to get bonuses (I said this earlier). Thus garrisons are almost required. I guess I'll just include that every planet has to have some troops (non-specified number minimum 100) garrisoned on a planet to control it.

 

I guess my point is that troops in garrisons can't be moved at all but get defensive advantages whereas a mobile garrison (I'll say these troops get stationed) can reinforce a battle or move to another planet and that is their advantage. A planet can have a combo of permanent and stationed garrison.

 

The way I see this working, I garrison 1,000 troops at Rhinnal and 1,000 troops at Ralltiir (permanently). I then have another 10,000 mobile stationed at Ralltiir. If someone attacks Rhinnal, I can send the 10,000 from Ralltiir to Rhinnal but not the garrisoned 1,000.

 

This sound good?

 

That's pretty good. Each controlled planet should have some form of defense, whether it is a full defense force, or a small garrison.

 

This should be up to each individual player, but we should set a minimum number of troops that must always protect a planet.

[Beniboybling]

That is exactly the proposed plot armor Aurbere...

Substitute logic for plot armour. They're will be situations were a commander dies in a winning battle, but they will be for good reason. We can't just restrict them because they may not (which is impossible)

[Beniboybling]

That's pretty good. Each controlled planet should have some form of defense, whether it is a full defense force, or a small garrison.

 

This should be up to each individual player, but we should set a minimum number of troops that must always protect a planet.

Garrisons' need to be specified though. That's the next operation, everyone needs to specify their garrisons. These can be as much or as little as you want, can be from any unit and can vary from planet to planet.

[Aurbere]

That is exactly the proposed plot armor Aurbere...

 

Well, read on abit. I put forth two scenarios. One had Plo Koon focus-fired. The other had his troops back him up, and him deflect or dodge any blaster fire headed his way.

 

Which scenario is most likely to work?

 

But I am leaning towards Beni's side. A hero can die even if the battle is won. Notable example being Qui-Gon Jinn.

Edited May 15, 2013 by Aurbere

[Aurbere]

Garrisons' need to be specified though. That's the next operation, everyone needs to specify their garrisons. These can be as much or as little as you want, can be from any unit and can vary from planet to planet.

 

Yeah, that's basically what I said. It's up to each individual player. They have to decide which troops they want, and how many to place.

 

Then we need to worry about overall deployment of forces.

[Beniboybling]

Yeah, that's basically what I said. It's up to each individual player. They have to decide which troops they want, and how many to place.

 

Then we need to worry about overall deployment of forces.

Well that will happen in debate - all remaining forces before the debate will start will be based at either the military hub or the primary shipyards - depending on whether ground forces or naval forces.

 

NOTE: You don't actually have to have a shipyard to have a naval base. Like me.

 

I think I'd say concerning that that if you have a shipyard, you have to choose that planet as your naval base. If you have multiple shipyards you have to pick the biggest one and if you have none you have to pick your war factory.

 

Sound good?

[Aurbere]

Well that will happen in debate - all remaining forces before the debate will start will be based at either the military hub or the primary shipyards - depending on whether ground forces or naval forces.

 

NOTE: You don't actually have to have a shipyard to have a naval base. Like me.

 

I think I'd say concerning that that if you have a shipyard, you have to choose that planet as your naval base. If you have multiple shipyards you have to pick the biggest one and if you have none you have to pick your war factory.

 

Sound good?

 

Well, hang on. Are you saying that all forces (aside from garrisons) will start at the military hub and primary shipyard, and then moved to the other planets that are owned? IE. All my forces start off at Anaxes and Kuat, and I have to move them to each of my planets.

 

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding. It's getting late and I'm not thinking well.

[Beniboybling]

Well, hang on. Are you saying that all forces (aside from garrisons) will start at the military hub and primary shipyard, and then moved to the other planets that are owned? IE. All my forces start off at Anaxes and Kuat, and I have to move them to each of my planets.

 

Sorry if I'm misunderstanding. It's getting late and I'm not thinking well.

Yes, that's correct.

[Aurbere]

Yes, that's correct.

 

Hmm... I don't know about that. I would need to think on it more.

[Selenial]

Hmm... I don't know about that. I would need to think on it more.

 

I don't know, I'd like some type of Garrison at some locations, Mon Cala is too far from my other planets, fine under normal circumstances, but I can imagine someone getting there before me if they tried

[ZahirS]

I don't know, I'd like some type of Garrison at some locations, Mon Cala is too far from my other planets, fine under normal circumstances, but I can imagine someone getting there before me if they tried

 

How about a starting planet you are able to choose, if you are defeated in conquering you return to your planets. Like having a military hub having all your army or its on movement, garrisons of the Planet would depend if they are economic, military or intelligence or you can leave garrisons on the planet.

