Huttball Championships - Rebels vs Separatists

[Warren-Stride]

I know i saw still changes nothing and several of those things are still considered cannon the end when and how palp is kid napped the stuff with durge and several points with greivous are still considered cannon everything is cannon until it is in direct contradiction with something else until we see another way for her to die thats still the way she dies.

 

And yes but we have to take into account scale here anakins powers could as much as double from that time and we know Lukes are Double RotS anakin not that anakin so that coupled with her duels against dooku showing her to be a lesser makashi master then dooku seems to support her losing faster. Characters get better over time dont you think its possible you are now underestimating RotS anakin.

 

It's not cannon.

 

Oh, so being able to hold off Obi-wan and Anakin at the same time? How much "percent" of Luke's power is that?

[tunewalker]

I have no idea where you are getting that from. Luke never choked any Gammorreans, and he certainly never would considering he's a, you know, Jedi? On his Wookieepedia article in makes no mention of him EVER using Force Choke, much less by the RotJ time.

 

never choked gammorreans you say go watch episode 6 again when he first walks into jabba's palace 2 gammoreans stand in his way with a gesture he chokes both of them out. And again that choking of obi and ani are much earlier time in the series isnt it as their powers grow so does their force resist did you not see the post i showed of anakin choking out ventress meaning before her death he was already supperior to her in that regard and could now push through her resist luke getting more then double that. I will post it again if you like as well as find the gamoreans.

Edited April 25, 2013 by tunewalker

[Warren-Stride]

I do need the gammorrean shot, if you could find that.

 

All lol. Ventress definitely had her guard down, if you couldn't tell. (And Obi-wan was later choked by Dooku, so not much character change there.)

 

What is this "Luke's power" thing, anyways? I've shown how Ventress can counter his lightsaber form, and I've shown how she doesn't tire, even when two heroic Jedi are pounding on her at the same time. What is Luke's "power" that makes him so much better than Anakin? Not training. Not physical strength. Not lightsaber form. So... what?

 

 

This entire thread the Rebels have been relying on Luke to be the answer to everything. It's starting to look more and more like a one man team.

[tunewalker]

I do need the gammorrean shot, if you could find that.

 

All lol. Ventress definitely had her guard down, if you couldn't tell. (And Obi-wan was later choked by Dooku, so not much character change there.)

 

What is this "Luke's power" thing, anyways? I've shown how Ventress can counter his lightsaber form, and I've shown how she doesn't tire, even when two heroic Jedi are pounding on her at the same time. What is Luke's "power" that makes him so much better than Anakin? Not training. Not physical strength. Not lightsaber form. So... what?

 

 

This entire thread the Rebels have been relying on Luke to be the answer to everything. It's starting to look more and more like a one man team.

 

cant find the original scene cus nobody cared about it just pop in episode 6 dvd you'll see it but here is the recreation of it this is every bit point for point what happens

and actually you are wrong on every degree he is Physically stronger, has a better lightsaber form and superior training he was in every way his father but better in every single aspect like i said not as flashy but multiple times more effective. And no Its not just Luke i will go into detail on the other characters and their abilites when Luke is finished. Also a side note dooku is more powerful then ventress and he choked obi not ani and i am not argueing obi he tops off at a point ani just gets stronger even after he gets into the suit (of course after initially getting weaker in the suit) Edited April 25, 2013 by tunewalker

[Warren-Stride]

Okay, I'm tired of Luke. Let's end this so I don't have to deal with that anymore. By the Force, I hate that character.

 

Just want to again point out that it's been "Luke this, Luke that" and I assure you that one person teams do not do well in huttball.

[Warren-Stride]

That's pretty much what I'm thinking. And if I think about the huttball matches I played I noticed the following: Power is only useful for defence. When attacking, killing an opponent potentially places him between your ball carrier and the goalline (the exception are healers, which we don't have here).

Now the separatists have rather powerful, agile fighters (Ventress and Grievous) who can defeat the ball carrier (if necessary by outnumbering him. Ever tried to block six attacks at the same time?)

The rebels have only one really fast fighter and that is Galen. (What Galen can do in TFU is beyond anything Luke does in Episode 6 if we talk about agility and flexibility.) One fast carrier isn't enough, if the enemy has two fast defenders who can catch up.

