Huttball Championships - Republic vs Empire

[Warren-Stride]

I think Satele (regardless of her age) is the Republic's secret weapon.

 

Satele, despite her dual-blade, is really the perfect example of a Sage. She uses the Force more than anything. In her acrobatics, in predicting the future, in pretty much everything. Let's not forget about her Force Push/Wave abilities, and how easily she pushed Malgus back and then held him in place.

 

So if Satele plays defense, we'll see plenty of Vaders/Revans/Malguses flying away from the goal line. Her abilities in the Force make her perfect for repelling any of the Sith and their attempts to reach the goal, seeing as she can easily push them back and stall for the other members of her team to show up and finish them off.

 

Satele is also a telepath, and though this may not work against the shielded minds of the Sith, Boba Fett will have no defense against her being able to read his every thought. And if the Sith are communicating with Boba, Satele, in turn, will know all the details of the Empire's attack plan/strategy.

 

And then there's her ability to block a lightsaber strike with her hand. That's just awesome.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[Wolfninjajedi]

I think Satele (regardless of her age) is the Republic's secret weapon.

 

Satele, despite her dual-blade, is really the perfect example of a Sage. She uses the Force more than anything. In her acrobatics, in predicting the future, in pretty much everything. Let's not forget about her Force Push/Wave abilities, and how easily she pushed Malgus back and then held him in place.

 

So if Satele plays defense, we'll see plenty of Vaders/Revans/Malguses flying away from the goal line. Her abilities in the Force make her perfect for repelling any of the Sith and their attempts to reach the goal, seeing as she can easily push them back and stall for the other members of her team to show up and finish them off.

 

Satele is also a telepath, and though this may not work against the shielded minds of the Sith, Boba Fett will have no defense against her being able to read his every thought. And if the Sith are communicating with Boba, Satele, in turn, will know all the details of the Empire's attack plan/strategy.

 

And then there's her ability to block a lightsaber strike with her hand. That's just awesome.

 

Except that was all before she pretty much stated, she was no longer the warrior she once was and her powers took a nosedive. Ok maybe not a nosedive, but to the point where she admitted that she was weaker then when she was before and only led now.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Warren-Stride]

Except that was all before she pretty much stated, she was no longer the warrior she once was and her powers took a nosedive. Ok maybe not a nosedive, but to the point where she admitted that she was weaker then when she was before and only led now.

 

Oh, really? That's interesting. OK 'optimal strength Satele' - whatever that is.

 

Oh and thanks for bringing that to light, that quote is very informative I was not aware that her power had waned.

 

Optimal strength. Which means, if anything, she's even stronger than she was in the Hope trailer.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[Wolfninjajedi]

Optimal strength.

 

Ah...ok guess I overlooked that small bit. Regardless though Satele won't be just throwing the Sith Lords around, or at least not all of them as they could resist.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Warren-Stride]

Ah...ok guess I overlooked that small bit. Regardless though Satele won't be just throwing the Sith Lords around, or at least not all of them as they could resist.

 

I have never ever seen anyone resist a Force Push. Ever.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[Wolfninjajedi]

I have never ever seen anyone resist a Force Push. Ever.

 

Force Push can be resisted.

 

A trained Force user could resist Force Push, presumably by generating an opposing pressure surge whose wavefront canceled out their opponent's attack.

 

A nice example of this is

 

 

That is kinda the only example I could find, but it can be resisted. If its Force generated, it can be Force resisted. Its just how its done and how powerful the other Force user is.

 

Oh wait another example Anakin vs Obi-Wan in their duel, they were resisting their Force Push while trying to Force Push the other.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?feature=player_detailpage&v=pSwy412nttI#t=105s

Edited May 7, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Warren-Stride]

Force Push can be resisted.

 

A nice example of this is

 

 

That is kinda the only example I could find, but it can be resisted. If its Force generated, it can be Force resisted. Its just how its done and how powerful the other Force user is.

 

 

1:45

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSwy412nttI

 

That is the only example I have of how a Force Push can be negated. And both have to do it at the exact same time and be completely prepared for the other's attack. Notice also the continued effort it takes to maintain each side of the resist. It would be impossible for the Sith to run with the ball while resisting such a Force Push, and almost certainly one that is stronger than theirs anyways. And even if they could resist it like this, it still stalls them and when the explosion eventually happens it will still blast them back.

 

A trained Force user could resist Force Push, presumably by generating an opposing pressure surge whose wavefront canceled out their opponent's attack. The opponent usually responded by ramping up the pressure to compensate for the increased resistance. - Wookieepedia

 

I'm not sure how legit that video game is, but Wookieepedia shows the Obi-wan/Anakin duel is the way a Force Push can be resisted.

 

However, if you don't buy that, Satele will undoubtedly have the stronger will.