 

I like the idea of all units we have a list for every planet we own, like:

 

Home Planet starts ALL UNITS

Military Hub and economic has ALL UNITS

 

then you start to move.

Edited May 16, 2013 by ZahirS

[tunewalker]

Well, read on abit. I put forth two scenarios. One had Plo Koon focus-fired. The other had his troops back him up, and him deflect or dodge any blaster fire headed his way.

 

Which scenario is most likely to work?

 

But I am leaning towards Beni's side. A hero can die even if the battle is won. Notable example being Qui-Gon Jinn.

 

Qui-gon was killed by another champion darth maul it was the first amendment of the rule put forth.

 

here for you guys to read it again as all the problems with it are addressed in it.

 

 

 

 

You can never lose any member of your command staff nor your Flagship or your Station in any battle in which you WIN.

 

First AMENDMANT you may still lose them in a fight in which you fight another players command staff (ex. champion vs champion) these will be decided in standard vs thread. Even facing another's command staff does not garentee a kill as it can end with 1 dieing or 1 escaping this will be decided by the council.

 

In a fight your command staff takes place in and you lose there is still a chance the command staff can escape but if you lose a fight in which your flagship or your station is present you lose them. I think this should be based on a die roll modified by the characters known ability for getting away and the availability of a way out (Ex. Flagship shuttle pod, personal starship) not sure how the die roll will be handled I am sure you council members can figure it out.

Edited May 16, 2013 by tunewalker

[bionamaster]

Are the rules decided yet?

[Aurbere]

Are the rules decided yet?

 

There's still the battle over the plot armor, and unit placement.

 

For the record, Beni, I disagree with your idea for unit placement. I can see where your coming from, but it leaves other worlds undefended, especially if you have separated worlds or worlds near the enemy. You can lose a world right away due to its lack of defenses.

 

I would much prefer it if each player got to devide their forces across their planets as they saw fit.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Aurbere

[bionamaster]

There's still the battle over the plot armor, and unit placement.

 

Where are we on those? How is plot armor being handled? Checking in for the first time today, so....

[StarSquirrel]

Alright, I've seen Tune's and Beni's proposals. While I support Tune over Beni, I can see Beni's issue with complexity.

 

I hereby propose this organized rule set (for Resupply only) based on a simplified hybrid of Beni and Tune's rules as well as my own positions on the matter. (reposted)

 

 

Section 1 - Resupply

1.1 Basic Functions- Each turn, half of what a player began with (see This thread) is returned to the player. These forces spawn at their Military Hub (or Naval Base in the case of ships see 1.2). Using the movement rules listed here troops may be deployed at the player's discretion.

-------1.1.2 Forces Cap- Maximum troop caps (including starting planets):

Your forces have a maximum cap based on the number of planets you have.

For control of 3 planets allows you to have a maximum double your starting value.

Control of 6 planets allows you to have a maximum triple your starting value.

Control of 12 planets allows you to have a maximum of quadruple your starting value.

Control of 24 planets allows you to have a maximum of quintuple your starting value.

No maximum bonus beyond controlling 24 planets

1.2 Ships-Ships may spawn at a shipyard (or Naval Base) controlled by the player.

1.3 Suppliers- If a supplier is outside one turn reach of the Military Hub and on a planet controlled by the player, spawned troops may be sent to the supplier instead. ----Suspended

-------1.3.2 Sub-rule- Ships may only spawn to supplier if the player controls both the space and the ground.----Suspended

1.4 Garrisons- A player's garrison is mandatory. When they place a garrison on a planet, it is permanent. This garrison is bolstered by local support and fortification as well as any temporary troops stationed all of which contribute to the defender's advantage.

1.5 Representative A Representative on the ground of a blockaded planet has the ability to rally troops to their cause. Ground resupply becomes unhindered.

 

Section 2 - Combat

(as relating to Resupply)

2.1 Ground Spawned Reinforcements- If an enemy controls the space over a planet, no reinforcements can reach the surface

2.2 Naval Spawned Reinforcements- If an enemy controls the ground, naval reinforcements may still spawn if the player controls the shipyards per 1.2 and 1.3/1.3.2

-------2.2.2 Sub-rule- These ship must spawn at the main shipyard.

