Maul.

[Jaspless]

I don't understand the point of having the chance to Maul from the front? For aggro? For DPS? The last time I checked tanks were in Operations to hold aggro while the DPS killed the boss. So far I haven't used Maul once in any of the new FP's or SM TFB and not a single DPS has pulled off of me. I don't see adding more complexity to the rotation if everything works fine before the new content.

[FROIDBUSTER]

I don't understand the point of having the chance to Maul from the front? For aggro? For DPS? The last time I checked tanks were in Operations to hold aggro while the DPS killed the boss. So far I haven't used Maul once in any of the new FP's or SM TFB and not a single DPS has pulled off of me. I don't see adding more complexity to the rotation if everything works fine before the new content.

 

 

Its' simply a new component to the rotation.

 

Will it replace a skill outright? Obviously not, Thrash still needs to be used to proc Conspirators' cloak to get you that cheap frontal Maul, and its' obviously not going to bump out Wither/Discharge/etc as one of your big threat builders. But Maul does deal more damage than Thrash so finding a place for it in your rotation will only do good.

 

Of course using Maul won't put you on par with DPS, but claiming you won't use Maul because "I'm not DPS" is a poor attitude to have when trying to min/max your class. Since when clearing new content you're only barely geared enough for, every bit of extra DPS, survivability, raid support that any role can provide is a huge boost (even if its' something role-breaking such as a Tank/Healer providing extra damage, or a DPS staggering defensive cooldowns).

Edited April 16, 2013 by FROIDBUSTER

[Omophorus]

I don't understand the point of having the chance to Maul from the front? For aggro? For DPS? The last time I checked tanks were in Operations to hold aggro while the DPS killed the boss. So far I haven't used Maul once in any of the new FP's or SM TFB and not a single DPS has pulled off of me. I don't see adding more complexity to the rotation if everything works fine before the new content.

 

It's everyone's job to kill the enemy. Until overlapping mechanics (due to excessive DPS) seriously threatens raid wipes, there is absolutely no reason to leave raid DPS on the table.

 

Maul is additional threat, and additional damage, and the only trade-off is a lower chance to proc Energize versus Thrash. To offset that downside, Maul does significantly higher DPGCD than Thrash.

 

We have math and anecdotal/experiential evidence to suggest that moving to a more complex rotation has minimal impact on mitigation (including self-healing) and a significant improvement in DPS and TPS.

 

If you don't want to use Maul, don't use it. You'll just be playing less than optimally because you'll be leaving threat and damage on the table for no reason other than laziness.

[Aurojiin]

Taking the CD reduction on the stun break is really unnecessary. I mean, it's a cool talent, and maybe worthwhile situationally, but there are very few fights where it matters (basically just Toth & Zorn, which isn't even current content anymore). There was some discussion on the shadow forums a while back, and after a bit of back and forth, we determined the following build to be optimal for PvE: 39/3/4. If you want extra damage, you can trade Mental Fortitude for Expertise, but your survivability will drop somewhat due to the healing loss.

Technically it wasn't even relevant for T&Z, because the stun could be cleansed by healers specced into Phsyical.

 

That being said, I couldn't even imagine taking Mental Fortitude over Celerity. I guess I understand it solely from an ops boss perspective, but when there's plenty of trash between bosses and flashpoints to run Celerity feels like a massive QoL improvement just for the interrupt CD reduction alone.

[Rieverre]

Keep in mind, opinions are subject to change, but now that I've played around with it some in actual combat conditions:

- in theory, it's worth it. In actual practice, things look a lot more nebulous to me. I find myself not using it a whole lot, especially in movement intensive fights/when enemies have slows of knockbacks.

- If I'm in any kind of close fight (I'm still in a mix of old and new mods/gear, so soloing some of the new Champions qualifies) I tend to prioritize Thrash and its higher chance of an Energize proc anyway.

 

I'm going to keep trying it out until I've gotten my rotation smoothed out, but I can't imagine you'd be horribly gimping yourself by not taking it and putting those 2 points elsewhere.

 

About the only way it could be made into a 'must have' would be for a procced Maul to always proc Energize, and we know that's not happening.

[insaneric]

When i'm tanking (PvE) i use a priority system.

 

1. Harnessed Darkness Lightning

2. Wither

3. Discharge (only to refresh debuff)

4. Shock (with or without proc)

5. Assassinate (<30% health)

6. Maul (with proc only)

7. If >35 force thrash, if <35 force saber strike

 

This system should give you almost the maximum hps, high dps and decent threat. I think for maximum dps you'd want to cut out discharge and wither and also only use the shock with the proc, however this would damage your threat and decrease your damage reduation and hps.

I learnt this through trial and error however there was also some Theorycrafting on the pts server forum showing the maths behind it.