Edited May 7, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[Wolfninjajedi]

1:45

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=pSwy412nttI

 

That is the only example I have of how a Force Push can be negated. And both have to do it at the exact same time and be completely prepared for the other's attack. Notice also the continued effort it takes to maintain each side of the resist. It would be impossible for the Sith to run with the ball while resisting such a Force Push, and almost certainly one that is stronger than theirs anyways. And even if they could resist it like this, it still stalls them and when the explosion eventually happens it will still blast them back.

 

 

 

I'm not sure how legit that video game is, but Wookieepedia shows the Obi-wan/Anakin duel is the way a Force Push can be resisted.

 

However, if you don't buy that, Satele will undoubtedly have the stronger will.

 

Who says that is the only way to resist a Force Push? As for Satele having the stronger will?....Right, no that falls to Vader who has the ridiculous will and complete mastery of TK.

[LadyKulvax]

Ah...ok guess I overlooked that small bit. Regardless though Satele won't be just throwing the Sith Lords around, or at least not all of them as they could resist.

 

What about defeating Mekhis after having slaughtered a group of Sith Warriors and as a grand master destroying hundreds of hex droids with the force? Satele is a lot more powerful than most here are giving her credit for.

[Wolfninjajedi]

What about defeating Mekhis after having slaughtered a group of Sith Warriors and as a grand master destroying hundreds of hex droids with the force? Satele is a lot more powerful than most here are giving her credit for.

 

So...what experience or power does Mekhis have? Destroying droids is nice but is there anything else she has done as Grand Master?

Edited May 7, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Warren-Stride]

Who says that is the only way to resist a Force Push? As for Satele having the stronger will?....Right, no that falls to Vader who has the ridiculous will and complete mastery of TK.

 

I don't know why this is even a question seeing as Vader has never shown any other way of resisting a Force Push. Nor have any of the other Sith (see: Malgus). Even if there are other ways, obviously these Sith do not know them, or they would have used them.

 

As I said, Vader will not be locked in a stand-still with Satele. And if he is, that's even better. More likely, he will be attempting to run with the ball, caught unprepared to counter Satele's Force Push, and go flying.

 

Vader's will won't save him from being blasted off his feet. That doesn't make any sense.

[Wolfninjajedi]

I don't know why this is even a question seeing as Vader has never shown any other way of resisting a Force Push. Nor have any of the other Sith (see: Malgus). Even if there are other ways, obviously these Sith do not know them, or they would have used them.

 

As I said, Vader will not be locked in a stand-still with Satele. And if he is, that's even better. More likely, he will be attempting to run with the ball, caught unprepared to counter Satele's Force Push, and go flying.

 

Vader's will won't save him from being blasted off his feet. That doesn't make any sense.

 

Not saying he wouldn't be blasted off his feat, what I am saying is that Force Push can be resisted if noted.

[Aurbere]

What about defeating Mekhis after having slaughtered a group of Sith Warriors and as a grand master destroying hundreds of hex droids with the force? Satele is a lot more powerful than most here are giving her credit for.

 

I concur. Even if we only used 'Hope' as an example, her telekinetic feats are amazing. And she used tutaminis to block a lightsaber with her bare hands.

[LadyKulvax]

So...what experience or power does Mekhis have? Destroying droids is nice but is there anything else she has done as Grand Master?

 

She's very old and equally as powerful in the dark side, she was basically described as the Darth Nyriss of her day by Sean Williams.

 

Also hex droids aren't regular droids, all the other Sith and Jedi had extreme difficulty fighting them.

 

Plus Satele was much like Yoda, he rarely went on actual missions and instead trained students at the temple.

[LadyKulvax]

I concur. Even if we only used 'Hope' as an example, her telekinetic feats are amazing. And she used tutaminis to block a lightsaber with her bare hands.

 

Even more so when the book describes that she didn't just plow him through the mountain, she crumbled the entire thing ontop of him.

[Wolfninjajedi]

She's very old and equally as powerful in the dark side, she was basically described as the Darth Nyriss of her day by Sean Williams.

 

Also hex droids aren't regular droids, all the other Sith and Jedi had extreme difficulty fighting them.

 

Plus Satele was much like Yoda, he rarely went on actual missions and instead trained students at the temple.

 

So...did she show anything to showcase her power? I mean being described as powerful is nice, but there has to be something there to back it up.

 

Yes but Yoda has shown feats in combat and the like moreso. Also the cumbling the mountain ontop of Malgus is nice, I ain't saying that Satele isn't powerful but she isn't as well detailed in showings. Of course neither is really Malgus or Revan.

 

But then this whole Huttball thing is throwing me off, I keep forgetting about the ball. So with that I am gonna remove myself from this thread again.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[Aurbere]

Even more so when the book describes that she didn't just plow him through the mountain, she crumbled the entire thing ontop of him.

 

That's the impression I had gotten from the trailer as well. She destroyed that mountain.

[tunewalker]

first on the whole resisting force push thing

I know its not cannon but 4:50 as far as I can tell a force push is really just a powerful wave of energy any one that can center themselves in the force to be largely unmovable can resist. 2 it doesn't matter and here is why basic power speed and tactical advantages very basic.

