izeil Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Err not really. As someone who bounces between Preferred and Subscriber, I mainly sub cause the crafting is god aweful as preferred. But it might not be necessary to ditch the credit cap since there's the escrow things. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinisa Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 crafting is awfull but bearable escrow is not you cant buy anything Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izeil Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Yeah you can if you get those escrow things that dump 50/150/600k into your inventory. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinisa Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 sure would be cool to use credits for game time Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMcM-T Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 Who is your target market? F2P players who can't hold enough cash to buy, or preferred who probably don't play regularly enough to earn the cash to buy? Or super rich players who have spent all their dollars on Cartel packs and want to save a dime on sub fees? Who profits? Cause if its not EA then why would they add a feature that would potentially damage their margins. As already mentioned, Cartel Packs already give an efficient and effective way for those with too much real money to effectively print unlimited amounts of in game currency. The reason I can think of for even having this idea is you've got 100 Mill in the bank and nothing to spend it on. I'm sure there is a more balanced and effective way of dealing with the in game economy and hyper-inflation. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izeil Posted November 24, 2014 Share Posted November 24, 2014 It's anyone with more time to spend than money. As for the profit for EA, that's where the higher than sub costs come into it. I guarantee there's a bigger market for these than for hypercrates. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Sinisa Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 EA is the worst thing that could happen to Bioware and Star Wars. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyVix Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I could see gold sellers buying a bunch of these to convert F2P accounts into subscription accounts without transfer limits. No thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Who is your target market? F2P players who can't hold enough cash to buy, or preferred who probably don't play regularly enough to earn the cash to buy? Or super rich players who have spent all their dollars on Cartel packs and want to save a dime on sub fees? Who profits? Cause if its not EA then why would they add a feature that would potentially damage their margins. Really? You're asking who profits? Hmm, lets see... how about... I don't know... EA! Same amount of sub time is sold, same amount is consumed... What does EA care who actually pays for it? Sheesh, some people can't put 1 + 2 = 3 together. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izeil Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Really? You're asking who profits? Hmm, lets see... how about... I don't know... EA! Same amount of sub time is sold, same amount is consumed... What does EA care who actually pays for it? Sheesh, some people can't put 1 + 2 = 3 together. Exactly. Actually they would make more per sub from this than traditional methods if it's priced higher. As for fraud, doesn't seem to be much of a problem in any game I know of that uses this kind of item. I know in EQ2 there's a delay while they check for each purchase with the bank to see if it's legit or someone with a stolen credit card. More of a nuissance for them which now that I'm thinking about it is probably the main reason for the increased cost. Here's a question for all you folks against it. If you say you're interested in supporting the development of this game, why would you not be interested in something that brings in more money from virutal item sales that also has the added benefit of giving you more subscribers to group with? You have no problems with people who sub from a card and I know EA gets less money from cards than from credit/debit card based subscriptions so what's the big deal with this? The source of a sub is irrelevant in the end. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyVix Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Here's a question for all you folks against it. If you say you're interested in supporting the development of this game, why would you not be interested in something that brings in more money from virutal item sales that also has the added benefit of giving you more subscribers to group with? You have no problems with people who sub from a card and I know EA gets less money from cards than from credit/debit card based subscriptions so what's the big deal with this? The source of a sub is irrelevant in the end. The only people that could possibly afford this number of credits would be the existing subscribers. F2P and preferred can't because of their credit caps. What you'd effectively be doing is allowing paying customers to quit paying via cash, and pay via in-game virtual currency. Bioware wouldn't be making any more money, they'd be making less money. As far as transaction fees associated with credit card payments, it's all irrelevant since the initial item purchase would still need to be made with a credit card. The fees absorbed by Bioware wouldn't change. (and even if they did change, the cost is insignificant when considering their processing volume) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Heat-Wave Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 The only people that could possibly afford this number of credits would be the existing subscribers. F2P and preferred can't because of their credit caps. What you'd effectively be doing is allowing paying customers to quit paying via cash, and pay via in-game virtual currency. Bioware wouldn't be making any more money, they'd be making less money. No... no they wouldn't be making less money... they would be making the same money, perhaps even more. This should be obvious, but since it seems that even the obvious requires it, I'll explain it: New player to the game wants a jumpstart on credits, so he/she goes and buys a 6 month sub token to be sold in the game. New player pays $80 for said token (about the current cost of a 6 month sub). Old player (that's me), currently subs in the game, paying said $80 for a sub. I have many millions and millions of credits in the game. I go and pay some of them to New player (how many will vary and doesn't really matter since it is made up money) for the 6 month sub token. Now I have a 6 month sub extension, that EA was paid $80 for. What does EA care if the $80 was paid to them from Old player or New player? One 6 month sub, paid for with $80 of real money. Used by a single person. ------------------ Now how could this make EA more money? I might well let my sub lapse for awhile once 3.0 is consumed, after all, I've done everything in the game over and over, there are others to play. But if I can keep my sub up using in game credits while making the life of newer players easier, I may be more likely to stick around. So New player has an easier time due to having credits, so they stay and keep subbing, I can sub using my credits and thus stay around. EA gets 2 paid for subs, instead of maybe none or 1. