Too squishy in flashpoints

[Banipal]

Hi, i'm a lvl 55 shadow tank, maxed out in kinetic combat, i'm geared up in survivor gear, with mostly 66 mods and armorings,

 

I usually charge in to fights with slow time, force breach to draw aggro, pummel away at whatever's there and if needed, i'll taunt (group taunt) when things go bad. I'm in combat stance (save the hassle of anyone bringing this up) and i have 31k hp with buffs and fortitude stim. But healers struggle to keep me up when it comes to mobs of creatures or droids when it comes to flashpoints.

 

For example i ran Athiss today, and towards the beginning i did the slow time, force breach, attack attack attack group taunt thing and i was pretty much dead, the healer did his best to keep me up but couldn't. The reason i'm not blaming the healer, and i'm blaming myself is that it's happened with more than one healer in the past and they've all said i'm too squishy. I don't have much trouble with bosses, but when mobs of whatever group up on me i'm a goner,

 

Am i too undergeared? Even with with above info i gave about my gear + skill distribution.

[Atramar]

augments? kinetic ward?

Some pulls are nasty, on my healers I usualy start the fight with my bigest heal started right after tank pulls,even if he didn't dropped his HP to much, just in case.

It's not class it self, on my jugg tank I tend to learn which fights are harder and use some CDs (reflect FTW), as L55hms are more demanding on healing (not to mention def stats nerf).

Healed many assassins and they were fine, try Mezzing some before fight starts.

 

considered taking 'on click' shield/absorb relic to use it as 'secondary CD'?

 

you are not undergeared, had 25k hp (so a bit undergeared by 'suggested gear' standards) tank last night, and as it needed 'more attention', it was generaly fine.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Atramar

[Banipal]

augments? kinetic ward?

Some pulls are nasty, on my healers I usualy start the fight with my bigest heal started right after tank pulls.

It's not class it self, on my jugg tank I tend to learn which fights are harder and use some CDs (reflect FTW), as L55hms are more demanding on healing (not to mention def stats nerf).

Healed many assassins and they were fine, try Mezzing some before fight starts.

 

considered taking 'on click' shield/absorb relic to use it as 'secondary CD'?

 

you are not undergeared, had 25k hm tank last night, and as it needed 'more attention', it was generaly fine.

 

Saber, Chest piece and feet are augmented with shield augments 22 (purples) and kinetic ward is up.

 

Mezzing, sorry dunno what that is mate?

 

I know i could be better geared, got my alts working on upping their slicing so i can make augment kits and augment everything with the new mk9 stuff.

[Atramar]

Saber, Chest piece and feet are augmented with shield augments 22 (purples) and kinetic ward is up.

 

Mezzing, sorry dunno what that is mate?

 

I know i could be better geared, got my alts working on upping their slicing so i can make augment kits and augment everything with the new mk9 stuff.

 

that could be it, if you can't handle mk-9, do mk-7/6, they should be quite cheap now, also follow gearing shadow/sins guides, most sin tanks I followed were going absorb and def augments, not shield chance ones (as you have planty from gear +15/20% from Kinetic Ward)

 

mezz is when you go stealth and can 60 sec CC with no aggro, think it's called Mind Snap or something. taking one strong out of 4 leaves you with 3, so 25% less damage taken

[DerekDrake]

Does it happen all the time? Do your group usually use CC? Does your DPS do their job well?

 

Now as a Infiltration Shadow, I CC'ed 1 before the tank coming in, insta-gib a strong mob, stun the elite one then proceed to clear all the weaklings. Sometimes I taunted one or two off the tank incase they're too many and Shadow really good at staying alive thanks to burst damage and aggro dump, good offensive is great defensive.

 

Don't taunt everything back to you every few second, let the mob spread out a little and only when DPS busy killing a big guy or doesn't look around. I occasionally ended up tanking too much and the rest of the group get mad but I rarely die and nor does the tank in my group.

[ipagex]

i'm geared up in survivor gear, with mostly 66 mods and armorings

 

That's your problem right there. Once you get full 66 you'll see an improvement. I too felt very squishy the first few times i did lvl 55 fps. But rest assured - IT IS NOT A SIN PROBLEM. I have all 3 tanks (pt, jugg, sin) and i know all 3 are facing the problem in the beginning.

