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Increase deception dps

seankinel

By seankinel
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seankinel

seankinel

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A lot of people refuse to take an assassin to 55 hm ops simple because they have the lowest dps of all . this is just stupid (the people but also the dps). Need to increase assassin dps, either just increase abilitiy damage or give something to boost burst dps, like the maras got 30% alacritiy.
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Griad

Griad

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Deception DPS takes a little getting used to and besides the burst is amazing in some fights your will top the dps meter if doing it right.

 

However its true u wont be able to sustain as easy as a marauder or PT, but not having a deception because they claim its low dps is plain wrong

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Elyx

Elyx

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Posted (edited)
A lot of people refuse to take an assassin to 55 hm ops simple because they have the lowest dps of all . this is just stupid (the people but also the dps). Need to increase assassin dps, either just increase abilitiy damage or give something to boost burst dps, like the maras got 30% alacritiy.

 

I feel sorry for ya sean, but this is a classic example of how ignorance STILL exists in MMO's, and unfortunately propogates itself. And it sounds like you are dealing with the result.

 

madness/balance has some underlying issues that hopefully Bio will see and deal with (or make it so we can see how to really deal with the spec from a DPS perspective).

 

Deception/Infiltration is quite good on the meters...it just isn't the best. but all the whining from those who watched their favorite spec changes drastically (madness) convinced the ignoramuses that the entire CLASS is subpar, when in reality its a specific AC of the class, combined with drastic changes to it's mechanics, that need a look at. the rest the class is fine. Deception and Darkness are doing great atm. And honestly, I still prefer Balance/Madness as a solo spec.

 

But it's OK...I've played MMO"s for years and years...Im used to it. Ignorance will always exists. move those players out of your list and move on. play what you enjoy, give solid (a.k.a based on data and information) feedback to the dev's, and enjoy your game.

Edited by Elyx
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Aetrus

Aetrus

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Yeah IDK, I parsed 2141.8 over 3 minutes in my PvP gear w/o adrenals (full Partisan, 1 Conqueror Relic, Conqueror mainhand) simply because I was curious how viable it would be to do rateds with. If I was in 69s or 72s I can only imagine the huge increase I'd see. I think it'd be nice to see Maul crit more often, but besides that I'm fine with Deception DPS.
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PerKIA

PerKIA

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I Have been playibg a deception assassin since start, now i also got a PT pyro, leathality Sniper and a few more.

 

Deception/Infiltration is quite good on the meters...it just isn't the best.

 

If you think Assassin has the lowest DPS then you are quite simply playing it wrong.

 

I think it'd be nice to see Maul crit more often, but besides that I'm fine with Deception DPS.

 

I suggest you go to TORParser http://www.torparse.com/statistics/Scum+and+Villainy and read the statistics. Assassin are at the bottom of the list of AC dps. Assassin (and operatives) are far behind in dps on almost every boss fight there is, and it is not by a small amount.

 

The decrese in crit is, in my opinon, the major cause for this. but also how charges works for deception, the "new" discharge, and probaly also the way VS + shock works now. They arre all dps losses compared to how it was before 2.0.

 

As a deception, we got no real usefull/dps skills/abbilities to boost us, unlike the rest of the AC's in 2.0

Phase walk is a joke, "impose weaknes" and "Nerve wracking" is for pvp only and "Sith executioner", allthough is decent, just dosent cut it. Overall, deception assassins have been relocated to the bottom of the barrel, dps wise.

 

Utility wise, well, since it is supposed to be a "lonewolf" kind of class, its were its supposed to be. We have !mind trap" (only useable in stealth mode") Taunt (could be usefull) and ...Lacerate!!!! Thats it. Compare that to a sniper, PT, Marauder, Sorc and youll se that it is a "lonewolf" kind of character, that is, it has no utility to speak of.

 

As it is now, i have to ask myself before a raid, " can the other three dps compensate for the assassins lack of dps?" Thats the question I have to ask before putting a raid-team together. When it comes to SM, the other dps can usually compensate, but for a HM? I doubt it. As it stands now, I would not use my deception assassin in a 55th lvl HM operation. It wouldnt be fair to the other members in the team.

Edited by PerKIA
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a-n-i-k-i

a-n-i-k-i

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As it is now, i have to ask myself before a raid, " can the other three dps compensate for the assassins lack of dps?" Thats the question I have to ask before putting a raid-team together. When it comes to SM, the other dps can usually compensate, but for a HM? I doubt it. As it stands now, I would not use my deception assassin in a 55th lvl HM operation. It wouldnt be fair to the other members in the team.

 

Compensate, really ? :rolleyes:

 

We're maybe not overpowered, I'll agree, but we can do the job.