2.3 Supplier- Rule 2.1 does not apply for grounds troops if the supplier is present on the surface. ----Suspended

 

Section 3 - Conquest

(as relating to Resupply)

3.1 Basic Functions- Upon conquering an opponent's world, the player gains full use of all facilities (Factories, Population, Academies, Economy) to add to their forces resupply at half the value originally listed here

3.2 Shipyards- Captured Shipyards do not require capture of the ground to be benefited from. They do however follow rules 1.2 and 1.3/1.3.2

 

Reposted so ya'll don't have to dig for it

 

*Troop placement is still being decided

 

*rules written in darker color text to allow for easier reading.

 

I'd like your official votes on this proposed Reupply/conquest/garrison rule-set. Aurbere and Sel I need your votes on sections 1.3 and 2.3 (combined) in particular.

 

1.3 and 2.3 suspended. They may, however be used (supported by cannon fact) to support the argument of a supplier's actions in a case by case basis at the sole discretion of the council.

Edited May 16, 2013 by StarSquirrel

[Beniboybling]

I don't know, I'd like some type of Garrison at some locations, Mon Cala is too far from my other planets, fine under normal circumstances, but I can imagine someone getting there before me if they tried

Note that every planet has a garrison, which you decide upon (and remains fixed) before the battle starts - this can differ from planet to planet.

 

So none of your planets will ever be completely undefended - however the majority of your force will be intially stationed at your military hub or naval hub. I say initially because this is simple were your initial forces start off, and where your reinforcements spawn. On your turn you are free to distribute has you wish.

 

But anyway, two things on the agenda:

 

Garrisons - we need everyone to take their unit list, take their planet list and decide on their garrisons i.e. how much of your total force is going to be stationed on each planet. Note this does not (and should not) be your entire force and can differ from planet to planet. I'd suggest each of your planets has a small garrison with units that work well with your natural defenses. Note that these will be fixed and unchangeable, however when new planet's are captured and you specify a new garrison for those specific planets. Any such updates should be posted here.

 

Command staff placement - we need everyone to specify the initial locations of their command staff. All members of your staff are movable, however before the debate begins you must specify what their 'starting point' will be e.g. Darth Jadus will start aboard the Emperor's Space Station within The Redoubt. Also note that morale leaders can be used in battle to boost morale and representatives give (yet to be specified) unit pop boosts or something similar. Any such updates should be posted here.

 

This may seem like I'm just steamrolling this through without consultation but I'm just trying to minimize deliberation and maximize productivity. Nonetheless if you have any objections just say, otherwise I think we should go through with this.

 

P.S. I'd also suggest, that once all the info has been collected, it is transferred to the new 'command' thread in the OP.

Edited May 16, 2013 by Beniboybling

[Beniboybling]

There's still the battle over the plot armor, and unit placement.

 

For the record, Beni, I disagree with your idea for unit placement. I can see where your coming from, but it leaves other worlds undefended, especially if you have separated worlds or worlds near the enemy. You can lose a world right away due to its lack of defenses.

 

I would much prefer it if each player got to devide their forces across their planets as they saw fit.

I think you've misinterpreted what I'm saying. See the above post. Basically garrisons can be as small and as large as you which and the remainder of your force is only initially collected at your military and navy hub. Once its your move you are free to redistribute them as you which.

 

All I'm making sure if that we don't have multiple resupply points with forces spawning here there and everywhere which is unnecessarily complex and means someone is going to be out of the debate entirely and just running the numbers. Which sucks.

 

Either way my proposal doesn't contradict, but actually supports, what your saying.

[Aurbere]

OK, Beni, I was misinterpreting what your intentions were.

 

This is going to get pretty complicated eventually, but I think I'm back on track. However, there is one thing. When we are specifying garrisons, we may need to wait for Rayla. She's unavailable until about Wednesday, so we would have to wait for her, or I would have to sort her garrisons.

 

Which wouldn't be easy to do.

[Beniboybling]

OK, Beni, I was misinterpreting what your intentions were.

 

This is going to get pretty complicated eventually, but I think I'm back on track. However, there is one thing. When we are specifying garrisons, we may need to wait for Rayla. She's unavailable until about Wednesday, so we would have to wait for her, or I would have to sort her garrisons.

 

Which wouldn't be easy to do.

Well we don't have to wait in the sense that people can start submitting garrisons now. However I'd say that this battle should begin Wednesday. If anyone thinks we'll be ready before then then they are kidding themselves.

 

And regarding the rules:

 

1.1 Agreed. But I think you just need to be a bit more specific and put the word ‘ground forces’ in there, because only they spawn at the military hub. Or otherwise state that this rule applies to ships too (it does doesn’t it?) but they spawn at the shipyard, see 1.2 for details etc.

