[RAGE] Cartel Packs - ENOUGH ALREADY

[Andryah]

Apparently you don't know what P2W in an MMO means....

 

Irony.

 

if you have top tier gear, you do have a HUGE advantage over other players in the game lol. And yes, it is PTW. They may as well have just sold them to me on the cartel market for $60, because thats essentially what happened, there was no loop holes I had to jump through, I just obtained a boat load of credits from my RL money I spent in the cartel market, and was able to max out my character, and actually a quater of another in one day, without running a single thing.

 

Hey pal. When every other player can obtain the same items off the GTN for ingame credits... IT'S NOT P2W.... no matter how many times you claim it is. You are confusing P2W with classic MMO free market economy of gear readily obtainable by all.

 

NOW.... P2W in the classic sense of MMO play is when I as a player can pay real money in lieu of running raids or PvP for the best engame gear to be had. Gear that can only be earned by running hours and hours of content to accumulate the required rep to gain said top end gear OR bind on aquire crafted items by crafters. THAT is classic P2W... and it does not exist in this MMO so far. Let me dumb it down for you: if it is a bind on aquire (pickup) top tier item, and you can buy it with real money = P2W

 

Gear that anyone with credits can buy off the GTN... that's called a level playing field for players.... and regardless of how you aquire your in game credits.... it's not P2W.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Andryah

[tanerb]

Bioware has said several times that the Cartel team is independant to the other teams.

 

That may not mean anything, if they moved people from other development teams.

[Arkerus]

Not a solution. The reality is that more time and resources are being allotted to adding content to the cartel market exclusively and content acquired from actually playing the game is being introduced at a snails pace. This is then excused because the content can be acquired via the GTN by way of credits.

 

Crystals are a good example of such. There has not been a new crystal schematic added to the game in almost a year (1.2). Previously, new color crystals were introduced to the game by an individual acquiring a schematic and then materials for crafting and then introducing it to the market or it being bound to the individual. Now new crystals are only available through the cartel market or sold on the secondary market which is the GTN or private sell.

 

There is very little in this game that is achievable by solely playing the game and being rewarded for achievements. You either pay for it, or you earn credits and pay for it. Aside from having to earn wz comms as the only way to get Elite WH gear and Dread Guard level armorings with set bonuses there is basically nothing in this game that must be earned by actually playing the game that is bound to the individual who successfully beat the content.

 

That IS the solution to make a point. Gamers are terribly contradictory. They rage and rage and rage about something yet they do the complete opposite.

[Andryah]

Crystals are a good example of such. There has not been a new crystal schematic added to the game in almost a year (1.2). Previously, new color crystals were introduced to the game by an individual acquiring a schematic and then materials for crafting and then introducing it to the market or it being bound to the individual. Now new crystals are only available through the cartel market or sold on the secondary market which is the GTN or private sell.

 

Ooopsy... http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=6085655#edit6085655

[skiibyrd]

NOW.... P2W in the classic sense of MMO play is when I as a player can pay real money in lieu of running raids or PvP for the best engame gear to be had. Gear that can only be earned by running hours and hours of content to accumulate the required rep to gain said top end gear OR bind on aquire crafted items by crafters. THAT is classic P2W... and it does not exist in this MMO so far. Let me dumb it down for you: if it is a bind on aquire (pickup) top tier item, and you can buy it with real money = P2W

 

Lol, yes, it is. I paid for my gear... literally you defined what I did right here... Irony? No, you literally make no sense, everything you say from this point forward I am immediately going to ignore because you keep discrediting yourself. Good day sir.

Edited April 2, 2013 by skiibyrd

[Andryah]

Lol, yes, it is. I paid for my gear... what else would you call it?

 

LOL... NO it is not.

 

By your definition... everyone is paying to win because they subscribe (ie: pay) to the game, they earn credits as they play and then they buy mods off the GTN just like everyone else.

 

You simply chose a different method then most other players.. I guess because unlike most other players, you were credit poor at 50.

 

everything you say from this point forward I am immediately going to ignore because you keep discrediting yourself.

 

ROFL... more irony IMO.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Andryah

[Andryah]

literally you defined what I did right here...

 

Please read again.... more carefully this time.

 

Please list the bind on aquire top tier items you purchased in game.

 

I'll wait.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Andryah

[ikinai]

Actually, I'm going to say that 99% of the responders did not read or comprehend the OPs post.

