APAC Reality...

[maracole]

Got be honest, if the server merge is to a US server where I get 250 - 300 ms lag, I won't be around very long. It's not just the merge, it's everything the OP stated and much much more

[-IceHawk-]

So in short, anything less than Full Disclosure of EA profitability plans for APAC will leave you unhappy?

 

If APAC was profitable enough to maintain regional servers and produce a reasonable ROI, why would a company forcing a CEO transition shortly after forcing a F2P transition in one of the most expensive AAA titles in the history of gaming over concerns of ROI not keep them open?

 

Actually take a step back for a moment and realize, despite your personal hopes, APAC does not represent a profitable enough market for EA, likely never has, and be thankful they kept local servers up for as long as they did.

[LadyDrusilla]

So in short, anything less than Full Disclosure of EA profitability plans for APAC will leave you unhappy?

 

If APAC was profitable enough to maintain regional servers and produce a reasonable ROI, why would a company forcing a CEO transition shortly after forcing a F2P transition in one of the most expensive AAA titles in the history of gaming over concerns of ROI not keep them open?

 

Actually take a step back for a moment and realize, despite your personal hopes, APAC does not represent a profitable enough market for EA, likely never has, and be thankful they kept local servers up for as long as they did.

Really? You are going to argue we are overreacting for expecting honesty from a company? Whatever.

 

Let me spell it out for you:

 

They are giving us an inferior game experience in the name of giving us a superior game experience.

 

That makes us angry.

 

If they don't want us to be angry, just disappointed, they should just tell us that the APAC community isn't viable.

 

If it is viable, then they should look at other options.

 

This doesn't completely absolve them of responsibility, they should have advertises APAC servers more as opposed to not at all. But it would at least mean it would be easier to take. As it stands it sounds like there were other options that would have been better for the community, but they chose the worst one. Not a good look.

[-IceHawk-]

Really? You are going to argue we are overreacting for expecting honesty from a company? Whatever.

You are not asking for honesty.

 

You are demanding a company provide you a localized service, likely at either a loss or untenable ROI, because you like it.

 

Let me spell it out for you:

 

They are giving us an inferior game experience in the name of giving us a superior game experience.

 

That makes us angry.

If I am not mistaken, one of the over-riding complaints of the APAC community over these last few months have been centered on population concerns.

 

They cannot financially provide a localized service without an increased population funding it.

 

You lack the population.

 

What, praytell, should EA do?

 

Recognizing of course the real-world issues of CEOs being changed over and investors concerned about their multi-million dollar investment...

 

If they don't want us to be angry, just disappointed, they should just tell us that the APAC community isn't viable.

 

We went and looked at what current server populations looked like across all of APAC and to put it simply, even merging all of APAC together into one server would not solve the population problems. Even with that solution you would still see long queue times for things like Warzones and Group Finder. It was because of this that we decided that moving APAC into the NA servers was the best option.

Eric directly stated that the entire APAC community, even if consolidated into a single server, would not fix internal game population issues.

 

And yet you somehow think the APAC population is large enough to warrant expensive localized servers?

 

If it is viable, then they should look at other options.

 

This doesn't completely absolve them of responsibility, they should have advertises APAC servers more as opposed to not at all. But it would at least mean it would be easier to take. As it stands it sounds like there were other options that would have been better for the community, but they chose the worst one. Not a good look.

No.

 

They chose the option that most effectively addresses the primary concern; the financial stability and longevity of the title.

 

Clearly APAC Servers and Populations are not a viable market; otherwise there would be no sensible business reason for abandoning them.

 

 

To put it simply; APAC lacks the population to present a viable market for EA to rationalize maintaining localized support to their investors. You are not denied access to the game, however you have to live with the realities of geography and economics.

 

EA is not stupid.

 

They have likely factored in an APAC-attrition consequence and even then made this decision.

 

APAC was never viable.

 

Period.

[Master_Reuben]

Really? You are going to argue we are overreacting for expecting honesty from a company? Whatever.

 

Let me spell it out for you:

 

They are giving us an inferior game experience in the name of giving us a superior game experience.

 

That makes us angry.

 

If they don't want us to be angry, just disappointed, they should just tell us that the APAC community isn't viable.

 

If it is viable, then they should look at other options.

 

This doesn't completely absolve them of responsibility, they should have advertises APAC servers more as opposed to not at all. But it would at least mean it would be easier to take. As it stands it sounds like there were other options that would have been better for the community, but they chose the worst one. Not a good look.

 

Exactly. I'd feel better if they told us keeping an APAC server/s wasn't viable which is why we've gotten the "solution" we have, rather than saying that they're moving us to NA servers for what they deem will be a better gaming experience. The latter makes it seem as if we could have actually gotten what the vast majority of us want but won't get because Bioware is retarded.