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyVix Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 No... no they wouldn't be making less money... they would be making the same money, perhaps even more. This should be obvious, but since it seems that even the obvious requires it, I'll explain it: New player to the game wants a jumpstart on credits, so he/she goes and buys a 6 month sub token to be sold in the game. New player pays $80 for said token (about the current cost of a 6 month sub). Old player (that's me), currently subs in the game, paying said $80 for a sub. I have many millions and millions of credits in the game. I go and pay some of them to New player (how many will vary and doesn't really matter since it is made up money) for the 6 month sub token. Now I have a 6 month sub extension, that EA was paid $80 for. What does EA care if the $80 was paid to them from Old player or New player? One 6 month sub, paid for with $80 of real money. Used by a single person. ------------------ Now how could this make EA more money? I might well let my sub lapse for awhile once 3.0 is consumed, after all, I've done everything in the game over and over, there are others to play. But if I can keep my sub up using in game credits while making the life of newer players easier, I may be more likely to stick around. So New player has an easier time due to having credits, so they stay and keep subbing, I can sub using my credits and thus stay around. EA gets 2 paid for subs, instead of maybe none or 1. 1. If a new player needs credits, there are already mechanics in place to allow them to buy from the cartel market and sell for credits. Nothing changes. 2. With the aforementioned scenario, the new player would still need to subscribe in order to use those credits, so even with the current system, Bioware picks up a new subscriber. 3. For most players, (myself included) if I plan to leave the game to play something else, I don't buy game time and let it burn while I'm away. If anything I'd purchase the item, stash it in my storage, then lapse my subscription until my return. The amount of subscription time doesn't change, it just delays using it until a later date. 4. The most likely scenario would be a player selling this item, and it being bought/used by a veteran player with an inordinate number of credits. There is no new money. Bioware would simply be shuffling where the money comes from. There is no advantage to this scenario, and implementing such would, in my opinion, introduce more problems in dealing with gold sellers, etc. No thank you. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cidanel Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 Just saying that I disagree with your proposal to make a link between in-game credits and subscription and cartel market. It would only deepen the pay-to-win problem that the cartel market has already created. People who would invest real money would have even easier access to in game credits and through them to the gear. The big difference is that EVE and SWTOR are inherently different games. No matter how many resources you have in EVE, it is hard enough that you simply can't pay to win. A new player will die very, very quickly, or get scammed out of everything he/she just bought. SWTOR protects carebears, EVE does not. OP - I support your idea in theory, but PLEX only works in EVE because permanently losing equipment when you die as well as the fact that scamming is 100% legal is the counter to the pay-to-win mechanic. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AMcM-T Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 (edited) I had a reply all typed out. Then I thought better of it. /Sheesh Edited November 25, 2014 by AMcM-T Responding to trolls. Wised up. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyVix Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 If I were a gold seller and something like this were to be sold on the GTN, I would: 1. Create a F2P account; 2. Purchase GTN slots; 3. Sell vastly overpriced items on the GTN, i.e. the current GTN pricing "scam" 4. Unscrupulous players selling credits to the gold sellers "accidentally get scammed," buying the overpriced items and legitimately completing the in-game transfer of credits to the gold sellers. Buyer beware according to Bioware, right? 5. Surpassing the F2P credit cap due to GTN sales, all excess credits are sent to the gold sellers escrow to accumulate. 6. When the gold seller has enough accumulated credits, they use one of these "tokens" to upgrade to subscriber status and unlock all the funds previously held in escrow. 7. Credits are transferred and/or laundered to new dummy accounts and credit buyers utilizing steps 3 and 4 outlined above. Ultimately, a gold seller could do significant business in game while spending little/no real life money. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 The big difference is that EVE and SWTOR are inherently different games. No matter how many resources you have in EVE, it is hard enough that you simply can't pay to win. A new player will die very, very quickly, or get scammed out of everything he/she just bought. SWTOR protects carebears, EVE does not. OP - I support your idea in theory, but PLEX only works in EVE because permanently losing equipment when you die as well as the fact that scamming is 100% legal is the counter to the pay-to-win mechanic. EVE has a problem, IMHO... it is only a matter of time before someone loses enough stuff worth real world money that their solution is to find the other person in real life... and solve their problem that way... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 If I were a gold seller and something like this were to be sold on the GTN, I would: 1. Create a F2P account; 2. Purchase GTN slots; 3. Sell vastly overpriced items on the GTN, i.e. the current GTN pricing "scam" 4. Unscrupulous players selling credits to the gold sellers "accidentally get scammed," buying the overpriced items and legitimately completing the in-game transfer of credits to the gold sellers. Buyer beware according to Bioware, right? 