 

Hint: It has nothing to do with stuff being for sale on the cartel market or its availability via tertiary means like the GTN. It's about building more and more pay walls between you and the content until they break the user base. Then they apologize and ratchet back 1-2 pay walls and take you for all you're worth.

 

OP you are trying to explain Game Theory to Bioware loyalists and teenagers. Not worth your time.

 

I would explain further, but it's $5 DLC.

 

The OP would have been wise to learn color theory more than game theory.

[iimagiicii]

All I read was "I made people lose their jobs and become homeless while bioware is creating jobs".

[Light-years]

You are both arguing over what is essentially a moot point.

 

Yes, selling Cartel items and packs via the GTN and using the profits to enhance yourself does create a pseudo-p2w situation; but the situation is resolved by analyzing the circle that makes up all of its parts.

 

You purchase items on the CM.

You list them on the GTN for 500k.

Someone buys them for 500k.

You use that money to enhance your gear.

 

The money that you are using to enhance yourself was generated in the game. It did not come from your RL cash directly. The person who bought your items could have used the 500k to enhance his own gear. But for some reason (either he does not need upgrades or has no interest in them) he chose to spend that money on purely cosmetic items instead. The CM is still functioning as it's designed. In-game advancement is accomplished via personal achievements (like gathering credits) and cosmetic items are received via RL money (via CM). The only difference here is that the currencies essentially changed hands mid process, before achieving the final result.

 

This is much, much different than "f2p" mmos that let you directly buy gear with +300 stats with real life money. Nexon...

Edited April 2, 2013 by Light-years

[skiibyrd]

LOL... NO it is not.

 

By your definition... everyone is paying to win because they subscribe (ie: pay) to the game, they earn credits as they play and then they buy mods off the GTN just like everyone else.

 

You simply chose a different method then most other players.. I guess because unlike most other players, you were credit poor at 50.

 

 

 

ROFL... more irony IMO.

 

You mad bro? Can't seem to discredit me? Its alright, its something called being wrong, it probably happens to you all the time. But its alright, you can try to come up with more and more instances were you try to justify, then discredit your own theories, im having quite a good time watching you, and discrediting everything you say... here watch this.

 

You said by 'my theory a sub gets credits' and therefore you assume I think thats P2W? Wrong, everyone gets credits sub for F2P, Before the cartel market people had to hit 50 first, then spend countless hours grinding out dailies, or crafting and selling on GTN to get credits... bottom line, there was no way you could just hit 50 and get ALL the gear unless your one lucky SOB and someone just gives it all to you for free... which would literally probably never happened. Now, you hit 50.... then you buy some cartel packs, sell all them on the GTN, have millions of credits, and purchase all the top tier gear without running a single thing... that person just paid to win. End of Story... wasn't that fun?!

 

 

I will leave you with this... a fresh 50 can get all the best gear in the entire game, F2P or Sub, without touching a single HM FP, OP, running a single daily, or spending hours grinding credits, or crafting then selling and purchasing on the GTN... P2W Bro, its that simple.

Edited April 2, 2013 by skiibyrd

[Anzel]

All I read was "I made people lose their jobs and become homeless while bioware is creating jobs".

 

Well first I think we are maybe speculating a bit that people automatically become homeless when they lose their jobs. Sometimes... and I know this may be a surprise for you ... but sometimes people get other jobs.

 

The point of my post isn't that most businesses can reduce staff and increase efficiency through automation (which is true). The point is that most companies will stop at nothing to maximize profitability. Yes, sometimes this means reducing FTEs. Sometimes it means cutting your benefits. Sometimes it means raising prices.

 

All they care about is that quarterly report. All they care about is telling their shareholders and c-levels that they increased profit. Which is really really really messed up. Profit is not a sole indicator of success.

Edited April 2, 2013 by Anzel

[Magnusheart]

Cartel packs bring in a ton of money so they can actually do stuff with the game.

 

Deal with it.

 

Couldn't of said it better myself.

 

CC market is for pure cosmetics.

[Elfa]

I agree with OP, but it isn't going to change unfortunately.

[jgoldsack]

I will leave you with this... a fresh 50 can get all the best gear in the entire game, F2P or Sub, without touching a single HM FP, OP, running a single daily, or spending hours grinding credits, or crafting then selling and purchasing on the GTN... P2W Bro, its that simple.

