How is your damage scaling in 2.0?

[stendarrs]

We all know about the nerfs so I'm not even going to start. I'm just curious to see if anyone is continuing to play/gear their VG and see what kind of numbers they're hitting on crits/attacks. I can't help but notice that my commando is critting for 8k to 9k, my sentinel is hitting for 8k to 9.5k while my VG is still hitting for 5.5k to 6k (HIB). I'm not fully min/max in conqueror but I was expecting at least a little bump just going to 2.0. Everyone's HP is up at least 20% and crit numbers (damage/healing) seem to be up across the board. However, VG assault damage is just not moving in the right direction to make me want to keep playing. I have seen a 7k crit on a rail shot with stacked relics on proc, but what are the odds that's going to happen very often (well, never after they fix the stack on proc relics). So, if we now time our sticky grenade with a rail shot and happen to crit we *might* be able to sniff the crit damage that a sent/guardian can basically output on demand with an autocrit. As others have noted, I can still put up pretty stats at the end of a match, but I'll gladly trade my dots for some kind of burst. Is anyone else having better luck? And again, yes, I know about all the nerfs but HIB crit'ing for the same damage pre and post 2.0 just seems a bit off. Hmmm, maybe it'll all get fixed with the bolster...yeah, that's the ticket.

[Ren_simp]

I play assault and From what I've seen not very well, in sub 55 in full ewh I was averaging 6.5-7.5k Hib crits and some rare crits over 8k, in 55 pvp In full partisan I'm struggling to break 5k hib crits.

At the scoreboard I'm usually around 500k- 600k but seeing other classes hiting 1mil+ in the same warzones

[Forsaked]

You overall DMG is ok even on assault, but the DMG from our main special HiB is crap compared to other classes.

It crit for 5,5-7k with 2018 expertiese thats it.

(Dont count the buggy 11K HiB i made in 55 WZ!)

 

A Jedi-Guardien/Juggernaut has 4 specials which can hit with a DMG-Potential of 7K+ (Smash, Guardien Strike, Dispatch and Saber Throw).

We should get a boost on HiB, even if it is a crit boost!

[stendarrs]

Another thing I noticed is that my protection numbers have dropped since 2.0 went live. I expected them to up as damage has gone up. Something just really seems to be amiss in regards to this class. Even accounting for the nerfs, it just seems to me that a lot of numbers are "off" somehow

[ScruffyWhite]

You overall DMG is ok even on assault, but the DMG from our main special HiB is crap compared to other classes.

It crit for 5,5-7k with 2018 expertiese thats it.

(Dont count the buggy 11K HiB i made in 55 WZ!)

 

A Jedi-Guardien/Juggernaut has 4 specials which can hit with a DMG-Potential of 7K+ (Smash, Guardien Strike, Dispatch and Saber Throw).

We should get a boost on HiB, even if it is a crit boost!

 

LOL guardian slash is a full tank ability and crits for like 3k at best and saber throw hits for less -_-

 

EDIT: unless you meant overhead slash?

Edited April 28, 2013 by ScruffyWhite

[Forsaked]

It could be that this is the ability, never got killed by it so i cant recognize the correct name.

But i already got finished several times with saber throw which scales vs. 2018 expertiese and 5,xK Armor up to 7,6K!

[ChickenWangs]

We all know about the nerfs so I'm not even going to start. I'm just curious to see if anyone is continuing to play/gear their VG and see what kind of numbers they're hitting on crits/attacks. I can't help but notice that my commando is critting for 8k to 9k, my sentinel is hitting for 8k to 9.5k while my VG is still hitting for 5.5k to 6k (HIB). I'm not fully min/max in conqueror but I was expecting at least a little bump just going to 2.0. Everyone's HP is up at least 20% and crit numbers (damage/healing) seem to be up across the board. However, VG assault damage is just not moving in the right direction to make me want to keep playing. I have seen a 7k crit on a rail shot with stacked relics on proc, but what are the odds that's going to happen very often (well, never after they fix the stack on proc relics). So, if we now time our sticky grenade with a rail shot and happen to crit we *might* be able to sniff the crit damage that a sent/guardian can basically output on demand with an autocrit. As others have noted, I can still put up pretty stats at the end of a match, but I'll gladly trade my dots for some kind of burst. Is anyone else having better luck? And again, yes, I know about all the nerfs but HIB crit'ing for the same damage pre and post 2.0 just seems a bit off. Hmmm, maybe it'll all get fixed with the bolster...yeah, that's the ticket.

 

Someone hasn't PVEed with their vanguard yet .

 

As for PVP I feel that the damage reduction is annoying, and there needs to be a buff to fix it. Not a huge one, but maybe put the reactive shield cooldown back in the tree. Survivability is garbage now.

[Helig]

You overall DMG is ok even on assault, but the DMG from our main special HiB is crap compared to other classes.

It crit for 5,5-7k with 2018 expertiese thats it.

(Dont count the buggy 11K HiB i made in 55 WZ!)

 

A Jedi-Guardien/Juggernaut has 4 specials which can hit with a DMG-Potential of 7K+ (Smash, Guardien Strike, Dispatch and Saber Throw).

We should get a boost on HiB, even if it is a crit boost!

One small piece of advice. Know your way around a class you're commenting on. Prevents silly posts like this which imply 31/31/31spec+imaginary skills.