The actual difficulty is not high, we don't need 4 snipers to beat a boss.

(For future nightmares, it will be the same.)

 

We can discuss about potential dps issues with the class, even if we don't agree, but don't say that we can't play HM.

No really, that won't help us.

 

Here is my last 3 downs of Dread Master Styrak (actually my only 3 downs as our guild started the new op lately) :

 

All three with infiltration (deception) : (right now I don't have min-maxed gear ... )

 

1st down

2nd down

3rd down

 

I'm not alone to do that with this spec, possibly someone will break the 2500 this week.

And I don't think this is our limit ...

For other bosses, it's sometimes another story (deception) but it's NEVER an issue.

 

If you have 3 dps who need to compensate something, it's surely not the class itself.

Edited by a-n-i-k-i
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ElitehunterDS

ElitehunterDS

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As a deception, we got no real usefull/dps skills/abbilities to boost us, unlike the rest of the AC's in 2.0

Phase walk is a joke, "impose weaknes" and "Nerve wracking" is for pvp only and "Sith executioner", allthough is decent, just dosent cut it. Overall, deception assassins have been relocated to the bottom of the barrel, dps wise.

This is a bit weird because i see my numbers rank in the top 50 on Torparse. Currently the issue with Torparse is that most fights count AoE damage and its hard to compare if you dont know what to look at, Lacerate is not even worth using over your single target DPS.

 

Also have a look at http://www.torhead.com/ability/esLE9e6/electric-ambush if you dont understand how that increase your dps, your problem.

Edited by ElitehunterDS
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PerKIA

PerKIA

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Also have a look at http://www.torhead.com/ability/esLE9e6/electric-ambush if you dont understand how that increase your dps, your problem.

 

Im not a complete idiot, I do know what Electric Ambush and Wrecklessness are and how they work . Yes, it increases dps, just as much as it did before 2.0. only now you can get one an extra time a bit faster IF you leave combat with forcecloak. Otherwise, its more or less the same as before. And i would say that discharge worked better before 2.0.

 

We can discuss about potential dps issues with the class, even if we don't agree, but don't say that we can't play HM.

No really, that won't help us.

 

I think we see from somewhat differnet perspective. Im not saying that a skilled player cant do a HM with a deception assassin, because they can. I consider myself as being slightley above average in skill. A top skilled will be able to do S&V HM and NiM, i have no doubt about that. But even so, a top sklilled sniper/marauder will out dps a skilled assassin, theres a gap between them. And the lower the skill of the player is, the greater the gap will be. And when you come down to the level where i am, The gap between the different AC are to big. Before 2.0, in my experience, the gap was ok. Assassins were not at the top then either, but we were close enough.

 

I like playing my assassin and will continu to do so. And i will most likley run HM 55 with it, if the group is right.

But Assassins do need a dps boost (pve).

Edited by PerKIA
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a-n-i-k-i

a-n-i-k-i

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Before 2.0, deception was a bit out of Torparse, it's perhaps too soon, and we'll maybe disappear of all TOP50, again.

As I said months ago, I think that BW have to balance classes (PvE) for the most players possible and then I'll agree with you, deception players on Torparse aren't a good indication of the class/spec average potential.

From BioWare point of view :

Why rebalance a dps class that is not played a lot on PvE ? A vicious circle in fact and only BW knows the truth about the real amount of assassins/shadows playing PvE and their average dps comparing to others.

My point of view :

They're afraid to change something because they proved on PTS that "PvP rules the world" (and have the biggest trollers) and I'm afraid that a PvP nerf will come before having a PvE boost (yes, it's probably possible to do this at the same time ...).

 

We've never been overpowered (both specs), for PvE, it would be interesting to do something about this, to encourage marauders,snipers,... to reroll :D

 

But it's hard for me to believe that the majority of players will have problems doing the job on HM.

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Elracor

Elracor

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I suggest you go to TORParser http://www.torparse.com/statistics/Scum+and+Villainy and read the statistics. Assassin are at the bottom of the list of AC dps. Assassin (and operatives) are far behind in dps on almost every boss fight there is, and it is not by a small amount.

 

I'm probably not understanding that page, but I cant see how it distincts Deception Assassins from Darkness Assassins, and healing Ops from damage Ops, which you'd need to compare to the DPS-only classes?

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PerKIA

PerKIA

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If you click on the characters name youll get that characters "personal" parser. Then click on "damage delt" and you will se what attcks has been used. If Voltalic Slash is there, its a Deception assassin, if Deathfield is in there, its Madnass assassin. Edited by PerKIA
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Elracor

Elracor

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If you click on the characters name youll get that characters "personal" parser. Then click on "damage delt" and you will se what attcks has been used. If Voltalic Slash is there, its a Deception assassin, if Deathfield is in there, its Madnass assassin.

