Ventessel Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Rayla, don't give up. It may not mean much but you have my support. Show these Revanites who is superior! This is exactly the problem! This shouldn't be a personal duel between the two sides of the debate. It's not about "Revanites" versus "Anti-Revanites". This debate should hinge purely on the assessments of the characters that we have. Criticize DK for his writing all you like, but LucasArts and Leland Chee signed off on his novel. It's hard canon until something else gives us more information on those characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventessel Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 He has been hunting Jedi since the Exar Kun War, when he was converted. That was really just an ancillary response to Aurbere's comments on the Order being weak in the time of Revan and Surik. More to the point was the whole immortality making him sloppy with his bladework. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) You know what, I agree with Ventessel, about this entire thing, these characters are very hard to debate because of the sheer amount of ways the characters can be viewed even with the canon available, same can be said of Starkiller and the Playable characters from this game. Due to this issue, I vote both Revan and the Exile be eliminated and we move on to far more grounded characters. Edited March 18, 2013 by LadyKulvax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 On the other hand, we know that Malak was an almost peerless duelist, and yet Revan is able to cut off his jaw just to teach him a lesson. Later, after his redemption, Revan again beats Malak down in an extended duel, where Malak refreshes himself time and again with the energies of captive Jedi before succumbing to Revan's indomitable assault. Defeating a skilled duelist repeatedly after they replenish their energies over and over again....... Nope. Cant think of anyone the exile did this to Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventessel Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 You know what, I agree with Ventessel, about this entire thing, these characters are very hard to debate because of the sheer amount of ways the characters can be viewed even with the canon available, same can be said of Starkiller and the Playable characters from this game. Due to this issue, I vote both Revan and the Exile be eliminated and we move on to far more grounded characters. Hey, I didn't say we couldn't debate this, just that it was bound to get vitriolic at one point or another. We can be civilized, just as long as we acknowledge the canonicity of the limited information available. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Selenial Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 "Anti-Revanites". Surikists? Exilists? None of them sound as cool I always thought it was Revanchist too, and that Revanites were the SWTOR ones on dromund kaas XD.... Whats the difference? But yeh, i vote we just move on... It would really depend on their discussion more than anything, it would depend on who could erode the others will quicker.... Convincing a master not to strike his pupil down and Vice Versa, even though she may no longer be his student. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Hey, I didn't say we couldn't debate this, just that it was bound to get vitriolic at one point or another. We can be civilized, just as long as we acknowledge the canonicity of the limited information available. I know what you said, but regardless of who comes out of this, the many different viewpoints will seep into yet another debate, let's face it, the canon itself established for these two can be interpreted in more ways than are really viable for our kinds of debates. I still vote to get rid of both and make this whole tournament easier to debate in going forward. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Kilikaa Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 This is exactly the problem! This shouldn't be a personal duel between the two sides of the debate. It's not about "Revanites" versus "Anti-Revanites". This debate should hinge purely on the assessments of the characters that we have. Criticize DK for his writing all you like, but LucasArts and Leland Chee signed off on his novel. It's hard canon until something else gives us more information on those characters. Do not tell me how things work. I know all too well how the canon system works. But Drew clearly shows his bias against Surik in the novel and that should not have been the case. Which why I would like to see it removed from canon and lore and someone else, with no investment in either character, write the novel. My Revanite comment was a joke. Nothing personal was intended. Things are so heated over this that I just tried to put a bit of humor into the thread. As I stated before, I wish I could be of more help to Rayla, but my knowledge of both characters is limited compared to hers. What I DO know, however, leads me to believe that Surik would defeat Revan. The longer the battle lasts the better her chances get. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventessel Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I know what you said, but regardless of who comes out of this, the many different viewpoints will seep into yet another debate, let's face it, the canon itself established for these two can be interpreted in more ways than are really viable for our kinds of debates. I still vote to get rid of both and make this whole tournament easier to debate in going forward. We'll leave that vote up to Aurbere, it's his tournament. However, even the strongest interpretation of Surik still only gives her a fighting chance against Revan. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 I don't really have the luxury to eliminate both of them, as that would force me to remove another pair to make the brackets even. Maybe I made a bad decision pitting these two against each other. How about I remove these two and replace them? Then we can restart this whole thing. Sound good? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I don't really have the luxury to eliminate both of them, as that would force me to remove another pair to make the brackets even. Maybe I made a bad decision pitting these two against each other. How about I remove these two and replace them? Then we can restart this whole thing. Sound good? That would be better, I have a character to put in if you want suggestions. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 That would be better, I have a character to put in if you want suggestions. Suggestions would be welcome. I have been considering Nomi Sunrider or Lord Scourge. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Nomi Sunrider. Typical you'd be thinking what I'd be thinking. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) I can't really think of any other good one, that has something on them other then Nomi....though if you wanna make it even. You can just remove the ones, that have vague information. Edited March 18, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Typical you'd be thinking what I'd be thinking. So who would make a good match-up for her? I had considered her for the tournament before, but I couldn't really think of someone to make a good match with her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) Lomi Plo, she'd be very interesting. *trollface* Edited March 18, 2013 by LadyKulvax Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkondo Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) Wow I go away for a bit and then I realize that Ive been left in the dust, anyway. A>B, B>C, so A>C yeah i know that isnt necesarily true (Anakin, Obi-Wan, Dooku) but it is if one party is overwhelmingly more powerful than one side (Yoda>Dooku, Dooku>Ventress, Yoda>Ventress) then it can be. Tha being said in a duel with Nyriss (which is the only real duel they have vs. a common foe that we can judge canonically) Surik with the help of Scourge got destroyed utterly, completely, and easily in both saber skill and the force. Revan OP'd all of Nyriss' power easily. Its not like Anakin, Obi-Wan, and Dooku where Anakin was just easily stronger than Dooku, Yes you could argue that Dooku was easily stronger than Obi-Wan, but he wasnt outclased by Anakin. Revan easily > Nyriss while she easily > Meetra and Scourge. There was no close calls on any of these clashes, one side clearly dominated the other in power. I find yes ABC logic doesnt apply to most duels since most are close calls, but I do find ABC logic to be a lot more applicable in terms of absolute victories. Since there were no close calls on either duel then its clearly obvious on who is stronger with the force. That being Revan, and his lightning and storms are much stronger than Nyriss's which Surik with help got easily overwhelmed by. If she cant handle Nyriss's lightning what would make you think that she could handle Revan's in a duel? Edited March 18, 2013 by Darkondo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkondo Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 I don't really have the luxury to eliminate both of them, as that would force me to remove another pair to make the brackets even. Maybe I made a bad decision pitting these two against each other. How about I remove these two and replace them? Then we can restart this whole thing. Sound good? I had suggested that you removed them from the start, but consider this preseason for what is to come. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) Edit: Well nvrm...I guess she could be ok. Edited March 18, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 Not entirely sure it would be wise, to put a person who was able to fight against GM Luke. There are a few others in there, balances it out with the other three. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted March 18, 2013 Author Share Posted March 18, 2013 Lomi Plo, she'd be very interesting. *trollface* She would be, but who to pit her against? She tested Luke on multiple occasions. With the set-up of the brackets, she would have to face Nomi, Vitiate or Exar Kun. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Darkondo Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 (edited) She would be, but who to pit her against? She tested Luke on multiple occasions. With the set-up of the brackets, she would have to face Nomi, Vitiate or Exar Kun. Ki-Adi-Mundi?, or maybe Marka Ragnos, his spirit controlling a body seemed to be good at saber combat with Jaden Korr. I mean Ragnos when hes controlling whatever body he controlled, its been such a long time since ive played Jedi Academy and Outcast Edited March 18, 2013 by Darkondo Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LadyKulvax Posted March 18, 2013 Share Posted March 18, 2013 She would be, but who to pit her against? She tested Luke on multiple occasions. With the set-up of the brackets, she would have to face Nomi, Vitiate or Exar Kun. Random process of elimination? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventessel Posted March 19, 2013 Share Posted March 19, 2013 Give Tulak Hord a chance! Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Aurbere Posted March 19, 2013 Author Share Posted March 19, 2013 OK, so Nomi Sunrider is confirmed, but I'm still hesitant on Lomi Plo. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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