 

Guards/Juggs have several hard-hitters, 2 of which are 4-meter melee, 1 is PBAoE, 1 is 10-meter short range, and are spec-sensitive:

 

Master Strike/Ravage - the channelled ability that is easily stopped/avoided if it is done with no setup (Vengeance Jugg triggers Unstoppable+talented root extension, but even then Unstoppable ends before the third, most painful hit, and you can push him away/stun him/whatever. Oh, and you can easily run away by breaking the root with Hold the Line - you'll only get hit by the first 2 weak hits).

 

Dispatch/Vicious Throw - 30% HP Execute, can be used by Vigilance/Vengeance before 30% after a proc, not not more than once per 20 secs.

 

Overhead Slash/Impale - only Vigilance/Vengeance, bread and butter of the spec.

 

Sweep/Smash - does a lot of damage only with stacked Singularity, which is available only to Focus/Rage spec.

Edited April 29, 2013 by Helig

[stendarrs]

Someone hasn't PVEed with their vanguard yet .

 

As for PVP I feel that the damage reduction is annoying, and there needs to be a buff to fix it. Not a huge one, but maybe put the reactive shield cooldown back in the tree. Survivability is garbage now.

 

I don't PvE with my vanguard and (no offense) I get the feeling that you probably don't do ranked PvP. Unranked WZ's?? Pick a tree or hybrid and you'll put up "good" numbers. High level PvP requires a lot more than that and right now Vanguard just doesn't have it. By my count we're sitting on 4 damage reductions after 2.0. Someone please correct me if I'm mistaken by one of these items:

 

1. Plasma cell damage reduction which reduces damage across the board.

2. AP got turned in to a dot which killed the burst and isn't even worth having any more.

3. HIB armor penetration got reduced so HIB hits for less while most other classes are hitting harder.

4. Ion Pulse crit damage is apparently just broken. (assault class talent)

 

I have personally run 8 different variants for builds trying to find something that will work for a ranked team. The results are to forget about DPS and run as a tank in case your team happens to be missing their guardian that night. The pendulum has swung and anyone with a VG/PT is left with the boobie prize of 2.0. Thanks for playin'

[Macroeconomics]

We all know about the nerfs so I'm not even going to start. I'm just curious to see if anyone is continuing to play/gear their VG and see what kind of numbers they're hitting on crits/attacks.

 

On my PT Pyro I can still hit 700-800k periodically and in a full 15min match 1 million is doable. Thus the nominal ceiling for the subclass hasn't changed much. But those numbers now pale in comparison the numbers a real dps class do. A good AoE class (either rage.focus, sorc or even operative) can easily exceed 1.5 million in a full 15 min match. And they are much more self-sufficient (i.e. needing less healing support) in order to do so. The "I still regularly top the charts with 700k damage as a VG/PT" statements are true, but they rely on playing a majority of your matches against pug teams which don't heal wounded team members efficiently.

 

DoT classes have always tended to be lower burst, and that is where VG/PT firmly resides. As a corollary DoT classes in SWtoR suck. The only viable DoT classes have access to unlimited AoE DoTs. Such as with Sniper Lethality. A VG/PT can attempt to do the same thing with FlameSweep/ExplosiveSurge. But look at the difference between that ability and the Snipers - the VG/PT's ability has a short range which makes him more vulnerable to counterattacks, and prevents him from easily targeting multiple clusters of enemies on successive GCDs, it costs 2.5x the energy and it does about half the damage. Doh. And then there are the DoT classes that don't have any AoE DoTs, i.e. Merc/Commando Pyro/Assault. These truly suck.

 

When you line up these various classes and compare them objectively, it is clear that some subclasses come out way ahead. They have better abilities, lower CDs, more defensive abilities, etc. No rational person looking at things in this manner would conclude that the classes are balanced. But BW does, because they don't view the classes that way. The lack of manpower BW has allocated to class balance has forced them to rely heavily on automated numerical analysis. Meta averages. And that's why we are where we are.

 

Another thing I noticed is that my protection numbers have dropped since 2.0 went live. I expected them to up as damage has gone up. Something just really seems to be amiss in regards to this class. Even accounting for the nerfs, it just seems to me that a lot of numbers are "off" somehow :confused

 

The reason for this is Shoulder Cannon. I like Shoulder Cannon. But the reality is that a good player can usually only get in one taunt OR one Shoulder Cannon shot in between two GCD abilities without causing a significant delay before the second ability is implemented. So once PT/VGs start using Shoulder Cannon, taunts get used less frequently. Hence the decline in protection output for PT/VG dps classes. Effectively our one nice new toy (Shoulder Cannon) nerfed one of our useful secondary abilities. Ugh.

 

Now theoretically, one can interweave taunts and Shoulder Cannon shots since the taunts are not off CD frequently enough to fill all our gaps between GCD abilities. But even if one could accomplish that, you are just further dampening any damage burst output the class has.

Edited May 1, 2013 by Macroeconomics

[Luco-Zade]

Unfortunately, due to bolster or some other bugged mechanic, my VG using the "Wet Noodle" build, uses HIB and crits for no more than 2.5k atm, my feckin IP hits harder non-crit.

 

Talk about feeling handicapped.

 

Even on the kind of Voidstar where you get sort of ignored, i havent been able to do more than 400k DPS since 2.0, most times its not more than 300k.