Honestly. WTH?

[saido]

Reading the PVP Forums I am completely lost:

 

1) Level 55 PVP is awesome / Level 55 PVP is not awesome

 

2) PVE gear is better than PVP gear (Underworld)

 

3) Underworld > Conquerer > Partisan

 

4) Green mods in oranges will give the best bolster (what's the point of crafting purple's? Is crafting even relevant?)

 

5) Don't mix mods with expertise and mods without expertise because it'll reduce Bolster

 

6) TTK is too fast / TTK is too slow

 

7) Crit and Surge are nerfed..

 

8) Alacrity has been buffed...

 

9) We need PVP specific gear with Expertise / We don't need PVP gear with Expertise

 

Do I even want to play 55 WZs or grind all my alts to 54. I've got a headahce trying to understand all this... .

 

Simplify this... I shouldn't need an XL Sheet and an intern from MIT to plan my gear! PVE Content / PVP Content & Crafting Content, Equalise it. Crafters are subject to market forces, scarcity of resources which translates into credit cost, which is based on generating income via WZs or PVE. People PVP hard in SWTOR so why should any game format be more valid over the other.

 

:: Boots up SWGEMU ::

[JouerTue]

me too...i think i'll start with a char and see what happens

[MusicRider]

The thing is that on release of 2.0 a lot of things were not working as intended and made a lot of people angry (including myself I admit) for various reasons. However, the testing was more than pts and the feedback was overwhelming so that BW responded immediately. In less than 10 days there have been 2 patches that have significantly improved bolster which was the main issue. Kudos to BW devs for that. There are still loopholes that can be exploited but there are only a couple, and hopefully will be fixed also soon. Basically if you have good l50 pve gear (and now this includes the wh/ewh gear) wear it till you get partisan/conqueror. If not just go with gear with empty cells. Just remove your pvp relics as they have not been changed.

[saido]

I'm being nostalgic but you know they had a logical premise underneath SWG. Crafting and the Resource System. It determined the values of everything and it had scarcity (decay and resource shifts). That logic could be applied to everything, houses, clothes, space-craft and even food. SWG's character progression system also the same; a solid logical footing. It's glaring issues in retrospect weren't that major.

 

The reason it failed I believe was because the economy wasn't established, that is early players weren't balanced against mobs, with a CDEF pistol and no resources in the market, and no high-level crafters who provide all the goods, a couple of womp rats would destroy a character, for new players starting out, this probably drove them away before the world established.

 

SWTOR lacks a consistent paradigm; it's a single-player RPG that's been given an MMO Lobby (fleet) -- with XBOX scale grouping available 8-16 people and a chat system... SWTOR is trying to deal with 2 different play-styles, PVE and PVP, without giving the players a unified game.

 

Hmmm...

[saido]

In less than 10 days there have been 2 patches that have significantly improved bolster which was the main issue. Kudos to BW devs for that.

 

I get that. Really I do. 30-49 WZs I've been having a riot of my time. Partly because my Mercenary is playable again, and no longer ornamental. It feels skill orientated. It's much better.

 

The 55 and beyond is where I am being thrown. It's more the massive amount of data that hasn't been compiled and an unknown end-game, with a lot of changes happening frequently (which are probably for the better). So we have new end-game content which in a lot of senses, no one really knows the implications thereof, and in the sea of half-baked data, I'm going snow-blind from analysis mixed with hyperbole.

 

I may be one of the few, but I quite like crafting and the whole process of crafting for PVP now, seems senseless pre-55 and post-55 doesn't exist, as new gear can't be crafted.

 

My last post, about models, is kind of it -- I can't see an underlying model here that binds the world and therefore the community; it's all band-aids at this point. If there's a model, then there's clarity to gane-play direction, and player-rewards (be it items, achievements or satisfaction).

[MusicRider]

OK to answer some of the questions from what I know.

 

1) Level 55 PVP is awesome / Level 55 PVP is not awesome

Subjective. For me is awesome. The classes feel closer to each other in terms of balance.

 

2) PVE gear is better than PVP gear (Underworld)

3) Underworld > Conquerer > Partisan

This is something I am unclear myself. As there are no underworld geared ppl we don't know. However, in theory it shouldn't be.

 

5) Don't mix mods with expertise and mods without expertise because it'll reduce Bolster

Self explanatory. In one piece of gear don't mix them, use one or the other. However, with the latest patch this is no longer relevant as wh/ewh is now good l50 pve gear. So expertise is only for top level again like before.

 

6) TTK is too fast / TTK is too slow

Both. Depends on the team you are playing and whether you have a competent healer. It has always been as such. Overall my impressions are that TTK is slightly faster than before but not to the point that it is broken. It simply requires you to respond quicker to threats and in order to do so good understanding of your class and others is needed.

 

7) Crit and Surge are nerfed..

Not sure about surge and I don't think so, but crit yes has been nerfed.

 

8) Alacrity has been buffed...

Also true. It actually works as it should work. A simple benefit out of the many, Suppose that you had a cast of 1.5s and you add alacrity to be able to cast faster, lets say you bring it to 1.4s. Before 2.0 you would cast in 1.4s and then wait for 0.1s for the gcd to finish; as such there is no benefit and it didn't make sense. In 2.0 gcd is also reduced so alacrity is useful now.

 

9) We need PVP specific gear with Expertise / We don't need PVP gear with Expertise

As it is with the latest patch pre-55 gear is all pve gear (except relics so remove them). Expertise is for only 55 gear. And expertise is needed to separate and make balance possible between pvp and pve.