 

If now, they were to suddenly listen to all of these complaints and decide to merge the APAC servers into 1 (I'm on Master Dar'Nala but I'd prefer to go to an APAC PvE server than a NA PvP server and I think about 90% of all APAC subs would also have that preference no matter what their play style is) then imagine how much better people would feel about the game, Bioware and EA, even for the APAC people who'd decide to keep playing after the merges take place.

 

Please, just do it. If it isn't viable, put us out of our misery and say so.

[-IceHawk-]

Please, just do it. If it isn't viable, put us out of our misery and say so.

 

They just did.

[LadyDrusilla]

You are not asking for honesty.

Yes, I am. If it isn't viable, just tell us.

 

You are demanding a company provide you a localized service, likely at either a loss or untenable ROI, because you like it.

No, I'm not. I'm asking for them to explain why they are compltely REMOVING a localised service that they gave us in the guide of giving us a better game experience which is a dubious proposition.

 

If I am not mistaken, one of the over-riding complaints of the APAC community over these last few months have been centered on population concerns.

One two of the three servers, yes. Merging the three was a possible solution yet they chose not to.

 

You lack the population.

Then they should just tell us.

 

What, praytell, should EA do?

Tell us APAC populations were not viable so we can accept this was the only viable solution.

 

Eric directly stated that the entire APAC community, even if consolidated into a single server, would not fix internal game population issues.

Which is not the same as it not being viable. If it were viable but would stlll be on the low side at least give us the option of going with the choice that gives us an optimum game experience in regards to latency

 

And yet you somehow think the APAC population is large enough to warrant expensive localized servers?

If it isn't they should tell us, problem solved.

 

They chose the option that most effectively addresses the primary concern; the financial stability and longevity of the title.

Then they should come out and say so instead of hiding behind a veil of doing it for our own good.

 

Clearly APAC Servers and Populations are not a viable market; otherwise there would be no sensible business reason for abandoning them.

Then they should say so.

 

ulation to present a viable market for EA to rationalize maintaining localized support to their investors. You are not denied access to the game, however you have to live with the realities of geography and economics.

Then they should say so.

 

APAC was never viable.

 

Period.

Then they should say so.

 

Period.

 

They just did.

No, they didn't. They said merging servers wouldn't address all the issues regarding low population in terms of gameplay, not financial viability.

 

All they need to do is come out and say 'the APAC population was not financially viable' and most of the issues go away. It becomes disappointing but not a kick in the teeth.

Edited March 26, 2013 by LadyDrusilla

[-IceHawk-]

The major issue with APAC comes down to the original failure, the miscalculation on the part of EA and Bioware concerning the potential for a continuous mass-subscription base.

 

The thought-process that saw localized APAC-Servers as viable was the same one that assumed 1.7-million subscribers would represent a consistent and near-permanent player-base.

 

This did not happen.

 

The F2P transition was a concession on the part of EA that SW:TOR's original design failed. The media-spin about "the future of MMO monetization" aside, TOR failed to produce the revenue stream required to satisfy the insane level of investment during development.

 

APAC concerns are an extension of this original failure.

 

The revenue-required to keep APAC-Servers localized was based on a subscription-revenue model that failed within months of launch. To their credit BW and EA maintained localized access while fitting the F2P transition.

 

It is likely that EA was hoping that F2P and Makeb would produce a new revenue stream to compensate for their original over-reach.

 

For North American and European Servers it clearly accomplished its goal.

 

Based on the announcement, it clearly failed in APAC.

 

APAC was likely only ever viable under the original, intended and now-failed, revenue model.

 

This is the consequence of a company over-extending its financial plans due to their own hype.

 

Eric made it abundantly clear that, in so far as EA is concerned, APAC population does not warrant continued local investment.

 

The APAC market failed to deliver sustained and planned ROI, even through the transition, and is therefore being effectively abandoned.

 

In short, EA failed in APAC and is retreating, hoping to retain a portion of the subscription base on NA-Servers.

 

This is part of the financial decisions that are setting TOR up for long-term sustainability.

 

Unfortunately, APAC does not factor into that future.

[Dropfall]

I just took a random quick count of all the Imp players I could on Dalborra, give or take a few dozen for WZs, in ships, and other places I didnt search and the Imp side alone is around 280+ players. Add in the Pub side and you have nearly 600 players on Dalborra alone, and we're several hours off peak time. There is no excuse to say combining all 3 APAC servers would be unpopulated and unviable from a gaming perspective.

[-IceHawk-]

SNIP

EA is not going to give you access to internal financial reports to assuage your emotional response to a market failure.

