Marauder Maxing - PvE

[arkitip]

Mathematically incorrect? Check it for yourself on Askmrrobot.

Go max power, look at the numbers, then go max str.

It's not that hard to figure out which is better.

 

Obviously you forgot to read the part where I said my dps is higher with max power than with max str.

 

Yeah, your bonus damage will be ever so slightly higher while your crit chance will suffer. The additional 1+% of crit chance is better than 5 bonus damage mathematically.

 

And the part where you said your DPS is higher with max power is the "anecdotal evidence".

[atschai]

Mathematically incorrect? Check it for yourself on Askmrrobot.

Go max power, look at the numbers, then go max str.

It's not that hard to figure out which is better.

 

Don't forget that bonus damage factors only for about 1/3 of damage dealt, the rest is calculated via the level-dependent standardhealth value (1610 for lvl 50) and your weapondamage. As crit rating increases the sum of these three, whereas power only increases bonus damage and thus only 1/3 of damage dealt, strength is actually a better stat.

Check the various formulae for calculated damage dealt on torhead in details of the relevant skill.

[Lyer]

As long as basic accuracy is equal to or above 100%, expected damage per attack can be represented by the function

 

y=( (Base Primary Weapon Damage Avg) + (Avg Secondary damage * Secondary Accuracy) +(((x * 0.23)+( (Main Stat, class buffs included) * 0.2)) * 1.05)) * (((.05+ (Crit Chance from Skill Trees, Legacy, and Buffs) +.3 * (1-(1-(0.01/0.3)) ^ (( (Main Stat) /50)/2.5))+.3 * (1-(1-(0.01/0.3)) ^ ((( (Crit + Power) -x)/50)/0.45)) ) * (Surge) )+1)

 

where x = power. Crit+Power will be a static number as long as you are using best in slot gear mods since the two are interchangeable, so treat that as one number.

 

Use a character creator at http://www.Askmrrobot.com to come up with the numbers you want for your optimal gear setup where crit and power are interchangeable. Copy and paste the equation into a graphing calculator program like http://www.meta-calculator.com/online/, graph it, and find the top of the arc using the table tab. The x value shows your optimal power level, and y will be the expected attack damage from that level or power balanced out with crit. So take your optimal gear setup and go for that much power still using BiS mods and enhancements, and the rest should be in crit.

 

But that is not the issue here, the issue is power vs strength, so I ran the above simulation once with Overkill mods, and once with Might mods, keeping accuracy at almost exactly 100% and surge ended up at 78.75%. With Might augments, my peak expected damage per attack (per attack, not per second, also expected not actual, due to ability coefficients) came out to be 1684.07, or 2526.1 DPS with 880 power being the peak balance number. With Overkill augments, the peak expected damage per attack came out to be 1678.19, or 2517.3 DPS.

 

This shows me that Main stat is better than power at the best in slot level. The reason for this is that the crit % given by strength combines with the crit from Critical rating, allowing for a smaller diminishing return to stack up on Crit rating as crit% reaches its optimal level. This causes us to use less crit rating to reach an optimal crit percentage, and so that gives us more to put into power for larger overall gain.

 

My optimal setup includes 100% accuracy, best in slot gear mods, all datacrons, and exotech stim. This is put together using the current combat formulas from mmo-mechanics.com. Unfortunately, all of this will change when 2.0 hits, so I'll just run the math again. But this is how it is now.

 

To answer the OP's question, best in slot mods are the Deft and Potent mods, Might armoring, Might Hilts, and Acute, Adept, Battle, or initiative enhancements. My target levels are 100% accuracy, the rest in surge (coming to 78.75% surge) and 880 power, leaving the rest for crit, coming to almost exactly 35%. I use Might Augments, as per the math detailed above, and one Elemental Proc and one Power Clicky relic (I've run the math on those too, compared to PvP power relics, if anyone is interested.)

