SWTOR is a game for monkeys... and now monkeys can play Jedi Shadows! (a 2.0 rant)

[Majspuffen]

I dare say that my rage is justified and I'm glad that I was smart enough not to pre-order Star Wars: EA-land.

 

I'm playing a Jedi Shadow, Balance spec. It is the most fun spec in the game at the moment because of it's satisfying complexity. The class isn't overly complex, but when you compare it to Pyrotech Powertechs or Rage Juggernauts it may seem so.

 

Unfortunately, Bioware thinks that no one wants to play Balance in their game. So in order to cater to the larger masses, they simplified the spec to such an extent that it is now outright bland and boring. Much like pyrotech! In doing so, they also removed our PvP viability. But that is a fair trade-off, I'm sure. Now more idiots can play the spec for PvE, and no one will play it for PvP! PROGRESSION AT ITS FINEST!

 

Let's be realistic. Even with the 2.0 changes, a rated team will want these classes:

For tanks:

Defense Guardian -- For guarding healers.

Kinetic Combat Shadow -- For guarding turrets and for the ridiculous utility they provide in Huttball.

 

For healers:

Sawbones Scoundrel -- Because they have the best mobility out of all healers.

Seer Sage -- Mobile healer as well, friendly pull offers great utility.

 

For DPS:

Assault specialist Vanguard: Because this class is so ridiculously easy it's hard to do anything wrong. As long as you can follow the targets called out by your leader, and as long as you know how to aim your AoE taunt, you're golden.

Combat Sentinel: Because of the AoE buffs. Specifically the run speed.

Focus Guardian: Because of AoE pressure and taunts.

[spec] Gunslinger: Because Jedi Sages and Commandos got nothing on Gunslingers, with their roots, stuns, ranged mezzes and charge immunity.

 

 

I don't think you can argue that those classes are the best for rated warzones. No doubt there are Warzones running with more classes as well, though. I've heard stories of teams with a Deception Assassin, Vigilance Guardian, Concealment Operative etc...

 

I myself, for the brief time I participated in RWZs on my server (PvP community is too small to keep RWZs going for a longer period of time) I was playing Balance Shadow. It was a fun experience, and I dare say that I wasn't a setback to my team. Balance Shadows, if properly played, provide a lot to their team;

 

1v1: We're a strong class 1v1. Not quite as strong as Kinetic Combat Shadows in DPS gear, perhaps, but we can best most classes through well-timed resiliences and proper kiting. This means we can fill the role as a base defender, when needed.

 

Mobility: All shadows have great mobility. Force speed, vanish and resilience allows us to get out of a battle and reinforce wherever we're needed faster than any other class.

 

Utility: We have plenty of CC. The hallmark of our CC being Instant Force Lift. The strategic and tacitcal value of this talent is so strong that Kinetic Combat Shadows give up Slow Time and Harnessed Shadows to get it (which is problematic because tanks already have lots of utility through longer resilience, force pull and spinning kick outside of stealth). Sever Force is also an immensely powerful tool, especially in huttball. A 30m 2s root is lethal. 30m 2s stun in form of Force Lift is also lethal. For tactical and strategic play, a Balance Shadow can be an incredible asset. This is of course off-set by the fact that we deal damage through dots, so we can, if improperly played, mess things up for our team.

 

AoE pressure: A Jedi Shadow is very squishy, as such we have to learn to "dance on the border" of skirmishes. We can apply dots on several targets and hit them with Force in Balance. This damage does not really rival a Rage Juggernauts smash, but it does come in handy. For instance, if we need to recapture a side-turret, we can apply pressure on all targets and fill out with melee attacks to ensure they all die in a relatively close time-limit. Smash does not have such control.

 

High Sustained Damage (that cannot just be dispelled!!): Finally, we have very high sustained damage. We can kill healers on our own, and seeing as our DoTs are yellow damage, we can apply a lot of pressure on tanks who guards healers at the same time. Shadow Strike (with infiltration tactics) is a necessity for our spec and for PvP. Sharpened Mind (regen through consuming force suppression charges) is a necessity for our sustained damage. We need some setup time before we can be a threat to a healer.

 

With all this said, in team play, having a well-coordinated pyrotech and rage juggernaut will no doubt provide better results than a jedi shadow ever could. But I'd like to believe that our class is strong enough to actually be of use in Rated Warzones.

 

So why am I upset?

 

Balance is such a fun spec because when played properly, it's extremely rewarding. I don't mean to brag, but I often top damage on the scoreboards and people on my server are generally very happy to see me when I'm in their team because I provide a lot for tactical play. It feels very fun and rewarding to be able to play such an uncommon class to such an extent.

