bsbrad Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 (edited) Doesn't matter how good of a runner you are or how smart you are at pacing yourself, you're going to get crushed if you enter the race against someone who has prepared for it way more than you did (hypothetically). Sorry wasn't going to reply anymore on this thread, but this is just a ludicrous statement. Your trying to state that someone that is more prepared than the next guy running a marathon will win. Assuming they had the same innate natural ability, yes you would be correct. But in no way does this provide an explanation nor justification for having better PVP gear. In fact it is quite the opposite, two players who enter a WZ, one who knows the WZ (prepared) the other doesn't. My bet would be on the one who knows the WZ winning all things being equal (i.e. gear, skill, familiarity with their class) Edited April 22, 2013 by bsbrad Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raazmir Posted April 22, 2013 Share Posted April 22, 2013 Eh, or they'll continue to fine tune it til they find the sweet spot. I mean it's all math, and the concept isn't terrible, all they have to do is change the numbers til they get the results they want. Granted, this doesn't help the people who want it working N. A. O. nao! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Desiirea Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 (edited) I wish there was a way to keep PvE'ers out of warzones - then we wouldn't need bolster I'm a PvE'er I've been playing the last few days in my PvE gear too. No love from Urd? *cries* Guess I have to quit pvping now Edited April 23, 2013 by Desiirea Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ZooMzy Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Sorry wasn't going to reply anymore on this thread, but this is just a ludicrous statement. Your trying to state that someone that is more prepared than the next guy running a marathon will win. Assuming they had the same innate natural ability, yes you would be correct. But in no way does this provide an explanation nor justification for having better PVP gear. That, right there, was my entire point. That is what they are trying to replicate in this game by the use of gear; to create the sort of preparation similar to marathon training and etc. Like you said, it is ludicrious to assume that someone who trains for an event and isn't skilled at it would beat everyone, just like it's also ludicrious to assume having the best gear makes you the best PvPer. But it helps out alot, and it does put you up there to compete. But like I said, being the most skilled and talented in an event is also not going to make you the best, just like being all skill in PvP will not make you the best. It's the combination of both tools that is the best strategy, which is what I was trying to convey Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsbrad Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 But like I said, being the most skilled and talented in an event is also not going to make you the best, just like being all skill in PvP will not make you the best. It's the combination of both tools that is the best strategy, which is what I was trying to convey Nope, don't buy this completely. Being the most skilled and talented in an event gives you the ability to be the best. The gear does not matter, if Usain Bolt and I did a 100m race, even if he was naked, (o'er) he would still beat me handsomly no matter what gear I was wearing (well I suppose if I had a rocket shoved up my ****) I repeat, a skillful player will always beat an unskilled player assuming they are in the same gear thereby the reasoning for having better gear than the person next to you is so that lesser players can beat better players. If the gear is for achievement sakes then there is no need for the gear to have stats on them. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFSoupy Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Mind if I posit another justification for gear gap? It helps keep the bads out (or rather discourages the bads from staying around too long). I know this sounds really blasted elitist, and I was on the learning end of sucking a year ago, but hear me out. And prepared for a long rant. When I started PvPing, it was because my guild at the time didn't have enough 50s to run fps let alone ops. I was slated to be our MT and wanted to get ahead of the gear curve for the sake of our guild. So I show up in PvP and get mauled repeatedly. I was very unpleasant, but it was a means to gear for PvE, so I stuck with it. A funny thing happened, I got gear, but I also learned how to PvP (kind of). Being the weak link on the team isn't fun at all. Being taken apart in a few second isn't fun at all and the gear gap makes it all the more evident that people need to work on some things. Fast forward to the past few weeks, new blood has been showing up in droves and it's kind of ruining pug PvP. We're seeing a massive influx of people who don't know what they're doing and we end up with bad matches. On Moco, I shouldn't be able to go 1v3 at their node in CW and be winning the fights or the 2v5 after some help showed up for both teams (we held that situation for a good 2 minutes). I shouldn't be able to take a 1v2 (their natural node in NC) on Azucena, kill one, then the other, have a respawn come back, kill him, then another respawn, kill him before being killed by the third respawn (wished I had had 5 seconds to heal up). And that was all in the old bolster where PvP was so severely penalized. I'm still having matches where I've done more damage while healing (pre-2.0) than most of the dps on my team. Don't get me wrong, I'm in favor of new people learning to PvP, as long as they learn to PvP, which isn't happening. The bad experience of being destroyed while new to PvP makes people decide if they want to commit to PvP. If they're willing to stick around, take the lumps and learn what they're doing, more power to them, but lowering the bar so it's easier for everyone to be there isn't the solution. Kind of like No Toon Left Behind, it's a nice idea, but some just need to left behind for the sake of everyone else. Nice rant eh? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Cyanix Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 (edited) There just needs to be a ranked queue for solo(only) queuing with rewards greater than normal queuing. Solves everyone's gripes and long-winded complaints and gear gaps become irrelevant. Then you just pair according to results, its not like games are around that have good matching systems forever... Oh wait. Edited April 23, 2013 by Cyanix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
bsbrad Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 Now there is some logic behind your argument EFSoupy that in order to keep the flowers blossoming you must sacrifice a few weeds. However, until there is a way to match players in PVP based on whatever metrics you want (Valor, Win/Loss record, Dmg dealt/Heals given etc...) the gear gap must go. Now while I accept that Bioware has taken some steps to remove this by making the new PVP gear sets only slightly better than the old sets (2-5%) which helps in the 1v3 argument. The bolster system in my opinion is under utilized, if they want PVE gear sets to not dominate the WZs just cap everyone stats when they enter a WZ thereby elite PVEers wont have the edge over elite PVPers (via a gear gap ironically). The main problem with the current system is the TTK and as McDermott stated a couple of posts up that all they have to do is tinker with the formulas to find the right balance where people are not dieing in 3 GCDs yet the doors/cap points can be capped before respawns occur. The easiest solution for them would be to tinker with the endurance bolster as this should be unrelated to other stats. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
EFSoupy Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 There just needs to be a ranked queue for solo(only) queuing with rewards greater than normal queuing. Solves everyone's gripes and long-winded complaints and gear gaps become irrelevant. Then you just pair according to results, its not like games are around that have good matching systems forever... Oh wait. All a ranked solo queue would do is have people queueing for ranked for better rewards without knowing what they're doing. There needs to be incentive to become better, not rewards for venturing somewhere you're not prepared for. Nabi, I would agree with a ladder system based on record (valor is just a matter of grind), but then you run into queue time problems, plus I don't think BW knows how to make it work yet. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Raazmir Posted April 23, 2013 Share Posted April 23, 2013 I say again, all that really needed to happen was they needed to keep the old bolster, split the brackets as they did, adjust diminishing returns on expertise up slightly and have its benefit scale with level kind of like wow did with other stats, (not ditch it entirely, whoever thought that a 30% net damage bonus with pinned expertise vs other expertise capped players was a solid idea should probably get a reprimand of some sort cause that's just nutty) and swap every instance of presence in the game with expertise. Suddenly armstech, armormech, and synthweaving are in demand not for their augments, but because they can craft low level pvp epics. There is another reason to do things like make a 55 human character or work on companion affection, go datacron hunting. It fixes a bunch of stuff wrong with the game all in one fell swoop and should really be so obvious. I don't like to be captain drama llama very much but I'm not terribly happy with 2.0 either, I just have a large tolerance for waiting for MMO designers to finish tinkering with the numbers. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts