Kurnea Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 my reason why yes, I know pugging, 5 man cata, level of people is varied, I got it but, I was playing with 4 from my realm, all top end raiders, healer was from another realm we pull the trash, 5 pack, in the first 5 or so seconds, I am dead, wipe soon follows we asked the healer, since we didn't know him, have you healed these runs before? no insults, no screaming, we are raiders, we die we figure out what happened, we don't blame people You know what the healer did?? that's right, he/she links the dps meter, never answered us, so after a minute or so we kicked him So you're basing a hatred of addons off of an idiot healer who arbitrarily linked dps meters when asked about their healing? That's like saying I hate donuts because a madman killed my family and when I asked why, he chewed on a donut. Here's a story that actually happened to me in WoW: Was healing a pug in Lost City, and a dps drops out. No problem, lfg finds us a new guy. A little while in the tank whispers me "Hey, this guys dps sucks, can we kick him?" I tell him "no, let's keep going". A while later the tank links the dps meter to show everybody that the new guy was doing less dps than him. I then ask him "Hey, can you link damage taken as well?" Tank says sure can, and links the damage taken meter. New guy is at the very bottom. Apparently while his dps wasn't the greatest, he was doing the best at moving out of fire and not taking agro. Nobody says anything after that, we kill all the bosses without a problem, and everyone leaves on good terms. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 You can keep distorting facts as much as you like, reality is they will be implemented very very soon This is what I keep saying. Bioware would be crazy to have a theorycraft-free game. People *like* theorycraft. There is no *huge* segment of the population either. Tick tick tick... it's getting closer. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
ironix Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) I found it! http://torwars.com/wp-content/uploads/Podcasts/fan_sum_02_qa_georg_zoeller.mp3 Interviewer: So we talk about analytics and what you guys do on the developer side. Players like to do their own analytics and how to improve their characters. What tools int he game help you do that? Will you be able to export a combat log or anything like that? Georg Zoeller: Not at this point, but it's something very high on our priority list Interviewer: What's the pro and con of having something like that in? What's your approach to players min-maxing? Georg Zoeller: I have no problem with players min-maxing. I'm min-maxing myself. We do have pretty good... the tooltips are pretty good. The information on the items I think is pretty good. We're right now lacking a bit is in the evaluating your performance or your group's performance. Umm what I can tell you is there's no conspiracy where we're like we're hiding this so people aren't discriminating against other players. If you want to, you know, run a very competitive operations group and you wanna improve, having this data is certainly interesting. Umm and we're not against it, it's just right now not in. Will it make it in for launch? We don't know at this point but it's very high priority. ------------------------- This should utterly put to rest the debate on Bioware's stance on DPS metering. THANK YOU! Argument over! Fantastic! I'm so happy! /dance EDIT: I so copied that transcript for use in EVERY OTHER "no meters plz" thread. You have made my day. =D Edited December 21, 2011 by ironix Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MightyAl Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 This is almost as good as the Jedi/BH forums from SWG. /popcorn Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Case hardly closed. When they are in and exactly like you said they will be the case will be closed. Right they are not in and Bioware is very aware of the concerns over them by a huge segment of the population. in other words it ain't over till it's over. Huge segment? Got numbers to back up that statement of quantification? If I, instead, said "vocal minority", could you refute that point with empirical data? Go ahead, I got time. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Colobulous Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 "Hey, can you link damage taken as well?" Tank says sure can, and links the damage taken meter. New guy is at the very bottom. Apparently while his dps wasn't the greatest, he was doing the best at moving out of fire and not taking agro. Nobody says anything after that, we kill all the bosses without a problem, and everyone leaves on good terms. Um, he did come in AFTER everybody else, so wouldn't he be lower anyway? Did you control for that? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SooperDaive Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I found it! http://torwars.com/wp-content/uploads/Podcasts/fan_sum_02_qa_georg_zoeller.mp3 Interviewer: So we talk about analytics and what you guys do on the developer side. Players like to do their own analytics and how to improve their characters. What tools int he game help you do that? Will you be able to export a combat log or anything like that? Georg Zoeller: Not at this point, but it's something very high on our priority list Interviewer: What's the pro and con of having something like that in? What's your approach to players min-maxing? Georg Zoeller: I have no problem with players min-maxing. I'm min-maxing myself. We do have pretty good... the tooltips are pretty good. The information on the items I think is pretty good. We're right now lacking a bit is in the evaluating your performance or your group's performance. Umm what I can tell you is there's no conspiracy where we're like we're hiding this so people aren't discriminating against other players. If you want to, you know, run a very competitive operations group and you wanna improve, having this data is certainly interesting. Umm and we're not against it, it's just right now not in. Will it make it in for launch? We don't know at this point but it's very high priority. ------------------------- This should utterly put to rest the debate on Bioware's stance on DPS metering. Yep. Thats pretty clear. Thank you for posting it. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gun_Slinger Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 fantastic, I can finally enjoy flashpoints without some kid linking his meter every 3 mins to brag. what a blast, thanks for not including a combat log bioware! Yeah, it will be fantastic when there is no accountability for DPS doing their job. If a tank or heals doesn't do its job, you can tell that they didn't and you can usually tell which one, Deeps, not so much. Damage meters are necessary. Silly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Tahana Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 *Your* side is the vocal minority. You'll lose this, you know you'll lose this, and that's why you and yours are so vocal in every game that comes out. The raid-catering steamroller may not be here just yet, but they're gassing it up. Get ready for a Recount. We're advocating the natural comfort zone for the raiding world at large. You're attempting to talk Bioware into advocating a preserve for the innumerate. Here is the thing though.. raiders, hardcore raiders are such a small percentage of the population. Unless BW decides to make the raids casual easy. I haven't raided in this game yet, I don't know anything about the mechanics. But if it is only 5% (which quite honestly is being generous) of the population that are hard core raiders then no, the person you quoted is not the vocal minority. You are. So then your left with the wannabe's who will attempt the content after they are over geared.. pray tell why meters are needed by them? As of this point we have no idea what BW is thinking, or if they are even going to cater to the hard core end game guys.. We do know that there is no combat log.. So do we infer from that.. that they don't plan to???? We can only hope so. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachelAnne Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Case hardly closed. When they are in and exactly like you said they will be the case will be closed. Right they are not in and Bioware is very aware of the concerns over them by a huge segment of the population. in other words it ain't over till it's over. We can still fight for a good game, without addons. I wont stop trying to state the my concerns, maybe BW is able to listen to its majority of customers, not like Blizz who did ignore them. I just want to say it again. A "I am better than you noob" meter, is fine if it is displayed at the end of a pvp battle (like today), if it is displayed at the end of a fp - but it should not be like at wow, where you get constantly flamed by little kids after the first pull of mobs. Another option is, to turn off the addon client wise. In that way a person that does not want to be tracked by addons, will not. So if a little kid wants to insult you he simply cant, as he wont receive any data from you, as you have addons disabled. The true competetive players should be fine with both solutions, those who are not are the reason why we dont want addons. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Yfelsung Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 We can still fight for a good game, without addons. I wont stop trying to state the my concerns, maybe BW is able to listen to its majority of customers, not like Blizz who did ignore them. I just want to say it again. A "I am better than you noob" meter, is fine if it is displayed at the end of a pvp battle (like today), if it is displayed at the end of a fp - but it should not be like at wow, where you get constantly flamed by little kids after the first pull of mobs. Another option is, to turn off the addon client wise. In that way a person that does not want to be tracked by addons, will not. So if a little kid wants to insult you he simply cant, as he wont receive any data from you, as you have addons disabled. The true competetive players should be fine with both solutions, those who are not are the reason why we dont want addons. Oh, you're part of the majority, are you? Where did you get that data to confirm that you are indeed part of the majority? I wasn't aware there was a site keeping track of metrics on this subject. Could you link it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backbones Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I'm already frustrated doing Flashpoints and not being able to tell how mechanically effective my play is. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
AlpsStranger Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) As of this point we have no idea what BW is thinking, or if they are even going to cater to the hard core end game guys.. We do know that there is no combat log.. So do we infer from that.. that they don't plan to???? We do know what Bioware is thinking. They said so if you scroll back up a little. there's no conspiracy where we're like we're hiding this so people aren't discriminating against other players Is pretty straightforward. Edited December 21, 2011 by AlpsStranger Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kurnea Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Um, he did come in AFTER everybody else, so wouldn't he be lower anyway? Did you control for that? It was based on the previous boss fight, I knew the tank from my guild and didn't suspect he would link from anything other than boss encounters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Gun_Slinger Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Um, he did come in AFTER everybody else, so wouldn't he be lower anyway? Did you control for that? Damage taken per second, most likely. I think that is measured by Recount as well as total damage taken. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Caelrie Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 We can still fight for a good game, without addons. I wont stop trying to state the my concerns, maybe BW is able to listen to its majority of customers, not like Blizz who did ignore them. You are not the majority. The vast majority of WoW players uses addons and loves them. They're wildly popular. You're actually an extreme minority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 You are not the majority. The vast majority of WoW players uses addons and loves them. They're wildly popular. You're actually an extreme minority.We want statistics to prove this! Is there an add-on for that too? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TradewindNQ Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 We can still fight for a good game, without addons. I wont stop trying to state the my concerns, maybe BW is able to listen to its majority of customers, not like Blizz who did ignore them. I just want to say it again. A "I am better than you noob" meter, is fine if it is displayed at the end of a pvp battle (like today), if it is displayed at the end of a fp - but it should not be like at wow, where you get constantly flamed by little kids after the first pull of mobs. Another option is, to turn off the addon client wise. In that way a person that does not want to be tracked by addons, will not. So if a little kid wants to insult you he simply cant, as he wont receive any data from you, as you have addons disabled. The true competetive players should be fine with both solutions, those who are not are the reason why we dont want addons. Why are you so afraid of metric evaluation? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TItanten Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I'm all for no meters! Down with the crutches the lower classes of gaming would have us use! We, the intelligent few, need no such crutches as a DPS meter, Addons, nor Macros! Did that bastion of Italian mustascioed glory, Mario, need a DPS meter to defeat the evil Bowser and save the Princess? NO! Did Master Chief need addons to tell him where to aim to get a headshot on the mindless zombies known as the Flood? No! Did the glorious interstellar marine with the looks of a Dutch Model, Commander Shepard, use macros to best the living starships know as the Reapers?! NEVER! I say, fellow gamers, that it's time for our MMORPG brethren to put down their crutches and stand up as proud gamers and play the games as they were meant to be played! They have the ability inside themselves, but we have to encourage them to break free of their dependence! Join me and fight against the oppression of addons and meters! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Skeelol Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Why are you so afraid of metric evaluation? For obvious reasons which involve a face and a keyboard. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Nendouno Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 If the devs don't make a damage meter someone else will. It doesn't even have to be a mod. In games were there haven't been a damage meter programmers tend to make their own that reads the games data and then sends it to a program that is not "interconnected" to the game itself. Someone made one for AoC a little after release if I recall correctly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
GalacticKegger Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Why are you so afraid of metric evaluation?Perhaps a quiet confidence in themselves precludes the need for it? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Bigguyonarock Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 (edited) I'm all for no meters! Down with the crutches the lower classes of gaming would have us use! We, the intelligent few, need no such crutches as a DPS meter, Addons, nor Macros! Did that bastion of Italian mustascioed glory, Mario, need a DPS meter to defeat the evil Bowser and save the Princess? NO! Did Master Chief need addons to tell him where to aim to get a headshot on the mindless zombies known as the Flood? No! Did the glorious interstellar marine with the looks of a Dutch Model, Commander Shepard, use macros to best the living starships know as the Reapers?! NEVER! I say, fellow gamers, that it's time for our MMORPG brethren to put down their crutches and stand up as proud gamers and play the games as they were meant to be played! They have the ability inside themselves, but we have to encourage them to break free of their dependence! Join me and fight against the oppression of addons and meters! I don't think you know what a crutch is... Meters and parsers don't assist players in performing an action. They organize the feedback already provided from the player's actions into something coherent and manageable. What affect that has on the player depends entirely on what the player already knows about the game. Edited December 21, 2011 by Bigguyonarock Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Backbones Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 Perhaps a quiet confidence in themselves precludes the need for it? If they have confidence in themselves they should have no problems with other people having their performance charted. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
RachelAnne Posted December 21, 2011 Share Posted December 21, 2011 I find it fun that I get instantly insulted by the elitist´s here, proves my point very well why I dont want such meters in this game. You are a great help to BW to understand our concerns, keep the insults coming! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Recommended Posts