Also: R2 can fight, but he has no way to defend himself against anybody (except for hiding). Therefore if 2 of the droids are taking care of him (as I suggested for the separatists) he can't do a lot. Therefore, while the rebels do have 2 very powerful fighters, their powerful fighters are still outnumbered ( 4 vs 3) which is a problem if anyone of them has to carry the ball or if they have to stop the separatists ball carrier.

 

So my vote goes for agility in this one.

 

^ This post

[tunewalker]

Okay, I'm tired of Luke. Let's end this so I don't have to deal with that anymore. By the Force, I hate that character.

 

Just want to again point out that it's been "Luke this, Luke that" and I assure you that one person teams do not do well in huttball.

 

this post

 

I absolutely agree with you I invite you to read my first post page 7, 7th post on the same page first 2 paragraphs I can go into more detail but pretty much galen should be capable of fighting evenly with dooku should be able to take ventress after a prolonged fight beats greivous outright simply by crushing his chest and lightning and can hold off durge indefinately.

 

Rohm is known for being able to keep his distance and is very much at home in this type of an arena as most of the power players on the seps team generally need to get close to be able to out match Rohm but with Rohm's tactics that can take a while (also if you think his telekentics are worse then dooku's you are a bit off base Rohm took down fairly large things and often employed telekentics in combat, as i have said before, to help control he field of battle)

 

P.S for counter response to the this post check the one imidiatly after it.

Edited April 25, 2013 by tunewalker

[Beniboybling]

A few points to address:

 

Galen Marek: I am of the belief that Marek is more powerful than Dooku - given the fact that he surpassed Vader. Marek's lightning (regardless of in-game visuals) is exceptionally powerful and far more powerful than Dooku's who will have a hard time deflecting it. His ability to chain Force attacks into his lightsaber combat is also a significant boon. And like it or not, he did redirect the flight path of a Star Destroyer, which is no mean feat. Starkiller is also capable of tutanimis.

 

He does not however wield Djem So, but Juyo combined with Shien and Soresu. An aggresive form yes, but also one that leaves him vulnerable to Dun Moch - something Dooku is an expert in.

 

Jar'Kai: It is likely that all duelists in this battle are fully aware of dual wielding combat, given the fact that is was not exactly rare (unlike double-bladed lightsabers) during this period.

 

Makashi vs Djem So: This is by no means an auto-win for Djem So. Nonetheless we cannot ignore the fact that Makashi is inherently weak against the power attacks this form produces, a weakness that can only be overcome by being the superior duelist. Given that neither Ventress nor Dooku are superior to Luke means they will likely lose a lightsaber duel. But this is Huttball, the purpose is to score not to kill.

 

And for the record, that duel Warren brings up is a draw, if anything Anakin wins as he knocks Ventress down and prior to that Ventress attempts to flee.

 

Ventress vs Anakin: I'm not sure that event is canon any longer, Ventress' death certainly isn't as she was given another death and if that was her canon death, she would not have made any appearances in TCW. (Given that Anakin was a Padawan in that duel.

[tunewalker]

A few points to address:

 

Galen Marek: I am of the belief that Marek is more powerful than Dooku - given the fact that he surpassed Vader. Marek's lightning (regardless of in-game visuals) is exceptionally powerful and far more powerful than Dooku's who will have a hard time deflecting it. His ability to chain Force attacks into his lightsaber combat is also a significant boon. And like it or not, he did redirect the flight path of a Star Destroyer, which is no mean feat. Starkiller is also capable of tutanimis.

 

He does not however wield Djem So, but Juyo combined with Shien and Soresu. An aggresive form yes, but also one that leaves him vulnerable to Dun Moch - something Dooku is an expert in.

 

Jar'Kai: It is likely that all duelists in this battle are fully aware of dual wielding combat, given the fact that is was not exactly rare (unlike double-bladed lightsabers) during this period.

 

Makashi vs Djem So: This is by no means an auto-win for Djem So. Nonetheless we cannot ignore the fact that Makashi is inherently weak against the power attacks this form produces, a weakness that can only be overcome by being the superior duelist. Given that neither Ventress nor Dooku are superior to Luke means they will likely lose a lightsaber duel. But this is Huttball, the purpose is to score not to kill.

 

And for the record, that duel Warren brings up is a draw, if anything Anakin wins as he knocks Ventress down and prior to that Ventress attempts to flee.

 

Ventress vs Anakin: I'm not sure that event is canon any longer, Ventress' death certainly isn't as she was given another death and if that was her canon death, she would not have made any appearances in TCW. (Given that Anakin was a Padawan in that duel.

 

how does she die in the new series I was under the impression she was still alive before the show was canceled. That and I wasnt meaning the timeline of her death being cannon only the method as far as i am aware Leeland tries to avoid retconning as much as possible and I thought it was generally excepted that anything that was not in direct contradiction with something else would still be considered cannon if not I may need to reanalize ventress's abilities.

 

As far as Galen goes most people seem to over estimate him. For one thing one of his best accomplishments is, like Luke, he bested darth vader but it never seems to be taken into account WHEN he bested the dark lord. He bested darth vader in between episode 3 and episode 4 and as known from the rise of darth vader novel during this time period vader was actually weaker then anakin. In fact the words of the emporer if truelly listened to can pretty much tell you this, he calls vader a shell of his former self a lot of people took this to mean that vader's potential had been destroyed which it is true that it was but i invite you to take it another way that he, at that time, had not just lost his potential but even his current power was less then anakin. This is supported by several other things including a statement (not sure if it was Lucas or leeland) that said Galen was supposed to be a show of how powerful Luke would have been in episode 5 had he, instead of being trained by yoda, benn trained by Vader. This to me suggests that Galen was actually slightly weaker then ESB Luke which is supported by the novel Shadow of the empire (chronologically came after ESB and is on the same cannon lvl as TFU) where vader calls ESB Luke the most powerful opponent he had ever faced.

 

Now i know this book was written before the prequels and before TFU but they are still in the same universe and technically as the statement can be explained and shown to be true through the use of other novel's that came after TFU and after the prequels its statement along with the events of TFU dont actually conflict, as like I said Galen didnt defeat ESB vader he defeated a vader that could very well, if not assuradly, be weaker then anakin as such Galen could potentially lose to dooku, though i doubt it more likely that he would fight dooku to a draw and defeat ventress, but do to his ability with force lightning and grevious's entire lack of force would mean he would be vunerable to this type of attack.

 

So again remeber that TFU and Shadow are the same lvl of cannon and should be treated as such and as you can see here and with support from the novel rise of darth vader both vader losing to galen and then later defeating ESB luke and then calling ESB Luke the more powerful of the 2 can in fact be 100% true and most likely is do to statements made by the emporer in TFU and the information given in the rise of darth vader novel.

 

 

P.S. If we analyze the fight with ventress and anakin on the kamino ya i see anakin as technically winning that as the only way ventress became an issue was when ani could only use 1 hand on his saber something Djem So users aren't used to doing and they lose much of their power in both offense and defense by doing so. Until then Anakin was dominating that duel, ventress was trying to flee and was using more physical strikes to try to avoid being overpowered and yet she still was being planted on her bum in still under a minute only when anakin lost the use of his second hand did she gain the upper hand. This is actually a weakness in form that vader (and subsequently Luke) would over come thanks to the incorperation of some makashi and ataru tactics into their Djem So making them nearly as effective with one hand on a blade as two as shown by Vader in ESB.

Edited April 25, 2013 by tunewalker

[Beniboybling]

how does she die in the new series I was under the impression she was still alive before the show was canceled. That and I wasnt meaning the timeline of her death being cannon only the method as far as i am aware Leeland tries to avoid retconning as much as possible and I thought it was generally excepted that anything that was not in direct contradiction with something else would still be considered cannon if not I may need to reanalize ventress's abilities.

Timeline aside its simply impossible to incoporate it into existing canon. Why? Well firstly Anakin is clearly a Padawan in that duel, given the braid etc. Secondly Ventress is wielding lightsabers she no longer possesses, and wearing robes that she has forsaken, as well as still being apprentice to a master whom has betrayed her. Nor does she have any reason to fight Anakin and seems instead to just want to get away from this war. It will or has been retconned because it directly contradicts TCW series. And if the duel doesn't happen, her death can't happen.

 

Not to mention the fact that an existing canon story regarding her eventual fate already exists (which I believe may also have been retconned) leading me to question whether she actually died in that duel anyway.

 

Basically, if that duel resulted in her death, it is highly likely to be non-canon.

[Mathemagica]

I didn't read throught all the new posts, but I wanted to add a few things:

 

When you watch the scene in episode 6 where Luke enters Jabba's palace, it definitely looks like he is force choking the two gamorreans who try to stop him. (Yeah, Youtube isn't any help at all with this scene.)