 

1.1.2 Agreed.

 

1.2. Agreed.

 

1.3 Confused. What is the purpose of this? Won’t spawned troops just spawn an the military hub regardless of the suppliers location? This also seems illogical, the supplier is not a human factory and cannot just spawn forces from wherever they are. Which I think should remain fixed at the economic hub. Not sure if this means that the supplier has to be close to the military hub and shipyard for you to receive your resupplies...

 

1.4 Agreed. But not sure why reinforcements can’t get defensive advantages. It just seems perverse to ban this from any debate and in reality it would not work like that. It also leads to a disjointed debate e.g. if I made the point that my reinforcements attacked the enemy under the cover of perpetual snow storms, would we suddenly pretend the snow storms didn’t exist? And if I made the argument that my reinforcements retreat to a fortress would we pretend this fortress doesn’t exist? Or say that for some reason the garrisoned forces block them from entry? It also means we have to make a physical distinction between garrisoned forces and reinforcements. Does this mean in a full battle garrisons will not be able to participate? Given the fact that it would lead to some parallel universe being created, one where the fortress and snow storms exist, and one where they do not. I think you can see why this would be chaotic.

 

2.1 Agreed.

2.2. Agreed.

2.3 Disagree on the basis this does not make sense. In reality the supplier is incapable of making some sort of black hole in which reinforcements can jump through and get to the planet. The fact remains that the planet is blockaded and no supplies can get through – this is essentially the purpose of a blockade.

 

3.1 Agreed.

3.2 Agreed.

3.3 Not sure on this one. I mean yeah OP and all but if you’ve got 24 planets. You’ve got 24 planets – in reality there is nothing stopping you from exploiting their resources to full potential.

[tunewalker]

Note that every planet has a garrison, which you decide upon (and remains fixed) before the battle starts - this can differ from planet to planet.

 

So none of your planets will ever be completely undefended - however the majority of your force will be intially stationed at your military hub or naval hub. I say initially because this is simple were your initial forces start off, and where your reinforcements spawn. On your turn you are free to distribute has you wish.

 

But anyway, two things on the agenda:

 

Garrisons - we need everyone to take their unit list, take their planet list and decide on their garrisons i.e. how much of your total force is going to be stationed on each planet. Note this does not (and should not) be your entire force and can differ from planet to planet. I'd suggest each of your planets has a small garrison with units that work well with your natural defenses. Note that these will be fixed and unchangeable, however when new planet's are captured and you specify a new garrison for those specific planets. Any such updates should be posted here.

 

Command staff placement - we need everyone to specify the initial locations of their command staff. I suggest that the Morale Leader and Representative have a fixed position at your govt hub. Your supplier should have a fixed position at your economic hub. Your Military Commander, Champion, Assassin however can be moved about as you please - however before the debate begins you must specify what their 'starting point' will be e.g. Darth Jadus will start aboard the Emperor's Space Station within The Redoubt. Any such updates should be posted here.

 

This may seem like I'm just steamrolling this through without consultation but I'm just trying to minimize deliberation and maximize productivity. Nonetheless if you have any objections just say, otherwise I think we should go through with this.

 

P.S. I'd also suggest, that once all the info has been collected, it is transferred to the new 'command' thread in the OP.

 

I say no fixed locations for command staff they aren't planets they can move.

[tunewalker]

Well we don't have to wait in the sense that people can start submitting garrisons now. However I'd say that this battle should begin Wednesday. If anyone thinks we'll be ready before then then they are kidding themselves.

 

And regarding the rules:

 

1.1 Agreed. But I think you just need to be a bit more specific and put the word ‘ground forces’ in there, because only they spawn at the military hub. Or otherwise state that this rule applies to ships too (it does doesn’t it?) but they spawn at the shipyard, see 1.2 for details etc.

 

1.1.2 Agreed.

 

1.2. Agreed.

 

1.3 Confused. What is the purpose of this? Won’t spawned troops just spawn an the military hub regardless of the suppliers location? This also seems illogical, the supplier is not a human factory and cannot just spawn forces from wherever they are. Which I think should remain fixed at the economic hub. Not sure if this means that the supplier has to be close to the military hub and shipyard for you to receive your resupplies...

 

1.4 Agreed. But not sure why reinforcements can’t get defensive advantages. It just seems perverse to ban this from any debate and in reality it would not work like that. It also leads to a disjointed debate e.g. if I made the point that my reinforcements attacked the enemy under the cover of perpetual snow storms, would we suddenly pretend the snow storms didn’t exist? And if I made the argument that my reinforcements retreat to a fortress would we pretend this fortress doesn’t exist? Or say that for some reason the garrisoned forces block them from entry? It also means we have to make a physical distinction between garrisoned forces and reinforcements. Does this mean in a full battle garrisons will not be able to participate? Given the fact that it would lead to some parallel universe being created, one where the fortress and snow storms exist, and one where they do not. I think you can see why this would be chaotic.