 

These are the numbers, this is the math.

Edited March 27, 2013 by Lyer

[arkitip]

^

 

These numbers aren't exact because they take an Exotech stim into account. Pre-stim the Power/Crit pool is 1108, so the closest you can get is 868 Power and 240 Crit.

Also, those numbers assume a +3% to accuracy, which only Carnage Marauders or Annihilation Marauders that don't spec 31/3/7 will have.

 

Other than those nitpicks, nice work

 

*edit*

 

Tinkering around on AMR I was able to get close to those numbers by going 839 power and 269 crit, which with stim will be 891 power. Takes using Hazmat Ear and Implants with crit, and 1 crit crystal.

Edited March 27, 2013 by arkitip

[Lyer]

^

 

These numbers aren't exact because they take an Exotech stim into account. Pre-stim the Power/Crit pool is 1108, so the closest you can get is 868 Power and 240 Crit.

Also, those numbers assume a +3% to accuracy, which only Carnage Marauders or Annihilation Marauders that don't spec 31/3/7 will have.

 

Other than those nitpicks, nice work

 

*edit*

 

Tinkering around on AMR I was able to get close to those numbers by going 839 power and 269 crit, which with stim will be 891 power. Takes using Hazmat Ear and Implants with crit, and 1 crit crystal.

 

On my AMR, I use 2 crit crystals, and then only one mod or enhancement with crit to get 882 power with stim. This is with Dread Guard PvE relics, too, btw.

[Thundergulch]

This shows me that Main stat is better than power at the best in slot level. The reason for this is that the crit % given by strength combines with the crit from Critical rating, allowing for a smaller diminishing return to stack up on Crit rating as crit% reaches its optimal level. This causes us to use less crit rating to reach an optimal crit percentage, and so that gives us more to put into power for larger overall gain..

 

Are you accounting for Beserk? That gives us 100% crit chance, and we can use it quite often.... allowing us to keep our crit% lower to stack power.

[oofalong]

Power contributes 0.23 to bonus damage, while Strength contributes 0.20. However, Strength is buffed by the Sith Inquisitor/Jedi Consular buff by 5%. Thus, the comparison really becomes 0.23 vs. 0.21 (1.05 * 0.20 = 0.21). The increase in bonus damage is thus 0.02 per point of power. Considering Power Augments provide an extra 252 (18 * 14 = 252) Power, the increase to Bonus Damage is 5.04 (252 * 0.02 = 5.04). Further, this Bonus Damage is increase by the Sith Warrior Buff so the new difference becomes 5.292 extra Bonus Damage via Power Augments.

 

Strength also increases crit %. These 252 points in strength contribute 1.21% to crit %. Specifically from 1894 strength to 2146 based on full 63s gear and Exotech Stim.

 

Thus, the true comparison becomes 5.292 more Bonus Damage vs. 1.21% more crit. My math demonstrates that our overall damage is increased via the extra crit %. However, it is close. Plus, bleed crits also heal us for 1% of our health. Therefore, I recommend Strength Augments.

[Lyer]

Are you accounting for Beserk? That gives us 100% crit chance, and we can use it quite often.... allowing us to keep our crit% lower to stack power.

 

The math does not factor in effects from skills or skill trees, but the damage increase from Berserk (+78% guaranteed damage on 6 bleed attacks every 25-30 seconds) is negligible in the long run when it comes to balancing out crit and power. Bleeds that use stacks of berserk account for 10-15% of bleeds, which are 40% of our overall DPS, so Berserk bleeds are ~5% of our attacks. Meanwhile, the other 95% of our damage still relies on our base crit chance, so adding berserk into the equation does not strike me as significant grounds to shift some crit to power from optimal balance. Good thought, though.

[TrickyNinja]

if you are using power augments you simply prove you are bad. point for point STR will always be better then power... it doesn't matter whats in the rest of your post because you starting off showing you know nothing about the class.