[Banipal]

that could be it, if you can't handle mk-9, do mk-7/6, they should be quite cheap now, also follow gearing shadow/sins guides, most sin tanks I followed were going absorb and def augments, not shield chance ones (as you have planty from gear +15/20% from Kinetic Ward)

 

mezz is when you go stealth and can 60 sec CC with no aggro, think it's called Mind Snap or something. taking one strong out of 4 leaves you with 3, so 25% less damage taken

 

to be honest, i only do this in boss fights, when the main boss has 2 buddies beside him, never do this for the mobs of 8+ droids/creatures

 

Does it happen all the time? Do your group usually use CC? Does your DPS do their job well?

 

Don't taunt everything back to you every few second, let the mob spread out a little and only when DPS busy killing a big guy or doesn't look around. I occasionally ended up tanking too much and the rest of the group get mad but I rarely die and nor does the tank in my group.

 

Happens all the time yes, only cc the weaker bosses in boss fights (if possible) and i cannot say about DPS because i'm not sure on the role they play, they're jumping around here and there and i try to take aggro away from everyone all the time.

 

That's your problem right there. Once you get full 66 you'll see an improvement. I too felt very squishy the first few times i did lvl 55 fps. But rest assured - IT IS NOT A SIN PROBLEM. I have all 3 tanks (pt, jugg, sin) and i know all 3 are facing the problem in the beginning.

 

It's been hard for me, especially hilts and enhancements coz i have no alts that do them + they cost 300k a piece on my server's GTN (aussie server) Problem is, the easiest way for me to gear up is HM FP's and that's where i struggle to even reach the end boss fights sometimes

[IInox]

My rl is a shadow tank since day1 and hasn't these problems. I'm a shadow infiltration and some pulls needs 1,2 cc. A tlllbte i don't remember strong pulls on athiss.

[Atramar]

in short, OP, try using CC on every pull, it doesny cost you anything

and review your augments. my sin tank got retired and moved to DPS (mybe I'll ressurect her at some point) when I got bored and noticed Jugg tanks are so much more fun (I love jumping lol) so can't tell first hand which augments are best (before she retired, I went all def chance, but since shield effects got buffed, check shadow/sin forums for gearing guides)

 

2 nights ago I was tossed in group with 27k hp sin tank, he used CC on every pull, and it felt like L50 hm again (I mean healing was easy peasy)

[Banipal]

I guess more cc's and better augments and i should be good. otherwise just gonna go dps =(

 

Thanks for the responses guys

[steave]

Just to make sure, are you checking the state on your gear "upgrades" so you don't swap shield for accuracy/alacrity?

[Banipal]

Just to make sure, are you checking the state on your gear "upgrades" so you don't swap shield for accuracy/alacrity?

 

Yep, definitely aware of that =)

[throwdownj]

athis has a really tough pull as soon as you get down the stairs and right before the first boss girl thing there is like 5 droids 2 on the left 2 on right and a pat. im in pretty much all 69 and without some cc's that is a really tough pull and with a bad roll or 2 i can die in 2 or 3 seconds. cd's dont seem to help much with that pull cept battle readiness or w/e its called. some pulls just need cc's and some pulls just need deflection and some need res. learn the pulls that are tough and what cd's help and if its none then use some cc's

[Atramar]

athis has a really tough pull as soon as you get down the stairs and right before the first boss girl thing there is like 5 droids 2 on the left 2 on right and a pat. im in pretty much all 69 and without some cc's that is a really tough pull and with a bad roll or 2 i can die in 2 or 3 seconds. cd's dont seem to help much with that pull cept battle readiness or w/e its called. some pulls just need cc's and some pulls just need deflection and some need res. learn the pulls that are tough and what cd's help and if its none then use some cc's

 

they do a lot of start damage. on that pull, using 5 seconds of deflection, just from returning damage, they lose 50% of their hp

[Banipal]

Good to know im not super squishy!!

[Banipal]

fyi, my stats are

 

presence 496,

endurance 2662

willpower 1846

this is at level 55 with 30662 HP

 

does this change anything?

[Atramar]

fyi, my stats are

 

presence 496,

endurance 2662

willpower 1846

this is at level 55 with 30662 HP

 

does this change anything?

 

and tanking stats? rating and % for shield chance/absorb, armor rating and def chance.

