APAC Latency and Costs

[iheartnyc]

Let's get some facts straight. Seeing way too much misinformation and exaggeration going on in that other thread it's a bit sickening. Let's start with the two obvious ones:

 

1) Lag

Yes there is a difference. No, it is not "1-2 seconds in delay."

 

A jump from 40ms to 300ms is a differential of 0.260 seconds. That is significant but not to the extent as is being claimed. Miliseconds. Now, compare to what people on US servers are getting (anywhere from 20ms to 90ms). You are looking at a disadvantage of 0.170 seconds 0.240 seconds over a US player, ASSUMING you are getting 300ms from APAC. Still noticeable, but not so bad.

 

Now let's take someone from APAC with better internet access, with a ping of 190ms. That is 0.19 seconds in delay. Compared to a US player on a US server, you are at a disadvantage of 0.1 seconds to 0.17 seconds in delay.

 

These are facts based on averages and are irrefutable.

 

2) EA is stupid and making a terrible business move.

 

I don't work at EA so don't have the numbers. I do make a living advising publicly held corporations and know how to read financial statements.

 

The following is an excerpt from the MD&A of EA's latest 10-Q filed on EDGAR (Securities and Exchange Commission).

 

"Cost of service and other revenue decreased by $9 million, or 12.0 percent in the three months ended December 31, 2012, as compared to the three months ended December 31, 2011. The decrease was primarily due to decreased server and support costs related to Star Wars: The Old Republic."

 

Clearly, servers and related support costs are VERY expensive.

Edited March 27, 2013 by iheartnyc

[DuckimusPrime]

A jump from 40ms to 300ms is a differential of 0.260 seconds. That is significant but not to the extent as is being claimed. Miliseconds. Now, compare to what people on US servers are getting (anywhere from 20ms to 90ms). You are looking at a disadvantage of 0.170 seconds 0.240 seconds over a US player, ASSUMING you are getting 300ms from APAC. Still noticeable, but not so bad.

The fact that you don't think 200 millisecond difference is significant makes me wonder just how poor a player you actually are.

 

You've also made it clear in other posts that you've never actually played with the 40ms pings on APAC server, so you clearly have no idea on what the impact of that change to a player is.

[Devlonir]

The fact that you don't think 200 millisecond difference is significant makes me wonder just how poor a player you actually are.

 

You've also made it clear in other posts that you've never actually played with the 40ms pings on APAC server, so you clearly have no idea on what the impact of that change to a player is.

 

TOR is not a twitch-response game like a shooter.

Also, a stable 200ms can easilly be planned around when it comes to handling things like cast times and rotations.

 

Bad players use ping as an excuse for them not being better. Good players know how to play even with a high ping.

 

Nothing in this game requires you to react within a second, or punishes you overly much when being less than a second later doing something. So 200ms extra is not a problem to good players of this game. It can be planned around.

 

Most players don't know the difference between ping and lagspikes though. Ping, when stable, is not an issue. It's when lag spikes happen that it becomes a problem. And lag spikes are more often than not caused by your local network, not by the connection to the other network. Point in case: EU players with weird sleeping habits have played on US servers for years without problems and vice versa.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Devlonir

[Nellsterzzz]

The fact that you don't think 200 millisecond difference is significant makes me wonder just how poor a player you actually are.

 

You've also made it clear in other posts that you've never actually played with the 40ms pings on APAC server, so you clearly have no idea on what the impact of that change to a player is.

 

You all will be fine. If you're a good player, you will quit complaining and do fine. We have 3 people in our guild from the APAC servers and they play on a EAST COAST sever. You all are getting transferred to WEST COAST servers. Ther difference between playing those two server locations is significant, if they can do well on a east coast server, you all will do well fine on west coast.

[DuckimusPrime]

TOR is not a twitch-response game like a shooter.

No its not a twitch response game like a shooter. Those games are adversely affected by 10-20ms ping differences. This is a much larger impact.

 

Also, a stable 200ms can easilly be planned around when it comes to handling things like cast times and rotations.

 

Bad players use ping as an excuse for them not being better. Good players know how to play even with a high ping.

A lovely quote often trumpted by player who aren't playing with a high ping. Also you should note that the 200ms ping are best case situations. Not what players are mainly going to be facing.

 

And yes a good APAC player should be able to handle a poor player even with that ping disadvantage... but if both players are just as good. Well sucks to be the APAC player. And that's in the current game. Who knows will be happening post 2.0 with the increased importance on alacrity and reducing cast times. This just indicates that Bioware are likely to be adding even more intensive timing mechanics in future content.