 

The entire point of my post was asking for help on how to max my marauder dps. Clearly I must be terrible at this game and know nothing about my optimal rotations or strategies on various bosses/raids because of an extremely minor stat difference between loading up on overkill versus might augments. Thank you for contributing nothing to my thread and only stopping by to insult me. It's people like this that I can't stand in this game...

 

To everyone else, thank you for your helpful input and taking the time to respond. Looking at the math that many of you laid out seems to make it clear that might augments are the way to go for my carnage marauder. So, as I level him to 55 and start to get higher augments, that is the route I will take.

[kajelis]

The entire point of my post was asking for help on how to max my marauder dps. Clearly I must be terrible at this game and know nothing about my optimal rotations or strategies on various bosses/raids because of an extremely minor stat difference between loading up on overkill versus might augments. Thank you for contributing nothing to my thread and only stopping by to insult me. It's people like this that I can't stand in this game...

 

To everyone else, thank you for your helpful input and taking the time to respond. Looking at the math that many of you laid out seems to make it clear that might augments are the way to go for my carnage marauder. So, as I level him to 55 and start to get higher augments, that is the route I will take.

 

I know exactly how you feel. I was invited to enter a op to do the new Scum and Villainy but someone in the group said that i was a bad DPS because my HP was at 24k. I don't have all the time in the world to grind everything I need in game since I have a life and do other things. I pick up the gear and don't have much time to go BiS. I do my best and play with my friends mostly. Your average group has no problem with me and I always get the job done. Much of the time I am pulling aggro from the tank. I am here on this game to have fun, I really don't care much about having BiS. If I get it great if I don't then Oh Well. I like my Carnage Mara, its my main toon, and I do awesome damage with it. Keep gaming bro, enjoy it and don't let people make you feel like you suck because you aren't like them. As long as I'm enjoying myself then I'm a happy gamer.

[Thundergulch]

I was invited to enter a op to do the new Scum and Villainy but someone in the group said that i was a bad DPS because my HP was at 24k.

 

I wouldn't call you a bad dps, but I would say that with your health at that level, your gear may not be up to par to allow you the dps needed.

Would I replace you for that? Not unless we ran into a dps wall and wiped 3-4 times because of that.

[arkitip]

I wouldn't call you a bad dps, but I would say that with your health at that level, your gear may not be up to par to allow you the dps needed.

Would I replace you for that? Not unless we ran into a dps wall and wiped 3-4 times because of that.

 

Well, he could have easily picked up a couple pieces of new gear. I sit@roughly 32k hp now

[kajelis]

Well, he could have easily picked up a couple pieces of new gear. I sit@roughly 32k hp now

 

I actually have a bunch of new gear, just no opportunities to get BiS. I'm not a hardcore player but i'm a good player that does the job. I don't appreciate people telling me I suck because of something minor like that. When I get opportunities to get mods I need then I get them. Anyway Mara's should have a few thousand more HP now because of the new equipment and extra levels. Shouldn't be sitting at 18k anymore. If you plan on doing ops now you should be anywhere from 21-26k minimum. That's my opinion though. I am on just to have fun, not to be better than everyone else.

Edited April 26, 2013 by kajelis
thought of something else

[XisscVekno]

because your str scales better with the inquisitor buff then power does with the warrior buff as you have more of it. What is the larger number in the end 5% more of 2200 or 5% more of 1000.

 

In terms of scaling and even at low levels 1 str will always be better then 1 power.

 

Right now there is no significant difference in dps between the two. It's been gone through over and over by some of the top theory crafters we have in this game. The difference is less than 1%...atm if even that.

 

Pre 2.0 Power would out weigh str on classes WITHOUT the increase main stat talent (IE Maras/Sents and Sins/Shadows) and in those cases when they hit around 25% crit unbuffed power outweighed str. On classes with the main stat talent the difference was a .01 dam increase between power and main stat.