[ipagex]

athis has a really tough pull as soon as you get down the stairs and right before the first boss girl thing there is like 5 droids 2 on the left 2 on right and a pat. im in pretty much all 69 and without some cc's that is a really tough pull and with a bad roll or 2 i can die in 2 or 3 seconds. cd's dont seem to help much with that pull cept battle readiness or w/e its called. some pulls just need cc's and some pulls just need deflection and some need res. learn the pulls that are tough and what cd's help and if its none then use some cc's

 

That particular encounter is indeed a hard one IF you don't cc any droid, especially cause you can't run/grab aggro on all of them before they hit your team members. But if you have 2 CC's it gets real simple. Same with alot of other fights.

 

Mandalorian Raiders on the other hand has some really bad *** mobs. You think you're facing 3 mobs, the next second you have 5 angry dogs on you. Beat that with CC's!

You really need to make sure you have some cooldowns for those, at least until you get over the recommended gear for that FP.

[Banipal]

and tanking stats? rating and % for shield chance/absorb, armor rating and def chance.

 

Armor rating 5979

Damage Reduction 29.93%

Def chance 18.69

Shield Chance 28.23%

Shield Absorb 25.50%

[Atramar]

Armor rating 5979

Damage Reduction 29.93%

Def chance 18.69

Shield Chance 28.23%

Shield Absorb 25.50%

 

shield chance and absorb look bit low, you sure you don't have any alacrity/accuracy mods by accident? if all enhancments are right, then it could be augments, I'd say absorb/def chance, but ask sin/shadow people.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Atramar

[Banipal]

shield chance and absorb look bit low, you sure you don't have any alacrity/accuracy mods by accident? if all enhancments are right, then it could be augments, I'd say absorb/def chance, but ask sin/shadow people.

 

what u recommend they be at?

[Atramar]

what u recommend they be at?

 

I'm not an oracle nor I have sin tank atm so I can only suggest to have a look

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=616779

I can ask some sins in my guild what are their stats distribution (those that run SV hm) and give you my jugg tank stats, but for those you will have to wait atleast 4 hours for me to get home from work and eat something

 

edit:linked wrong thread, now it's correct link

Edited April 26, 2013 by Atramar

[Banipal]

I'm not an oracle nor I have sin tank atm so I can only suggest to have a look

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=616779

I can ask some sins in my guild what are their stats distribution (those that run SV hm) and give you my jugg tank stats, but for those you will have to wait atleast 4 hours for me to get home from work and eat something

 

edit:linked wrong thread, now it's correct link

 

You're a legend mate, can't thank you enough!

[Grumpftard]

Hi, i'm a lvl 55 shadow tank, maxed out in kinetic combat, i'm geared up in survivor gear, with mostly 66 mods and armorings,

.

 

You say "maxed out"...If you could give us your spec. There could be a talent or two you might have missed that could help.

Also.... It sounds from your OP that your experience with this is not that long. One thing about Shadow tanks is that they require a kind of "subtlety" to play. We are not brute force tanks or "meat shields". So when it comes to our survivability, it requires a very active play style. Like one person commented...CC can make a big difference. That's not to say that every pull you have to stop and CC as much as possible. I do the occasional drive by as I rush in and just CC one. It's usually enough to take the edge off the damage for the healer. Interrupts help a LOT....especially if you are very familiar with the mob being tanked and know WHICH ones to interrupt and which ones to eat. Rotating your CD's effectively. We have a lot of them. Controlling the pack movements. We have a CC, a stun, a sprint, stealth, a pull, an AIMABLE knock-back. All of which when used strategically can help control just how many of the "pack" are actually hitting you at one time. In Mando i had a problem with those damn dogs, until I started using LoS pulls to control their movement. Hell....on some 8-man runs, I have been known to stealth out mid fight to let the boss run half way across the room to the ranged, just to taunt him back before he gets there. The entire round trip....the healer is getting caught up because the boss is too busy derp'ing instead of hitting anybody (kids....don't try this at home).

 

The more you play, the more you'll develop a feel for the little In's & Out's of the class. It's the little things like these that make Shadows unique and a little tricky to get the hang of....and just sooooo much fun to play!

Edited April 26, 2013 by Grumpftard

[TralyanSavo]

they do a lot of start damage. on that pull, using 5 seconds of deflection, just from returning damage, they lose 50% of their hp

 

Shadow's deflection doesn't return damage to mobs. Deflection is still nice to use on this mob though.

 

That pull is easy if you CC 2 or 3 of the mobs on one side. Make sure you pull while popping deflection and then have the DPS/Healer throw CC, otherwise you sometimes end up with a dead DPS.