 

Really? I can go get Dread gear or EWH gear off the cartel market? That is what you are saying.

[AnArmyofBun]

I've read every post here. It's really kind of funny. I have to agree with Andryahs definition of pay to win. Besides the point that pay to win means you spend real money to have a decided advantage over every player who chooses to not spend money. Just because you skipped farming by spending 60 dollars doesn't make you have an advantage over anyone else who has the same mods as you. Which can be obtained by credits alone. I'm new around here but I'm your average cartel market buyer.

 

I bought a bunch of them and sold anything I didn't want for credits. I outfitted my boyfriend and I in gear we liked with color crystals we liked. Numerous fun outfits and were only 17. We have 2x 41 end and 2x 41 power for him and I. Game would be just as easy without it. It's not p2w. It just isn't.

[skiibyrd]

Really? I can go get Dread gear or EWH gear off the cartel market? That is what you are saying.

 

Yep, all you need to do is buy some cartel packs, sell all them, then purchase the top tier gear with the credits you earn... have fun!!

[jgoldsack]

Yep, all you need to do is buy some cartel packs, sell all them, then purchase the top tier gear with the credits you earn... have fun!!

 

I think you are completely missing the point.

 

P2W... I HAVE to spend the money to get the items. It is the ONLY way to obtain them. Your example is not P2W.

[ikinai]

Yep, all you need to do is buy some cartel packs, sell all them, then purchase the top tier gear with the credits you earn... have fun!!

 

so you can only get credits from cartel packs now? That is news to me.

[JimG]

Is there some point to re-hashing the same topics over and over in new threads? Do people really think their opinion is so much more important than everyone else's opinion that it requires a new thread to state the exact same thing that 20 other threads state?

[AlaricSevGirl]

No, it wouldnt, if its bind to legacy that means that ONLY you have access to the content you purchase on the cartel market, and you would have no way to convert the cartel market purchases into in-game credits.

 

Here is why this would never work. I have to get packs to try to get what I want for my 11 characters. I have stuff I don't want, so I sell it on the GTN. If I couldn't sell it, I'd never buy the packs (nor would a lot of people) and the game would go bust, bye bye SWTOR.

[Glowrod]

I guess I don't see the point in flipping out over it. I bought ONE pack, got nothing of value at all what-so-ever and now I don't have any desire to get another.

 

You're right that it's a stupid money grab, but to keep buying something that you KNOW is a total waste of money is equally stupid.

[Anzel]

I think you are completely missing the point.

 

P2W... I HAVE to spend the money to get the items. It is the ONLY way to obtain them. Your example is not P2W.

 

I don't necessarily think it's P2W either but I did find it interested how diligently they worked to kill off all of the gold farmers right before the Cartel Market hit. They even gave us a special warning not to buy credits or sell credits etc.

 

Then like 2 weeks later we buy Cartel Packs with real money and find a Credit Boom inside. Yay! Looks like they were just trying to kill of the competition. Buying packs with real money and then selling them for credits is a really thinly veiled way to just sell credits.

 

LOL, how about they just sell me the credits. I'll pay say $10/per 1 million. That's about where the gold farmers left off at right?

[skiibyrd]

LOL, how about they just sell me the credits. I'll pay say $10/per 1 million. That's about where the gold farmers left off at right?

 

There is a good idea, just eliminate all the extra BS it takes to get the credits, and just purchase them directly... may as well!

[Anzel]

I guess I don't see the point in flipping out over it. I bought ONE pack, got nothing of value at all what-so-ever and now I don't have any desire to get another.

 

You're right that it's a stupid money grab, but to keep buying something that you KNOW is a total waste of money is equally stupid.

 

Here's my problem with the, "It's optional don't buy them" crowd. I'm subscriber. I pay actual real life money to play the game. I paid over $100 for the game which people freely download today. I've paid $15/month every single month this game has existed.

 

I pay this money because I want them to add more stuff to the game. I expect that I'm going to be able to have access to that stuff. But now I don't. Now it's on the Cartel Market. OK so I have to go and pay extra? Nope. You have to pay for these stupid packs over and over and over again hoping to get the new stuff that my money paid for right? NOPE. Now we're going to add yet another stupid greedy layer with "reputation" and "certificates". Where does it end?