 

Nothing in this game requires you to react within a second, or punishes you overly much when being less than a second later doing something. So 200ms extra is not a problem to good players of this game. It can be planned around.

Nightmare mode operations indicates otherwise. The increased ping, and vastly increased number of hops also exposes APAC player to much worse lag spikes.

[PseudoScience]

You all will be fine. If you're a good player, you will quit complaining and do fine. We have 3 people in our guild from the APAC servers and they play on a EAST COAST sever. You all are getting transferred to WEST COAST servers. Ther difference between playing those two server locations is significant, if they can do well on a east coast server, you all will do well fine on west coast.

 

Or if you don't agree...

 

Sign the petition: http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/keep-apac-servers-for-swtor-available-and-merge-them-into-1.html

 

The APAC community wanted bread!

Bioware said "Let them eat cake!"

 

Save the APAC servers!

[Andryah]

Or if you don't agree...

 

Sign the petition: http://www.gopetition.com/petitions/keep-apac-servers-for-swtor-available-and-merge-them-into-1.html

 

Just a quick note: less then 500 signs on that petition after 24 hours. In fact, it's only moved up by 150 since early prime time APAC Time yesterday.

 

Not a stellar statement of solidarity to retain a server localized in Aus.

 

Now, perhaps someone will chime in and say..." wait... only forum members know about the petition and we all know forum members are a minority of the player base." Oh, really? then all the forum ranting and gnashing of teeth and demanding and quit-threats must also be coming from a minority of APAC players as well.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Andryah

[PseudoScience]

Just a quick note: less then 500 signs on that petition after 24 hours. In fact, it's only moved up by 150 since early prime time APAC Time yesterday.

 

Not a stellar statement of solidarity to retain a server localized in Aus.

 

A lot of people are oblivious to this announcement because it is buried in the forums that not many players check.

 

It's better to do something than to do nothing at all!

[Andryah]

It's better to do something than to do nothing at all!

 

I agree. IMO, it is better to accept the decision made by the game provider... and move forward with it. Digging in heels acomplishes nothing except to give the Aussies a bad rep in the eyes of some players. Personally, I have seen many new Aussie faces coming to Harbinger well before the announcement.. so I know them to be great folks and great MMO players... and I do not personally take the severe ranting in the forum here as a reflection on the Aussie player base. They were great players before the exodous to APAC a year ago, and they are great players as they come back as well.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Andryah

[PseudoScience]

I agree. IMO, it is better to accept the decision made by the game provider... and move forward with it. .

 

The sad reality is many are not accepting it and have already unsubbed due to this decision. The US and EU communities should be on alert the APAC servers are not the last axe to fall.

[SpearlikeAtom]

Let's get some facts straight. Seeing way too much misinformation and exaggeration going on in that other thread it's a bit sickening. Let's start with the two obvious ones:

 

1) Lag

Yes there is a difference. No, it is not "1-2 seconds in delay."

 

A jump from 40ms to 300ms is a differential of 0.260 seconds. That is significant but not to the extent as is being claimed. Miliseconds. Now, compare to what people on US servers are getting (anywhere from 20ms to 90ms). You are looking at a disadvantage of 0.170 seconds 0.240 seconds over a US player, ASSUMING you are getting 300ms from APAC. Still noticeable, but not so bad.

 

Now let's take someone from APAC with better internet access, with a ping of 190ms. That is 0.19 seconds in delay. Compared to a US player on a US server, you are at a disadvantage of 0.1 seconds to 0.17 seconds in delay.

 

These are facts based on averages and are irrefutable.

 

2) EA is stupid and making a terrible business move.

 

I don't work at EA so don't have the numbers. I do make a living advising publicly held corporations and know how to read financial statements.

 

The following is an excerpt from the MD&A of EA's latest 10-Q filed on EDGAR (Securities and Exchange Commission).

 

"Cost of service and other revenue decreased by $9 million, or 12.0 percent in the three months ended December 31, 2012, as compared to the three months ended December 31, 2011. The decrease was primarily due to decreased server and support costs related to Star Wars: The Old Republic."

 

Clearly, servers and related support costs are VERY expensive.

 

Well your facts seemed to have a little credibility until you posted an opinion about EA being stupid.

[Andryah]

The US and EU communities should be on alert the APAC servers are not the last axe to fall.

 

The populations issues were addressed on US and EU communities last summer. AND... people did not quit over it... they have very much enjoyed the results. So you cannot associate the APAC population issues with US/EU.