 

TD'LR: Pre-55 use good pve (includes wh/ewh now) gear otherwise go with empty cells. At 55 start grinding your pvp gear and same, use highest tier pve gear or go naked. Bolster will raise you but not to the point of smn with partisan and above. Think of it as top notch pve gear or naked = recruit gear.

[Ineedavacation]

Original poster: Welcome to 2.0. IT MAKES NO SENSE. It's a jumble of poorly designed and poorly developed pvp philosophy that only three kinds of ppl are defending:

 

1) Classes that benefited from the imbalancing

2) Plain idiots that do not seriously PVP

3) PPL who bought the game 2 months ago

 

How can we be more clear than this: It was broke in 1.0 and now it's twice as bad in 2.0. They do not care about PVP which has become PAINFULLY PAINFULLY clear. Or maybe it was painfully clear last year and I am just crazy.

Edited April 17, 2013 by Ineedavacation

[saido]

TD'LR: Pre-55 use good pve (includes wh/ewh now) gear otherwise go with empty cells. At 55 start grinding your pvp gear and same, use highest tier pve gear or go naked. Bolster will raise you but not to the point of smn with partisan and above. Think of it as top notch pve gear or naked = recruit gear.

 

That is actually very helpful & thanks!

[Belly]

I tried to decipher the state of PvP by reading the forums once. *headasploded*

[MusicRider]

I may be one of the few, but I quite like crafting and the whole process of crafting for PVP now, seems senseless pre-55 and post-55 doesn't exist, as new gear can't be crafted.

Although not much of a crafter myself I understand and respect what you mean. I think crafting of new gear is kind of being pushed back to make more space for the cartel market.

[HighCounsil]

Crafting gear's never been relevant to pvp on a large scale.

[Laforet]

Reading the PVP Forums I am completely lost:

 

1) Level 55 PVP is awesome / Level 55 PVP is not awesome

 

2) PVE gear is better than PVP gear (Underworld)

 

3) Underworld > Conquerer > Partisan

 

4) Green mods in oranges will give the best bolster (what's the point of crafting purple's? Is crafting even relevant?)

 

5) Don't mix mods with expertise and mods without expertise because it'll reduce Bolster

 

6) TTK is too fast / TTK is too slow

 

7) Crit and Surge are nerfed..

 

8) Alacrity has been buffed...

 

9) We need PVP specific gear with Expertise / We don't need PVP gear with Expertise

 

Do I even want to play 55 WZs or grind all my alts to 54. I've got a headahce trying to understand all this... .

 

Simplify this... I shouldn't need an XL Sheet and an intern from MIT to plan my gear! PVE Content / PVP Content & Crafting Content, Equalise it. Crafters are subject to market forces, scarcity of resources which translates into credit cost, which is based on generating income via WZs or PVE. People PVP hard in SWTOR so why should any game format be more valid over the other.

 

:: Boots up SWGEMU ::

 

In my honestly opinion

 

1) LVL 55 PvP has changed a lot with 2.0, class balance has been altered, "hotshot" dpsers have been nerfed / altered, game changing skills have been introduced. Some people like, some people dont. I find it interesting but were still waiting on the metagame to evolve.

 

2) No, its not.

 

3) Conqueror trumps all for PvP. Just no.

 

4) Havent tested yet but heard something about it. Irrelevant tho, just grind partisan / conqueror.

 

5) Looks like its true. Grind partisan.

 

6) TTK is insanely fast on lower bracket, the lower the bracket the faster it is. TTK is getting kinda slow on 55, but again DPSers will get gear and the metagame will evolve. No more "hotshot" PTPYRO 3 shotting people in seconds.

 

7) New expansion, new gear tier new stat formulae. Dont worry power creep will catch up to it once we get the next gear tier.

 

8) Yup, whats bad about it?

 

9) I dont understand it. Is it talking about WH gear? WH gear is outdated, grind partisan.

 

PvP is designed to be balanced at 55, go 55 and play until you grind full conqueror then you will see if you like it or not.

[MusicRider]

That is actually very helpful & thanks!

 

Welcome. Just forgot to mention that you should remove your wh/ewh relics in wzs as it is for now.

[saido]

Although not much of a crafter myself I understand and respect what you mean. I think crafting of new gear is kind of being pushed back to make more space for the cartel market.

 

Yeah. You are probably correct there, crafting's only role is 'orange schematics' for particular looks, in order for Cartel to have revenue channels, the high-demand goods (must-haves) so it doesn't become pay-to-win, have to be only accessible there.

 

Realistically, they should remove 'crafting' from SWTOR -- although it's a play-style I personally derive satisfaction from, it doesn't fit in the SWTOR schema whatsoever; again because there's no integration between play-styles. If there was, i.e high-value schematics equal to new Makeeb gear, that gear would be available to people who haven't purchased Makeeb via credits; technically the later shouldn't be an issue but we've moved to a hybrid micro-transaction / subscription.

[saido]

Alacrity being useful isn't bad; it's good actually -- a Merc is a turret / caster. More the point that the game mechanics have been so overtly complicated, I became snow-blind by the debated metrics. I probably will sit down with an XL sheet; as one has to weight many values now -- pending on how bolster effects attributes, i.e how much my gear effects secondary stats in a PVP setting when I'm bolstered.

[saido]

Crafting gear's never been relevant to pvp on a large scale.

 

True. Other than augment slots and augments nowadays. Though I've kept a lot of my alts on a slow-grind to 50 (nee-55) during which pre-bolster, they had a use.