 

Hmm, I tried to take a look here:

http://www.torparse.com/statistics/Overall/Damage

As much as neither Shadows or Assassins are close to Sentinels and Marauders, I find it kinda disturbing that highest Shadow is shown to do 4800DPS while highest Assassin is 3700DPS.

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lordeldritch

lordeldritch

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Hmm, I tried to take a look here:

http://www.torparse.com/statistics/Overall/Damage

As much as neither Shadows or Assassins are close to Sentinels and Marauders, I find it kinda disturbing that highest Shadow is shown to do 4800DPS while highest Assassin is 3700DPS.

 

Overall DPS rankings list is very misleading, because it is basically filled with parses from fights with large burn window (e.g. G4-B3 Heavy Fabricator in KP) or fights with heavy aoe phases (e.g. Captain Grimyk in Cademimu).

 

When using Torparse, it is very important to understand the data you are trying to compare. As a rule of thumb:

 

1. Comparing classes from the same boss fight is better than comparing classes from different boss fights.

2. Certain fights will favour certain classes, taking into consideration movement, number of enemies, mechanics, burst window and even hitbox of the boss.

3. Shorter fights tend to produce higher parses than longer fights, due to the immediately application of adrenal, relic and cooldown.

4. Check if the parses have been edited!

5. Missing data - which other classes were also in that fight. If it is a HM FP, sometime you might not run with another dps that gives armor debuff or say, bloodthirst, so that will affect the parses as well.

 

 

Antiri - Dalborra

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Kayriel

Kayriel

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From all the parsers and all the threads of these forums on the Deception tree , there are alot more people that think the tree has seen some.... weird changes ( Nerve Wracking for comes being moved from Darkness to Deception comes to mind ).

As far as i can tell all the classes have received a substantial boost in damage , but somehow , the devs felt that a tree that relies heavily on crit does not need it anymore ( IMHO , they should rework Nerve Wracking , into a talent that gives a % crit chance increase ) and also , they thought that boosting shock damage by 30% with 2 stacks Voltage would be too powerful.

They should take another look at the deception tree , since at the moment we are parsing behind the rest of the dps classes and i am not talking about snipers or marauders , since those classes should be the top damage dealers always , im talking about sorcs , juggernauts , PTs and so on.

I made a thread about this a dps boost for the AC a while , back and i am still hoping that the devs will rethink their changes. Honestly if they would build a crit talent into the tree , along with the shock increase ( maybe if 30% is too much , make it 20% ) would bring sins on par with the rest of the classes.

P.S. Not even gonna go into a madness discution , since at the moment as far as i can tell , that spec is the "special" half brother of the Sorc tree.

Edited by Kayriel
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seankinel

seankinel

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If you think Assassin has the lowest DPS then you are quite simply playing it wrong.

 

LOL I have been playing since the game came out. I know the assassin inside and out as it has been my main from day 1. If you don't realize they have the lowest you don't know the assassin. go look at any dps site if your that uninformed.

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Jayshames

Jayshames

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BW have no idea how to split skill trees between PvP and PvE, until then there's always going to be a crap class in PvE and it's amazing in PvP or vice versa. That's unless they somehow miraculously manage to balance it perfectly.

 

Deception is one of the best DPS specs in PvP at the moment, but it's less than great in PvE. When BW finally learn how to give abilities different uses/damage etc in PvP from PvE versions, then and only then will classes be anywhere near balanced.

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ElitehunterDS

ElitehunterDS

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Quick question, when you force cloak doesnt dps meters like mox restart you dps counter for a fight..??

 

MoX maybe but it was never a great parser, Torparse is superior.

As for low dps, we dont have a spammable AoE that does decent damage, like lets say orbital strike, smash, etc.

Edited by ElitehunterDS
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reqnifoni

reqnifoni

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LOL I have been playing since the game came out. I know the assassin inside and out as it has been my main from day 1. If you don't realize they have the lowest you don't know the assassin. go look at any dps site if your that uninformed.

 

My main is an assassin as well and i realise my reply earlier wasn't exactly the most helpful (guess that's what you do on 2hrs sleep), I have been looking and i still dont believe it is lowest except on combat dummies and aoe intensive fights, If you want to link some parses that prove different that would be great. I do want to say however that of course Sniper/Mara's are going to be higher then us since they are dedicated DPS where as we have the option to off tank if needed, also my original point was that i dont believe that we have the LOWEST dps not saying a bit more sustained would not help us immensely.

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