 

US and EU had critical mass populations that could flourish together on fewer (yet much larger) servers. APAC was simply below critical mass to follow that model. IMO, APAC was below critical mass 4-6 months after the local servers went live .... which is why is was not a simple task for Bioware to address. A critical component to server cosolidation was missing.... critical mass population (and well before people started even rerolling on their own to US/EU servers, so don't blame re-rollers... they simply took responsibility for their own play experience).

 

The sad part here is that EA went on a limb and opened localized servers. The attempt failed. I expect you will never see any EA game localized in APAC ever again. Even Blizzard knew enough to stay away from server localization with WoW. EA took a business risk and it failed.....so they took corrective measures. You don't have to like it... but that is the way it is.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Andryah

[PseudoScience]

The populations issues were addressed on US and EU communities last summer. AND... people did not quit over it... they have very much enjoyed the results. So you cannot associate the APAC population issues with US/EU.

 

Those players were not forced onto other servers where they would receive high latency. The population problem on the APAC servers was compounded by Bioware's inaction. They were more focused on rushing this game F2P rather than consolidating the APAC servers and stop the bleeding of subs when the US and EU were merged.

 

The game is on life support. It isn't the cash cow Bioware or EA wants and any server shutdown is a sign of trouble!

Edited March 27, 2013 by PseudoScience

[Andryah]

The game is on life support. It isn't the cash cow Bioware or EA wants and any server shutdown is a sign of trouble!

 

Only in APAC.

 

We are doing just fine in the US server farm. I cannot directly commet on EU, but random scans of the server list at their prime time suggests they are doing fine as well. Apparently they did not all /rage-quit when the localized moderators were let go (another faux rage-quit event I guess).

 

It sounds like you want the ship to go down with you and your dingy. Not going to happen.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Andryah

[Alec_Fortescue]

I am not playing games if I need to play with more than 65 latency :l Everything higher just destroys my experience and performance. Edited March 27, 2013 by Alec_Fortescue

[SalBasss]

The game is on life support. It isn't the cash cow Bioware or EA wants and any server shutdown is a sign of trouble!

 

I wouldn't go that far. You're not comparing apples to apples.

 

Also, your signature suggests that unsubbing from the game may have a chance save the APAC servers... lol. If you really think they listen to your wallets, then get a petition together that says you will pay EXTRA money for your subscriptions to keep the servers alive. Unsubbing is only going to confirm their decision that they're better off shutting them down.

[PseudoScience]

I wouldn't go that far. You're not comparing apples to apples.

 

Also, your signature suggests that unsubbing from the game may have a chance save the APAC servers... lol. If you really think they listen to your wallets, then get a petition together that says you will pay EXTRA money for your subscriptions to keep the servers alive. Unsubbing is only going to confirm their decision that they're better off shutting them down.

 

I would, if the population is growing why aren't they reopening more NA and EU servers?

 

They won't allow us to pay more money because it would look even worse than it does now. Unsubbing sends a message to Bioware that our subscription is contingent upon the localised servers and their removal will result in a section of the APAC population leaving the game.

[GuruVII]

I would, if the population is growing why aren't they reopening more NA and EU servers?

Or perhaps they are adding server racks, increasing the server capacity?

 

They won't allow us to pay more money because it would look even worse than it does now. Unsubbing sends a message to Bioware that our subscription is contingent upon the localised servers and their removal will result in a section of the APAC population leaving the game.

And why would they care? They are getting rid of what I assume money draining APEC servers (since companies generally don't close down successful business ventures).

I imagine that even if every APEC player quit, their decision would be a net gain.

[PseudoScience]

Or perhaps they are adding server racks, increasing the server capacity?

 

 

And why would they care? They are getting rid of what I assume money draining APEC servers (since companies generally don't close down successful business ventures).

I imagine that even if every APEC player quit, their decision would be a net gain.

 

In a game that poops itself when high amounts of people are clustered in one area I'm skeptical about that.

 

You're probably right. But it doesn't mean I'm not going down without a fight. And once it's over I'll leave. Simple.

[Red_rocks]

Everyone is assuming the decision to remove the apac servers is financial, and trumpeting it as fact.

You do not work for bioware/ea.

Quit trying to sound like you know all the ins and outs of this because you don't.

All they've said is theyre trying to give us the best play experience, and based on that, they're doing the wrong thing.

Anything else you guys are supposing is just conjecture.

[Ultramecha]

If Pings were the issue and not population the APAC community wouldn't being complaining in the first place. Also Bioware stated that merging the servers is pretty much pointless because there isn't enough between all three to fix "population issues". So APAC people are getting what originally asked for, higher populations...