[-IceHawk-]

I just took a random quick count of all the Imp players I could on Dalborra, give or take a few dozen for WZs, in ships, and other places I didnt search and the Imp side alone is around 280+ players. Add in the Pub side and you have nearly 600 players on Dalborra alone, and we're several hours off peak time. There is no excuse to say combining all 3 APAC servers would be unpopulated and unviable from a gaming perspective.

 

Better go tell EA that APAC is financially viable...obviously they must be in the dark....

[LadyDrusilla]

And if they would jut come out and say it isn't financially viable instead of dressing it up in terms of doing what is best for us I could live with it.

 

It is the possibility that there WERE other financially viable options that is the problem. They say they are doing this not because it isn't financially viable but because even a server merge will result in problems getting groups and the like. But if it is still financially viable, why not give us that option anyway? If it isn't financially viable say so and be done with it.

 

That's all I want. If this is indeed the only financially viable solution I will be sad and disappointed but I will understand. BW/EA are a company and they have to make money and to be frank I HATE the idea of my experience being subsidised by NA/EU subs. But the way they are talking now it is like there were other viable options but they chose the one worst for the community. That is upsetting.

 

EA is not going to give you access to internal financial reports to assuage your emotional response to a market failure.

What a stupid thing to say. I'm not asking for access, I'm asking for a simple statement. Yes/no to 'Were the APAC servers financially viable'.

Edited March 26, 2013 by LadyDrusilla

[Master_Reuben]

EA is not going to give you access to internal financial reports to assuage your emotional response to a market failure.

 

"Maintaining even one APAC server is not financially viable" = Access to internal financial reports ???

 

Before you say again that they DID tell us any APAC servers aren't viable, here is what Eric Musco said:

 

"Why did we decide not to merge the three APAC servers into one large APAC server? We decided this for two main reasons. 1. The issue in doing this is that two play-styles (PvE, PvE-RP, or PvP) would need to sacrifice their desired play-style in order to have one server with a higher population. We feel that it is important that each player is allowed to continue to play SWTOR in their preferred play-style. Therefore, accommodating all the existing play-styles was a primary goal. By allowing you to move to a NA West server, you will be able to keep your play-style. 2. The move to North American servers better delivers on our ultimate goal of providing the best play experience, with the most possible players, long term."

[maracole]

So they made a lot of mistakes along the way that made a lot of APAC players angry enough to leave, then they decide after causing so much of the APAC player base to leave, that we're not viable. So they screwed it themselves.

 

APAC is viable, but only if u treat it like it exists. We have not been treated that way at all.......

 

There is more than enough MMO player base in the Oceanic region to support local servers. I've yet to see an MMO company treat Oceanic players in a way that would cause them to stay in any given MMO. It's like they take you on as a novilty rather than a serious business venture.....

[-IceHawk-]

No one at Electronic Arts or Bioware is going to come out and say; "Our internal financial analysis indicated investors are no longer convinced that the APAC market is worth our continued investment."

 

What they will do however is give a nice media spin designed to salavage as many players as possible while the company withdraws all current localized investment and absorbs its losses.

 

Seriously, you are standing in the ashes of the APAC market and refusing to believe it burned to the ground around you because no one said they accidentally left the gas on...

 

Electronic Arts mishandled the APAC Severs and are now retreating from the market.

 

You are never going to get access to the internal decision making process, period.

 

APAC-Servers are gone.

 

Learn to deal with it.

[LadyDrusilla]

Then APAC players will continue to complain.

 

Learn to deal with it.

 

I do find it very amusing that you infer financial considerations that are not even alluded to and then tell us to accept reality.

[GuruVII]

There is more than enough MMO player base in the Oceanic region to support local servers. I've yet to see an MMO company treat Oceanic players in a way that would cause them to stay in any given MMO. It's like they take you on as a novilty rather than a serious business venture.....

Perhaps the reason lies in the fact that an area larger than Europe has the population of Poland (a tad less actually)?

 

I do find it very amusing that you infer financial considerations that are not even alluded to and then tell us to accept reality.

Except for the fact that companies generally don't tend to close down business ventures that are making them a profit, as such the logic behind inferring financial considerations is sound.

Edited March 26, 2013 by GuruVII

[Master_Reuben]

60% of the world's population live in Asia. Why didn't they try that?

[-IceHawk-]

Then APAC players will continue to complain.

 

Learn to deal with it.

 

I do find it very amusing that you infer financial considerations that are not even alluded to and then tell us to accept reality.

Why posters on this forum seem to think that EA is some monstrous beast that acts out of avarice instead of a multi-billion dollar company whose principle concerns are financial in nature is beyond me.