 

Much more imporantly: I feel like we are focusing too much on the lore side of the discussion and forget about huttball tactics (I tried to move towards it in my last post). So let me ask you a question: Who do you fear more in Huttball? The sniper/powertech or the assassin who force sprints throught the fire, even breaking roots? You might guess my answer from the way I asked.

 

What Galen Marek is doing concerning agility and flexibility in TFU is also beyond anything Luke does in episode 5 (including the novelizations), just to have completed my sentence from further above.

 

Some additional offtopic remarks concerning lore: Galen also overwhelms the emperor and can you explain me why Vader gains more power again during the later phase of the Galactic empire?

Also note, that Starkiller was trained under Vader from childhood. I don't know the exact length of Lukes first stay on Dagobah, but it can't be more than a few weeks.

It would be more appropriate to say that Starkiller demonstrates the power Luke would have, if he wouldn't follow the Jedi code of restraint (of aggression/attack).

Also: Lore is contradicting itself at many places. Since 'Shadows of the Empire' has been written before TFU, I would rather assume - if you want to have an explanation within the story - that Vader banned Starkiller from his memory as soon as he was finally defeated (though we don't know about this final defeat yet). I mean... Luke didn't have any obvious chance of killing Vader in ESB, while Starkiller definitely has in TFU. I think Vader's statement belongs to the many things in the EU that have been bent and overwritten by new parts of the saga (soon we might have this again;)).

 

EDIT: Just realized that my original example (smasher vs assasin) doesn't work, because smashers have 3 leaps and hence are quite fast. Take a sniper or a powertech (even the unnerfed PTS-version if you like) instead.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Mathemagica

[Aurbere]

There's still one problem with the 'Rebels win' argument: Durge. How do the rebel players get around him?

[tunewalker]

I didn't read throught all the new posts, but I wanted to add a few things:

 

When you watch the scene in episode 6 where Luke enters Jabba's palace, it definitely looks like he is force choking the two gamorreans who try to stop him. (Yeah, Youtube isn't any help at all with this scene.)

 

Much more imporantly: I feel like we are focusing too much on the lore side of the discussion and forget about huttball tactics (I tried to move towards it in my last post). So let me ask you a question: Who do you fear more in Huttball? The smasher or the assassin who force sprints throught the fire, even breaking roots? You might guess my answer from the way I asked.

 

What Galen Marek is doing concerning agility and flexibility in TFU is also beyond anything Luke does in episode 5 (including the novelizations), just to have completed my sentence from further above.

 

Some additional offtopic remarks concerning lore: Galen also overwhelms the emperor and can you explain me why Vader gains more power again during the later phase of the Galactic empire?

Also note, that Starkiller was trained under Vader from childhood. I don't know the exact length of Lukes first stay on Dagobah, but it can't be more than a few weeks.

It would be more appropriate to say that Starkiller demonstrates the power Luke would have, if he wouldn't follow the Jedi code of restraint (of aggression/attack).

Also: Lore is contradicting itself at many places. Since 'Shadows of the Empire' has been written before TFU, I would rather assume - if you want to have an explanation within the story - that Vader banned Starkiller from his memory as soon as he was finally defeated (though we don't know about this final defeat yet). I mean... Luke didn't have any obvious chance of killing Vader in ESB, while Starkiller definitely has in TFU. I think Vader's statement belongs to the many things in the EU that have been bent and overwritten by new parts of the saga (soon we might have this again;)).

 

The amount of time is not actually the thing that matters Galen in TFU is as powerful as Luke is had recieved training from Vader instead of Yoda still those same couple of weeks the quote is saying that years of training brought galen to where Luke would have been after weeks. For the whole vader less powerful just need to read the rise of darth vader Novel where he lements at having become so much weaker since his entrapment in the suit with the events of TFU happening soon after this novel as it still takes place beteen episode 3 and episode 4 Vader is still recovering from his injuries and has not yet reached the pinicle he would be at when in ESB and RotJ. Further more if you listen to the emporer he calls vader a shell of his former self we have no reason to believe that he is talking about potential and not current thus saying that TFU Vader is actually weaker then anakin. And lastly do to all of above we have no reason to discount Shadow as like i have said before they are technically both books and leeland again is very cautious not to retcon anything unneccicarily seeing as they are both books thus on the same lvl of cannon and that it can be explained through character statements and known timelines that both statements not only CAN be true but they MUST be true.

Edited April 25, 2013 by tunewalker

[tunewalker]

There's still one problem with the 'Rebels win' argument: Durge. How do the rebel players get around him?