5. Surpassing the F2P credit cap due to GTN sales, all excess credits are sent to the gold sellers escrow to accumulate. 6. When the gold seller has enough accumulated credits, they use one of these "tokens" to upgrade to subscriber status and unlock all the funds previously held in escrow. 7. Credits are transferred and/or laundered to new dummy accounts and credit buyers utilizing steps 3 and 4 outlined above. Ultimately, a gold seller could do significant business in game while spending little/no real life money. ^ All of the above is true, however from EA/Bioware's point of view, why would they care? They already don't seem to care about existing gold sellers, or they would be more active in getting rid of them. All the whining about "oh but how do you know", or "they just make new accounts" is a bunch of nonsense, they have to get the credits from somewhere, stash them somewhere, they need sub accounts to hold them, etc. If you put someone on that mission, how many credits would you have to seize before you made the whole thing unprofitable? Answer: Not THAT many... But clearly since this hasn't happened, it either isn't that big of an issue, or EA/Bioware doesn't really care. Making your entire argument moot, from the point of view of "will EA/Bioware do this or not". Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cidanel Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 EVE has a problem, IMHO... it is only a matter of time before someone loses enough stuff worth real world money that their solution is to find the other person in real life... and solve their problem that way... EVE definitely isn't for everyone, but I personally love it. EVE is my main game, and SWTOR is where I go when I want to not look over my shoulder every two seconds. There is something extremely addicting about undocking a ship that took you four months to build/buy knowing you could permanently lose all of it in a few seconds... They are extremely strict about banning people if any scamming/griefing\harassment whatsoever bleeds over to real life. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieKirby Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 The only players that would be able to take advantage of this are those that have billions upon billions of credits that rip off other players on a daily basis and those that do dailies every single day, over and over and over again. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Syrenaone Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I have been trying to get Revan's mask for 2 years, I could use 9 Million thats collecting dust to buy my dream Mask =P lol you are lucky to have 10 Million just collecting dust Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
izeil Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 4. The most likely scenario would be a player selling this item, and it being bought/used by a veteran player with an inordinate number of credits. There is no new money. Bioware would simply be shuffling where the money comes from. There is no advantage to this scenario, and implementing such would, in my opinion, introduce more problems in dealing with gold sellers, etc. No thank you. That's part of the reason for the item costing more than a normal sub. As for the target market being only subs, that's kind of why I said the credit cap might have to go, although a determined enough person could get enough escrow unlocks to buy them. As for gold sellers, this generally pulls the rug out from under them. Why should John Doe buy credits from some shady person when he can just buy a couple of these and almost guarantee they're going to sell in a day or 2? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieKirby Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 EVE definitely isn't for everyone, but I personally love it. EVE is my main game, and SWTOR is where I go when I want to not look over my shoulder every two seconds. There is something extremely addicting about undocking a ship that took you four months to build/buy knowing you could permanently lose all of it in a few seconds... They are extremely strict about banning people if any scamming/griefing\harassment whatsoever bleeds over to real life. Eve Online is pvp dominated and like all pvp, players avoid challenges and pick on those that can't fight back....in other words.....cyber bullies....just with no rules broken....if only i had control over the rules, i would make sure if you kill anyone that can't even fight back...you lose all your pvp ranks (if Applicable) and all pvp currency.......easy solution....grow a backbone and fight other players that can fight back. :-) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
JamieKirby Posted November 25, 2014 Share Posted November 25, 2014 I have been trying to get Revan's mask for 2 years, I could use 9 Million thats collecting dust to buy my dream Mask =P lol you are lucky to have 10 Million just collecting dust I have 11-12mil collecting dust, but no item at all is worth 10mil credits, now if it is actually useful, like making the companion gear (as in the gear that requires them to use it) to level up with you, as in, when you upgrade your gear, theirs is upgraded as well...that is the only time an item is worth 10mil.....revan mask or not...no gear piece is worth 10mil. Sure, its an opinion. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TX_Angel Posted November 26, 2014 Share Posted November 26, 2014 I have 11-12mil collecting dust, but no item at all is worth 10mil credits, now if it is actually useful, like making the companion gear (as in the gear that requires them to use it) to level up with you, as in, when you upgrade your gear, theirs is upgraded as well...that is the only time an item is worth 10mil.....revan mask or not...no gear piece is worth 10mil. Sure, its an opinion. While I know the feeling, I did spring for the Rancor and Walker... Those were expensive, even back in the summer when I bought them, but I knew they would only get more expensive... Do I like them? Yes. Do I like them 30 million credits worth? Meh, sorta... They are nice decorations for my Stronghold, and anyone who comes by and see the pair of Rancors (Kingpin one as well) along with the Walker in the middle, frankly is usually impressed... but I actually don't use any of them, due to the crappy knockoff protection they have, or rather, don't have... I'd pay 30 million credits in 2 seconds... for a Walker with turbolasers on it and that I could just shoot enemies with. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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