 

In 2.0, I doubt I'll be able to, and here is my reasoning why:

Loss of Sharpened Mind, Loss of Infiltration Tactics, Loss of Instant Force Lift, too much reliance on DoTs to deal damage.

 

Loss of Sharpened Mind and Loss of Infiltration tactics:

For PvP, shadow strike is probably the melee attack I use the most. When hounding healers I use Double Strike, sure, but when fighting in larger skirmishes I usually utilize Shadow Strike, going in to hit hard and fast and then retreat. Why? Because I'm squishy. I cannot stand in the midst of a skirmish and expect not to die. Sharpened mind is incredibly important to our sustained damage. By setting up dots on 3 targets in addition with 30 Force Suppression charges I get a very nice boost of Force Regen, meaning I can pound away at a healer without having to resort to Saber Strike. This is how I kill.

 

In 2.0 all I can do is double strike, and if my force gets low I'll have to resort to saber strike. Couple that with the fact that Sorcerer healers can dispel my dots. Not having any hard-hitting melee attacks or reliable force regen is damaging this spec a ton for pvp. But it makes the spec easier for idiots in pve, so it's all good?

 

Loss of instant force lift:

This is probably more damaging to our Sage brethren. They don't have much to compete with gunslingers for rated spots. Instant Force Lift is put to shame by Flashbang. Especially in 2.0 when Dirthy Fighting gunslingers Flashbang won't break on their own dot damage. I appreciate that Bioware wants to reduce the amount of CC in this game... but taking away from weaker specs is not the way to go. Balance shadows and sages needs this. It's understandable that you had to prevent Kinetic Combat from taking it, but nerfing it for the pure Balance spec, for the sake of a hybrid, is not the way to go.

 

Too much reliance on DoTs:

Finally, my biggest gripe of them all. DoTs are important for our damage... you could say. Actually, I'd disagree. DoTs are important for our survivability and for our Force Management. Mindlessly tab-dotting is not the way to play Balance in PvP. Yet, it's how Bioware encourages us to play in 2.0. Our Force in Balance will strike 5 targets, meaning we'll have 50 Force Suppression charges up if used properly. Normally in a PvP scenario I try to keep DoTs on all targets that I strike with Force in Balance... but mostly for the Force Regen.

 

In PvP, the damage is so damn high that our DoTs are rendered a bit useless. Shadow Strike and Double Strike, that's how we deal damage and kill. Our DoTs are excellent tools for, as I've mentioned, survivability and force regen. Also excellent tools for kiting, as we can comfortably let them whittle away at our targets while we kite. In 2.0 we're losing a lot of melee damage, but our force damage goes up. Yet we have no tools to counter dispels... not that a sorc will be able to dispel all the dots we'll apply, because really, our melee damage will be so damn pathetic you might as well avoid get into melee altogether.

 

 

 

So to summarize:

Currently (1.7) Balance is a fine spec for both pvp and pve. Yet its learning curve is higher than that of a Pyrotech, which is apparently a bad thing.

 

In 2.0 Balance might still be fine for pve but don't expect to ever see the spec in rated warzones. Loss of utility, loss of single-target damage, more dots spread around... but, on the bright side, now a pyrotech can play the spec so it is a-ok!

 

Obviously Bioware made the right call here and I just wanted to compliment them on a good job. Kudos!

 

... but if I were to rephrase that without sarcasm in the form of a query, do you think Bioware did the right thing here? Do you think that their choice to make the spec easier, at the cost of its PvP viability, was the right one?

 

Personally I'm sick and tired of them constantly lowering the skill cap of this game. It started with the removal of relics in 1.3, and it continued with the dumbification of the resolve system in 1.4. But dumbing down the gameplay of my favourite spec? I made a detailed thread on the PTS forums, as well as several posts in several threads about the issue of Balance/Madness in 2.0. You know what Bioware did? They bloody removed all those threads, without answering a single question. So much for player feedback, eh?

Edited March 27, 2013 by Majspuffen

[cabled]

well, there are changes going into 2.0 which did not make it on to PTS (fact). So, personally, I would wait till 2.0 patch note are finalized before creating definitive posts...

[Groncho]

well, there are changes going into 2.0 which did not make it on to PTS (fact). So, personally, I would wait till 2.0 patch note are finalized before creating definitive posts...

 

Some ppl can't wait

[Majspuffen]

well, there are changes going into 2.0 which did not make it on to PTS (fact). So, personally, I would wait till 2.0 patch note are finalized before creating definitive posts...