 

several ways here chopping off his head as greivous had done fire pits doing enough damadge to cause him to be incapacitated, incapacitated through lightning shocking his whole body being held off with telekentics by another team member. large explosions have shown to incapacitate him. There are many ways to incapacitate durge simplist seems just cut off his head or draw him into the fire and keep him there until he sustains to many burns and goes into hybernation like all of his species when they take to much full body damadge.

[Aurbere]

several ways here chopping off his head as greivous had done fire pits doing enough damadge to cause him to be incapacitated, incapacitated through lightning shocking his whole body being held off with telekentics by another team member. large explosions have shown to incapacitate him. There are many ways to incapacitate durge simplist seems just cut off his head or draw him into the fire and keep him there until he sustains to many burns and goes into hybernation like all of his species when they take to much full body damadge.

 

The issue with that is that then members of Team Rebels will be distracted by trying to incapacitate Durge, allowing Team Seps to either score or kill members of Team Rebels.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Aurbere

[tunewalker]

The issue with that is that then members of Team Rebels will be distracted by trying to incapacitate Durge, allowing Team Seps to either score or kill members of Team Rebels.

 

see the issue with that is i see everyone on the seps dead before this. The rebels only distracting durge as he has nothing the team isnt able to either parry away with their lightsabers or just telekenetically throw it away unless he goes at them in melee just increasing his chances to be incapacitated. Heck knowing the rebel troopers I actually say even they have a chance to incapacitate or keep durge busy through clever trapping.

Edited April 25, 2013 by tunewalker

[Warren-Stride]

The rebels only distracting durge as he has nothing the team isnt able to either parry away with their lightsabers or just telekenetically throw it away unless he goes at them in melee just increasing his chances to be incapacitated.

 

Flamethrowers. Luke/Rahm/Starkiller cannot stop their heads from being seared into a crisp. Sorry, they can't.

[Warren-Stride]

Well, I'll take Beni's post as a "Rebels win" kinda statement. I guess it's a tad pointless to continue when the judge says that one team has two characters that are far better than any of the other team's players.

 

But what the heck, why not.

 

I agree that we should focus more on Huttball tactics, meaning that the Seps will be moving in a group. Grievous is a general, after all. They'll protect the ball carrier (Durge) and easily leap to, climb to, or jetpack across the arena. Dooku could use the Force to tear the arena apart and create an easier path. Durge could shed his armor and become a gigantic stretchy mass that could easily carry the ball from the middle to the endzone in one long stretch. The Sith have plenty of knockbacks, including Force Choke, Force Push, and lightning. Grievous could twirl his lightsabers around a pathway, blocking the Rebel's pursuit. Each of them are also accustomed to combating multiple opponents at the same time, making them ideal ball carriers.

 

And on the flip side, the Seps will be skilled at taking out the ball carrier. Even if every Rebel player can 1v1 every Sep player, that's not what's going to go down 90% of the time. Luke/Rahm/Starkiller vs. 7 lightsabers and a flamethrower will not end well. Any Rebel that gets the ball will have an extremely difficult time facing even two of the Seps at a time, seeing as they have never even faced multiple opponents (of considerable power) at once.

 

So do the Rebels win 1v1? Sure, why not. But unfortunately for them, this is not a 1v1 contest. It's a teamwork contest, and the Sep team is more well-rounded and equipped for protecting the ball carrier and scoring.

 

Not to mention that if Grievous or Ventress get the ball they won't even need protecting. Good luck catching up.

Edited April 25, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[tunewalker]

Well, I'll take Beni's post as a "Rebels win" kinda statement. I guess it's a tad pointless to continue when the judge says that one team has two characters that are far better than any of the other team's players.

 

But what the heck, why not.

 

I agree that we should focus more on Huttball tactics, meaning that the Seps will be moving in a group. Grievous is a general, after all. They'll protect the ball carrier (Durge) and easily leap to, climb to, or jetpack across the arena. Dooku could use the Force to tear the arena apart and create an easier path. Durge could shed his armor and become a gigantic stretchy mass that could easily carry the ball from the middle to the endzone in one long stretch. The Sith have plenty of knockbacks, including Force Choke, Force Push, and lightning. Grievous could twirl his lightsabers around a pathway, blocking the Rebel's pursuit. Each of them are also accustomed to combating multiple opponents at the same time, making them ideal ball carriers.