 

2.1 Agreed.

2.2. Agreed.

2.3 Disagree on the basis this does not make sense. In reality the supplier is incapable of making some sort of black hole in which reinforcements can jump through and get to the planet. The fact remains that the planet is blockaded and no supplies can get through – this is essentially the purpose of a blockade.

 

3.1 Agreed.

3.2 Agreed.

3.3 Not sure on this one. I mean yeah OP and all but if you’ve got 24 planets. You’ve got 24 planets – in reality there is nothing stopping you from exploiting their resources to full potential.

 

OK beni here this is how you can get ground troops with a supplier on the ground (I actually suggest that this be increase to also be done by your representative) all of our suppliers have underworld contacts and spies its called smuggling so as long as your supplier is their they will have the good smuggled to them if they cant get them normally so they can get ground troops at location do to underworld contacts..

 

 

 

 

Again star I suggest this power be extended to the representative as s/he draws forces from the actual planet and convices the populace to take up arms.

[Beniboybling]

I say no fixed locations for command staff they aren't planets they can move.

Given some thought perhaps no fixed locations. On the basis that in a real-life scenario if say your supplier was under threat, they would retreat. E.g. during the Clone Wars the Sep Council (which are basically a whole bunch of suppliers) were moved about a lot - effectively fleeing from the Republic. I'll edit that.

[Beniboybling]

OK beni here this is how you can get ground troops with a supplier on the ground (I actually suggest that this be increase to also be done by your representative) all of our suppliers have underworld contacts and spies its called smuggling so as long as your supplier is their they will have the good smuggled to them if they cant get them normally so they can get ground troops at location do to underworld contacts..

 

 

 

 

Again star I suggest this power be extended to the representative as s/he draws forces from the actual planet and convices the populace to take up arms.

Wat Tambor I'll have you know is a perfectly reputable individual who always remains within the bounds of the law, he has no such 'underworld connections' that you refer to. Bah!

 

No but seriously, I'd question whether Wat Tambor would have any underworld connections. And if he does he wouldn't need to be present to set up any kind of deal. So while I am not against supplies being smuggled through blockades etc. I don't think a specific rule should be put in place to accommodate for this. It should be left to the debate thread as all scenarios and different and therefore different rules apply.

 

E.g. if I blockaded one of Warren's planets it would be feasible for her to argue that she could have G0-T0 hire some smugglers and smuggler supplies in. In this case resupply would be re-initiated. However if I had some sort of counter to such an action this wouldn't be allowed. I.e. a certain force designed to counter blockade running.

 

And in either situation, the supplier does not have to be present.

 

I think some sort of bonus should be given the representatives and morale leaders however, as currently they are effectively useless. I think the Morale Leader should be usuable as an argument in battle (if present) but universal rule should be put in place as different scenarios mean different outcomes. And for the representative, yes perhaps they should give a bonus for whatever planet they are present on - some sort of general infantry/ship bonus perhaps.

[tunewalker]

Wat Tambor I'll have you know is a perfectly reputable individual who always remains within the bounds of the law, he has no such 'underworld connections' that you refer to. Bah!

 

No but seriously, I'd question whether Wat Tambor would have any underworld connections. And if he does he wouldn't need to be present to set up any kind of deal. So while I am not against supplies being smuggled through blockades etc. I don't think a specific rule should be put in place to accommodate for this. It should be left to the debate thread as all scenarios and different and therefore different rules apply.

 

E.g. if I blockaded one of Warren's planets it would be feasible for her to argue that she could have G0-T0 hire some smugglers and smuggler supplies in. In this case resupply would be re-initiated. However if I had some sort of counter to such an action this wouldn't be allowed. I.e. a certain force designed to counter blockade running.

 

And in either situation, the supplier does not have to be present.

 

I think some sort of bonus should be given the representatives and morale leaders however, as currently they are effectively useless. I think the Morale Leader should be usuable as an argument in battle (if present) but universal rule should be put in place as different scenarios mean different outcomes. And for the representative, yes perhaps they should give a bonus for whatever planet they are present on - some sort of general infantry/ship bonus perhaps.

 

I can see this so I am seeing the suggestion would be change the supplier rule to a rep rule and we will just have to debate whether or not our supplier can get stuff in..... (I just don't know how much stuff I want to have to debate as that's when it gets complicated by ruling for it I feel that it lessens the needs for debates and thus moves the battle along faster).

Edited May 16, 2013 by tunewalker