 

You have more faith in Bioware than I.

[DeAlerT]

Oh look, people dont play balance shadow because there is tank/tank hybrid that is just better for teamplay. Lets make balance even less fun, more people will play it.... Yeah, sure.

 

 

I have no faith in bioware. Snipers were fun. Then in 2.0, lethality is totaly dumbed down, no energy management, dots dont brake cc (***????), marksman spams snipe and followthrough like those tracer missilers and doesnt run out of energy, ever.

 

Buuuuuuuut f2p players will be there, to play one month then stop. I myself will see Makeb story and see you all in Elder scrolls, or Guild wars, or single player, something, I dont know.

 

Also, might take a look at pvp time to kill of 80% players playing the game (nonranked) and counter strike. You might be in for a surprise how slow poeple die in CS.

[piSith]

So, this spec not good enough for RWZ? This spec "used" to be hard to play? This spec fairs worse than the other spec?

 

I'm not trying to troll here(i can't cuz im not, in anyway, armed with the knowledge of Sin/Shadows), but you need to seriously look at other classes too.... When did Annih Mara was last used in rateds? For Rage spec, Jug is by far a better class to pick than said Mara cuz of the ultility, which makes Carnage Mara the only viable option and that's only because we have predation...... Mercs? Lightning Sorcs? I mean ofcourse those classes/specs can be included, but there are other specs/classes that can do what they do, but better. Yes your spec got "dumbed down", but it's something we've seen happen to other classes too.

 

How can you compare sorcs to snipers? Sorc has mobility and utilities while snipers can DPS good and protect themselves? 2 coordinated DPS can easily take down a sniper, 2 said DPS might have a bit of a harder time with the sorc. Sorc can move and attack/heal, snipers sit still. So a class that is PURELY made for DPS is not supposed to win in a 1v1 with a class that can DPS/Heal while providing utilities for the whole group?

 

I am truly sorry that BW did that to you spec, but there are enough tears on these forums already. Pick up a new class or spec. It'll be a refreshing experience.

[Majspuffen]

I am truly sorry that BW did that to you spec, but there are enough tears on these forums already. Pick up a new class or spec. It'll be a refreshing experience.

 

Cheers for the advice but why play a game where they progress backwards in terms of class balance? I'm not hoping to accomplish anything by this thread, I was just raging. Butthurt because I have so much fun with this spec on live and Bioware ruins it for no other reason than catering to *********** idiots.

 

Short-sighted developers.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Majspuffen

[Akuryu]

well, there are changes going into 2.0 which did not make it on to PTS (fact). So, personally, I would wait till 2.0 patch note are finalized before creating definitive posts...

 

I would argue that every patch since 1.2 has made PVP worse. At the time the PTS shut down, nobody was even testing PVP anymore. There were a myriad of issues on the forums that were not being addressed by devs. I have very little faith that anything meaningful will change in the two weeks before release, and even if they do change something major there will be no testing on it.

[Rincewend]

I have very little faith that anything meaningful will change in the two weeks before release, and even if they do change something major there will be no testing on it.

 

I have to agree with this, even time they add something to the patch that was not tested (as we know because at least it was not on PTS) that went live introduced large bugs ifnot game breaking bugs. Do we not remember the patches that came out never going to the PTS?

[dcgregorya]

well, there are changes going into 2.0 which did not make it on to PTS (fact). So, personally, I would wait till 2.0 patch note are finalized before creating definitive posts...

 

Every other release that has gone to PTS all of the feedback from the PTS posts (numerous as they were) were completely ignored and weren't fixed until several patches later if at all.

[piSith]

Cheers for the advice but why play a game where they progress backwards in terms of class balance? I'm not hoping to accomplish anything by this thread, I was just raging. Butthurt because I have so much fun with this spec on live and Bioware ruins it for no other reason than catering to *********** idiots.

 

Short-sighted developers.

 

Yeah there's always that, and believe me I feel your frustration, but is that not what all these MMO's about? Player first? That's because player's are paying the bills. In all honestly tho this game's PvP and class mechanics are different from most game's PvP, i mean the right talent tree alone should tell you how hard it would be to balance a game like this because of the dual-class talent trees. Also the skill mechanics of this game might somewhat mirror WoW, but i enjoy it.... I don't know why, but it is refreshing to come home late to start swinging glow sticks.

 

The reality is, any game that has any sort of competition against other players(PvP) there's always a "metagame", or how you SWTOR folks call it "flavor of the month". It's something everyone needs to adapt to, and I agree the balance is not right, but which game have it perfect?