 

And on the flip side, the Seps will be skilled at taking out the ball carrier. Even if every Rebel player can 1v1 every Sep player, that's not what's going to go down 90% of the time. Luke/Rahm/Starkiller vs. 7 lightsabers and a flamethrower will not end well. Any Rebel that gets the ball will have an extremely difficult time facing even two of the Seps at a time, seeing as they have never even faced multiple opponents (of considerable power) at once.

 

So do the Rebels win 1v1? Sure, why not. But unfortunately for them, this is not a 1v1 contest. It's a teamwork contest, and the Sep team is more well-rounded and equipped for protecting the ball carrier and scoring.

 

Not to mention that if Grievous or Ventress get the ball they won't even need protecting. Good luck catching up.

 

First of all read the the first post half the things you mention arent allowed comeback after that. But i do agree in one regard we need to focus on tactics. So I am going to cover each players ability to make a score on the team.

 

Dooku: dooku is the slowest member of the seps team any one on the rebel team can keep pace with him and if Luke catches him he is done fast, if galen catches him he takes some time to take out dooku unless some of the rebel troops are their to back him up, Even Rohm who uses the aggressive and kenetic juyo form should be able to take dooku with a rebel troop or 2 backing him. one of makashi's other weakness's is multiple opponents and blaster opponent's Dooku got around the multiple combatant weakness in melee combat by using his footwork to force the melee combatants to cut each other off thus he never had to face more then 1 opponent at a time and worked to make his blaster fire deflection at a good rate but when dealing with 2 of his forms weaknesses at once he will be overwhelmed. I honostly dont think any one counts on Dooku making it far or any where at all if he has the ball his slower speed means the rebels will be able to keep pace with him.

 

Assaj Ventress: Ventress is fast and would be able to break away from most of the rebel team save for Luke and Galen. Unfortunately for Ventress both of these members should be able to take her fairly well. Also she cant go walking willy nilly through flame traps so this will slow her down again helping to bring the full force of the rebel team on her or helping Luke and Galen catch up. With R2 at the controls of the fire pits the pits slowing her down becomes near indeffinate cutting her speed completely.If she has a good head start and R2 doesnt plug in she may be able to score as long as no respawns come up against her as Like Dooku Rohm with a few troopers behind him would be able to push her back and potentially kill her as well as LUke or galen being able to do so solo.

 

Greivous: the other fast member on the seps team and possibly the fastest member on this whole arena he can out pace both Luke and Galen as long as he has a clear path but once again traps will slow him down as he cant just walk through the flames with out getting burnt to a crisp meaning again Luke and galen can catch up. If galen catches greivous, greivous dies in a matter of seconds from force powers galen employs. If Luke catches him I believe their will be a fierce battle which Luke would win but the battle would last long enough for both the seps and the rebel teams to catch up. If his path is clear (no R2 in the middle and the flames just happen to hit just right) he can break away from the rebel team if he runs into Rohm+ troops on his way their he is more then capable to defend against their onslaught and make the score. But to do this it requires that his speed is not cut down at all by the traps so for ever second R2 spends in the middle is more time Luke and/or galen would have to catch up even burners turning on at the right time would slow him down allowing the speedy characters to catch up. So he has an OK chance of scoring but if galen or Luke catch him he wont last for to long (galen taking him out extremely fast while Luke would have a bit of a fight with him that would become easier for Luke the more times they face off, lukes learning curve and all.)

 