 

Why you are selectively pretending not to notice that SW:TOR is finishing a major structural transition due to immense and highly public investor concern over an obviously failing revenue model for this multi-million dollar title and that APAC's shutdown is part of this, and not some over-arching cop-out by uninterested and inhuman devs is also beyond me.

[Master_Reuben]

Perhaps the reason lies in the fact that an area larger then Europe has the population of Poland (a tad less actually)?

 

 

Except for the fact that companies generally don't tend to close down business ventures that are making them a profit, as such the logic behind inferring financial considerations is sound.

 

I don't think they were arguing against the logic behind inferring financial considerations as much as they were saying that it reasonable to expect that when companies are dishonest, people will complain. That's as reasonable to expect as it is to expect companies are only interesting making profit.

 

Why posters on this forum seem to think that EA is some monstrous beast that acts out of avarice instead of a multi-billion dollar company whose principle concerns are financial in nature is beyond me.

 

Why you are selectively pretending not to notice that SW:TOR is finishing a major structural transition due to immense and highly public investor concern over an obviously failing revenue model for this multi-million dollar title and that APAC's shutdown is part of this, and not some over-arching cop-out by uninterested and inhuman devs is also beyond me.

 

When people feel they have been lied to, they'll often complain. Yes, they almost certainly are only attempting to salvage whatever subs they can from this. Doesn't change the fact APAC players consider it dishonest. It seems you think it's unreasonable for people to be unhappy with reality. Ironically, thinking that is actually almost more unreasonable than thinking companies can be interested in more than just making profit.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Master_Reuben

[Pexalottle]

Well said, Tom.

 

The solution they're going with is piss weak. I'm fairly sure most APAC players would rather toggle a flag than see an extra 200ms in a competitive game such as SWTOR.

[-IceHawk-]

And where was the company dishonest?

 

The APAC population asked for the servers; Bioware thought it found a new market and set one up.

The market failed and the Server is being closed down.

 

APAC players still have access to their content, as they did before the APAC Server existed.

 

Bioware and Electronic Arts are not legally bound to provide you with localized low-latency servers nor did they establish a binding legal or financial agreement to that effect.

 

Electronic Arts did not lie to people; people just wanted something that was not feasible, as many of us have been warning for months, and are reacting to something they have constructed in their own minds.

 

Sorry, I would love to see where, at any point, Electronic Arts is denying APAC customers access to what they paid for, or are restricting their usage of the product within the actual legal bounds of the EULA and the purchase agreement.

 

Not the false and entirely made-up agreements you seem to think developer posts promised you, but the actual binding legal agreement your purchase entitled you to.

Edited March 26, 2013 by -IceHawk-

[Master_Reuben]

Who the hell was saying APAC players were promised these servers would continue? Nobody said anything like that. Let me redirect you to what people are complaining about:

 

"Why did we decide not to merge the three APAC servers into one large APAC server? We decided this for two main reasons. 1. The issue in doing this is that two play-styles (PvE, PvE-RP, or PvP) would need to sacrifice their desired play-style in order to have one server with a higher population. We feel that it is important that each player is allowed to continue to play SWTOR in their preferred play-style. Therefore, accommodating all the existing play-styles was a primary goal. By allowing you to move to a NA West server, you will be able to keep your play-style. 2. The move to North American servers better delivers on our ultimate goal of providing the best play experience, with the most possible players, long term." - Eric Musco

 

If they decided not to merge the three APAC servers into one primarily because it was not financially viable, then why is it unreasonable to feel the above statement is dishonest? That is what people have been complaining about the whole time. And once again, yes - companies are there to make money. That is reality. So is people not liking it when they feel screwed over.

 

Why posters on this forum seem to think that EA is some monstrous beast that acts out of avarice instead of a multi-billion dollar company whose principle concerns are financial in nature is beyond me.

 

Why you seem to be taking the normal and expectable reactions of APAC players to the announcement so personally is beyond me.

Edited March 26, 2013 by Master_Reuben

[ViciousFett]

You guys are making a huge deal out of what's really just a minor nuisance.

 

This game has such small down time in comparison to other MMOs that I really don't see what the issue is.

Servers go down, what, once a week? For like 30 min?

 

I think you'll find large population servers a much greater benefit than the occasional evening down time.

Edited March 26, 2013 by ViciousFett

[Master_Reuben]

You guys are making a huge deal out of what's really just a minor nuisance.

 

This game has such small down time in comparison to other MMOs that I really don't see what the issue is.

Servers go down, what, once a week? For like 30 min?

 

I think you'll find large population servers a much greater benefit than the occasional evening down time.

 

I don't think that's the issue here, mate.