 

 

Power advantage minor goes to the empire as many of the empire have defeated or can defeat much of the republic meaning the empire has soft counters for most of the republic team but in the case of Obi-wan it would really require vader to take him down as I don't see any one else powerful enough to do this and even then it would take time meaning vader is the only soft counter for obi-wan and obi-wan is a soft counter for most of the rest of the team. every one else on the pub team can only really be soft countered

 

Speed advantage minor goes to pub team as sateele has shown better acrobatic and speed feats every one on this field and Surik is also on par with Vader and Revan for speed and could likely outpace the other members of the empire

 

Tactical advantage... none While the empire is full of great tactical minds they have one inherent weakness..... to many cooks in the kitchen all of these guys are leaders not really the following type boba is a bit of a lone wolf Vader is the leader of the team and as such isn't likely to listen to any one else especially since they aren't more powerful then him and Revan was never good at doing what people told him to do especially this revan who went against the council. Malgus is really the only one that would listen to vader every one else is kind of going to do their own thing, unlike the rebel team with jace and sateele working in tandem a lot obi-wan being very obedient and even surik went back to the council for judgement they are all likely to work together. I give it to neither because while at the beginning of the match the pubs will have the advantage if vader gets control of his team I believe he is a better tactitian then sateele so it comes down to both having a tactical advantage at different times but over all the same...

 

Vs last game

 

Power advantage Major in favor of rebels having hard counters for 3/4 and multiple soft counters for the final 1

 

Minor speed advantage seps with 1 person out pacing the group and 1 more only have 2 people on the reb team able to keep up literally the same situation we find in this new one.

 

Minor tactical advantage Rebs while both teams were great conventional tactics the seps had 4 arrogant people and 4 droids incapable of unconventional thought while the reb team had rhom who was extremely comfortable with the terrain type and R2 who could use the terrain or act as a decoy or distraction.

 

 

Rebels lost and they had more advantages then the empire does now and the exact same weakness this should be a slobber knocker for the Republic with the game ending in 1 to 6 or 0 to 6 in the republics favor.

[Warren-Stride]

I don't think using the last match as an example is very fair or unconstructive to the debate.

[Warren-Stride]

Satele is also a telepath, and though this may not work against the shielded minds of the Sith, Boba Fett will have no defense against her being able to read his every thought. And if the Sith are communicating with Boba, Satele, in turn, will know all the details of the Empire's attack plan/strategy.

 

Still really liking this argument. Is it legit?

[Wolfninjajedi]

Still really liking this argument. Is it legit?

 

Tbh it works both ways, as Vader can read minds too and also induce fear/twist minds.

Edited May 8, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[tunewalker]

I don't think using the last match as an example is very fair or unconstructive to the debate.

 

Who says I need to be fair pretty sure huttball encourages cheating lol. but in all seriousness I don't think any one argues that in a fight that the empire would win but only barely. they don't have anything that can take out Ben quickly and the republic has a minor speed advantage really allowing them to move the ball around and with how tough it would be to bring ben down they could hold the middle pretty well.

 

 

 

Edit: on a side not most jedi and sith have some capacity for telepathy vader showed great skill in it as he was able to read his son's mind who was a force sensitive ith some defenses to it.

Edited May 8, 2013 by tunewalker

[Beniboybling]

That's the impression I had gotten from the trailer as well. She destroyed that mountain.

I didn't, in fact I was quite surpised when I read on her Wookie page: Shan was skilled with the use of telekinesis, and her strength with such abilities even as a Jedi Knight was enough for her to bring down an entire mountain on top of Darth Malgus during their battle.

 

Satele did not drop a mountain on Malgus' head, this Wookiee page is making a colossal exaggeration. She blasted him into a cliff face of which the impact caused it to crumble.

The damage isn't even that significant, much of the cliff face remains unscathed. No mountains were destroyed in the making of his trailer.

 

Concerning Force push: I think it can be resisted in some shape or form. Indeed this makes the most sense as it is essentially a blast of energy which Force shields or something to that effect that negate. Nonetheless Satele Shan is powerful and will at least be able to push Vader back, though not take him off his feet.

 

Concerning mind tricks: 'Do not use mind tricks! Force users cannot use mind tricks of any kind on their opponents.' Sorry about that.

[Wolfninjajedi]

 

Concerning mind tricks: 'Do not use mind tricks! Force users cannot use mind tricks of any kind on their opponents.' Sorry about that.

 

Is that excluding telepathy and telepathy based things or just mind trick, or is it excluding mind trick but not the other forms of mind powers?

Edited May 8, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[tunewalker]

Is that excluding telepathy and telepathy based things or just mind trick, or is it excluding mind trick but not the other forms of mind powers?

 

I think by bringing it up he is meaning that telepathy isn't usable as while it doesn't alter the mind it does use the opponents mind against them but this is my interpretation of what he is saying I don't think it matters though as both teams can do this so doesn't really give any one an edge I am just curious as to how the empire might be able to win they don't have a large enough power advantage nor do they have any kind of tactical advantage to overcome the speed advantage the republic has.