Durge: Now this guy is a ball carrier, mobile and tough he is fast enough that if he has enough space Niether Luke or Galen are going to catch him even if they do outpace him. He wont even be slowed down by the fire traps since he can take a short time of them and keep moving with out being slowed at all. His problem is if he gets any kind of opposition they can trap him in the fires even the support team of the special forces troopers Any of the jedi can remove his limbs or cut him in half while this wont kill him this will cause him to drop the ball and being cut in half will stun him for a few seconds enough time for one of the rebels to grab the ball and run (if galen or Luke they could get away since they outpace him slightly, if its Rohm then durge will be back up fast enough to catch the older and slower Jedi master). He has even shown to be able to be stunned by mass blaster fire and explosives something the rebel special ops are capable of, of course this is again just stunning him causing a ball drop he will be back up and in full fighting condition in a few seconds this guy may go down but it will never be for long, and he has been shown vunerable to electrical attacks people using tazers against him to decent effectiveness until he overloads their circuits something that galens force lightning will not fall prey to and once again this will stun and cause a ball drop. But most of these tactics require the full attention of one of the stronger members of the team (galen or Luke through lightning or dismemberment causing a ball drop or telekenetics in a flame causeing a larger incapacitation at the expense even more attention and time something no one has in this game) or concentrated effort from a large portion of the rest of the team. As such it is likely that he will stay with his team forcing the rebels to deal with them or risk allowing one of them to get the ball and try a break away at the end. The only disadvantage to this is it does cut down his mobility making it easier for the rebels to take their time and take him down or force a ball drop from any number of methods especially once Luke or galen are freed up. The advantage of course being he makes it closer to the end zone with out being messed with and can decide to break away from the team by going through a fire pit that is hopefully not controlled by R2 keepng the rebels from following allowing him to get a point. As you can tell I really think as many people are saying this is the scorer for the seps not unstoppable as force lightning along with several other things will stun him or cause a ball drop but it will be difficult for the rebels to do so, not impossible but difficult. If R2 is in the middle durge isnt making it through if he tries to cut the rebels off wtih the fire pit he will just cut his own team off and possibly get multiple of them killed and any less then the full team from the seps with the ball killing R2 makes it easier for the rebels to concentrate on durge and take him down. That little R2 wil be the bane of existance for the seps. As Litterally every strat the seps have to make the ball to the end requires the little guy to not be plugged in and their best strat requires the seps to have their whole team (droids included) or it just wont work and they will get overwhelmed.... decisions decisions.

 

 

I will cover the rebels in the morning didnt know i would right this much..... a lot on durge I have a feeling a lot of this will be skimed over but i dont blaim you guys for it. lol

Edited April 26, 2013 by tunewalker

[Warren-Stride]

*SNIP*

 

Your entire evaluation has two major flaws:

 

1.) Traps

Almost every justification you have for why the Seps won't score is because of the traps. But you fail to remember what a Huttball arena actually looks like. There is a pit leading from the acid pit straight to the enemiy's goal line. Ventress, Grievous, and probably even Dooku could sprint across that pit and leap up the wall on the other side. Straight shot to the goal. Not only that, but there is a raised platform directly after the acid pit as well. Then, there is a much higher platform that any of those three could easily jump to again, then have a straight sprint down a catwalk to the goal. They won't even have to worry about the fire pits. They can avoid them completely. And seeings as apparently the Rebels will never be dying, there won't be anyone respawning to stop the Seps before they reach the goal.

 

2.) Solo

You assume each and every ball carrier will be moving solo. That will not happen. Sure, if Luke/Starkiller catch up to any one of these people, the Sep ball carrier will die, whatever. But unfortunately, they're not moving alone. Ventress and Grievous will for sure stick together. Durge will be covered by Dooku, at least. The ball carrier will never be alone, but protected by their allies, buying them time to make the quick series of leaps they need to score.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Warren-Stride

[tunewalker]

Your entire evaluation has two major flaws:

 

1.) Traps

Almost every justification you have for why the Seps won't score is because of the traps. But you fail to remember what a Huttball arena actually looks like. There is a pit leading from the acid pit straight to the enemiy's goal line. Ventress, Grievous, and probably even Dooku could sprint across that pit and leap up the wall on the other side. Straight shot to the goal. Not only that, but there is a raised platform directly after the acid pit as well. Then, there is a much higher platform that any of those three could easily jump to again, then have a straight sprint down a catwalk to the goal. They won't even have to worry about the fire pits. They can avoid them completely. And seeings as apparently the Rebels will never be dying, there won't be anyone respawning to stop the Seps before they reach the goal.

 

2.) Solo

You assume each and every ball carrier will be moving solo. That will not happen. Sure, if Luke/Starkiller catch up to any one of these people, the Sep ball carrier will die, whatever. But unfortunately, they're not moving alone. Ventress and Grievous will for sure stick together. Durge will be covered by Dooku, at least. The ball carrier will never be alone, but protected by their allies, buying them time to make the quick series of leaps they need to score.

 

1. again read origin post doing so as far as i could tell was illegal they have to navigate it just like we would in game no bypassing those traps.

 

2. if greivous and ventress move together then combine their info if galen and/or Luke catch up they both are dead espeically if its AND. LUke takes ventress in short order Galen takes Grievous in short order. Luke takes greivous in a medium amount time galen takes ventress in a medium amount of time. Luke runs into both Ventress dies soon after engagement leaving Luke to handle greivous. Galen runs into both Greivous dies before sabers are even pulled leaving ventress to face galen alone. As for Dooku and durge i covered that in the durge portion.

 

 

P.S the reason for the solo was any strat where Ventress or Greivous moves with the group and Luke or Galen arent kept occupied by much of the entire time ends very badly for ventress and greivous as the moment the rebel team takes notice of them they die pretty fast and there is nothing like the hutt ball to get a teams attention. With out getting away from the large battle they just die so in a huge fight where they hold the ball they are assuradly dead fast them getting the ball requires that they out pace the group and escape the fight. Dooku is much the same way except he out paces no one thus he isnt makeing it out of the group and cant survive its focus. You will notice however when talking about durge I did talk about the whole team being their to move with durge because it is a viable strat.

Edited April 26, 2013 by tunewalker

[Selenial]

Your entire evaluation has two major flaws:

 

1.) Traps

Almost every justification you have for why the Seps won't score is because of the traps. But you fail to remember what a Huttball arena actually looks like. There is a pit leading from the acid pit straight to the enemiy's goal line. Ventress, Grievous, and probably even Dooku could sprint across that pit and leap up the wall on the other side. Straight shot to the goal. Not only that, but there is a raised platform directly after the acid pit as well. Then, there is a much higher platform that any of those three could easily jump to again, then have a straight sprint down a catwalk to the goal. They won't even have to worry about the fire pits. They can avoid them completely. And seeings as apparently the Rebels will never be dying, there won't be anyone respawning to stop the Seps before they reach the goal.

 

2.) Solo

You assume each and every ball carrier will be moving solo. That will not happen. Sure, if Luke/Starkiller catch up to any one of these people, the Sep ball carrier will die, whatever. But unfortunately, they're not moving alone. Ventress and Grievous will for sure stick together. Durge will be covered by Dooku, at least. The ball carrier will never be alone, but protected by their allies, buying them time to make the quick series of leaps they need to score.

 

As Beni seems to be letting us point it out instead of doing it himself (lazy so and so )

You cannot jump across traps with the ball Yes, you can jump up and line up for a pass but they can be intercepted.

Hell imo it should be: You cant jump to other platforms either, you can only move along in the style we do in game.

Edited April 26, 2013 by Selenial

[Beniboybling]

Well, I'll take Beni's post as a "Rebels win" kinda statement. I guess it's a tad pointless to continue when the judge says that one team has two characters that are far better than any of the other team's players.

I have yet to reach anything near what you might call a decision. Nor do I say or believe that any members of either team are exceptionally superior to the other, you have misinterpreted me. Not to mention that this is my opinion (in some cases) and you are free to dispute it, encouraged even.

 

I would bring everyones attention to the rules:

 

 

• Do not fly with the ball! Jumping up to platforms only, no flying and no jumping over obstacles.
  
• Do not wreck the Pit! Players cannot alter or destroy the arena!
  
• Uber-abilities are not allowed!
  
• Do not use mind tricks! Force users cannot use mind tricks of any kind on their opponents.
  
• No immortality! All players can be killed, and when they are they respawn.
  
• Each team has a team leader, who are responsible for tactics and organisation.
  
• Each team has a support group of four – but they cannot grab, throw or catch the ball.
  
• Astromech units have an unique ability: they can hack and sabotage the fire traps and wind platforms by hooking up to base of ball holder.
  

 

Note that combatants cannot do what Warren suggests i.e. run across their opponents pit and jump up to the finish line. What they can do is have another member of their team waiting for them.

[Warren-Stride]

Note that combatants cannot do what Warren suggests i.e. run across their opponents pit and jump up to the finish line. What they can do is have another member of their team waiting for them.

 

Well that's not very realistic. The players might as well have health bars too.

 

Question about the astromech droids: do they have to be constantly plugged in to control the traps? Do they go back to normal if R2 is disrupted/ stunned? Or can R2 switch the fire into the "on" position and then leave?

[Beniboybling]

Well that's not very realistic. The players might as well have health bars too.

 

Question about the astromech droids: do they have to be constantly plugged in to control the traps? Do they go back to normal if R2 is disrupted/ stunned? Or can R2 switch the fire into the "on" position and then leave?

Huttball is a game with rules. Combatants unfortunately can't do whatever they like else the game becomes obsolete.

 

As for your second point, yes they do have to be constantly plugged in. If stunned or disrupted the traps will revert back to normal. So it may be the case that a member of the Rebel team will have to provide cover for R2 - or perhaps the SpecForces... but how long will they last?