The BattleZone! Round 1 Match 01: Revan vs. Meetra Surik

[Wolfninjajedi]

Did you watch the movies, which are considered absolute canon that overrules G-canon from the novelization. Sidious put everything he had into the lightning he used against Yoda, and when Yoda caught it his face dropped and he was actually scared. Also during there saber fight Sidious was also getting frustrated that he was unable to overcome Yoda.

 

"If so powerful you are, why leave?" -Yoda

 

If Sidious really won the fight from before the start of the fight like the novelization says, then why did he try to run? Movies>Novelization.

 

Movies = Novelizations, they are equal in terms of their standing.

[LadyKulvax]

Did you watch the movies, which are considered absolute canon that overrules G-canon from the novelization. Sidious put everything he had into the lightning he used against Yoda, and when Yoda caught it his face dropped and he was actually scared. Also during there saber fight Sidious was also getting frustrated that he was unable to overcome Yoda.

 

"If so powerful you are, why leave?" -Yoda

 

If Sidious really won the fight from before the start of the fight like the novelization says, then why did he try to run? Movies>Novelization.

 

Your own interpretation of events in the movie =/= Canon.

 

The novelization does not in any way, shape or form contradict the movie scene, only expands upon it, it is accepted as canon that Darth Sidious is far more powerful than Yoda is for numerous reasons.

 

Canon, as in, not debatable.

[Darkondo]

What? No he isn't, he barely won against Vader.

 

He STILL won, both him and his clone beat Vader. They were relatively even in power and Starkiller won, if he was weaker than he would have lost, regardless of overconfidence of Vader's part. Overconfidence has a bit of a factor in the 1st fight i can give you that, but the 2nd? thats when the overconfidence excuse loses its weight.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Darkondo

[Wolfninjajedi]

He STILL won, both him and his clone beat Vader. They were relatively even in power and Starkiller won, if he was weaker than he would have lost, regardless of overconfidence of Vader's part. Overconfidence has a bit of a factor in the 1st fight i can give you that, but the 2nd? thats when the overconfidence excuse loses its weight.

 

The 2nd, Vader was fighting disinterested and wasn't giving his all. But anyway lets get back to the main focus here of this battle.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi

[LadyKulvax]

He STILL won, both him and his clone beat Vader. They were relatively even in power and Starkiller won, if he was weaker than he would have lost, regardless of overconfidence of Vader's part. Overconfidence has a bit of a factor in the 1st fight i can give you that, but the 2nd? thats when the overconfidence excuse loses its weight.

 

Through the novels, we know that in the first duel Vader was totally disinterested in the battle itself and didn't want to kill Starkiller because that was never the point, in the second duel Vader is trying to convince him to give up his love for Juno and dismiss it as a dead man's memories and even when Vader does go down, he isn't down for very long is he? he just gives up.

[Beniboybling]

Firstly let me say that saying, oh Revan only beat Mandalore and Malak while Surik beat 'blah blah blah' is a moot point. Because we have nothing to compare it with. Just because Revan didn't have a wealth of powerful opponents to thrash doesn't mean he couldn't defeat them, we are going to need some direct comparison. (Although people forget the part where he went toe-to-toe with the Emperor) But what Revan has going for him:

 

 

• Revan has the advantage of being able to wield both the light side and the dark side and even use them simultaneously like he did against the Emperor. Not only this but it makes him highly unpredictable. This is power Meetra has never experienced.
   
   
  
• He was extremely skilled in telekinesis, and in the Jedi Enclave their are plenty of objects that can be hurled at Surik. I mean do we remember the Foundry were Revan bombarded his attackers with space rocks? This also gives him an edge in terms of Force grip, choke, whirlwind, saber throw etc.
   
   
  
• Revan was skilled in Force healing, both of the light side and more importantly the dark - he could literally leech of Meetra's energies during battle to restore his own.
  

 

And now for some comparisons:

 

Meetra stormed Malachor V and defeated its many Sith inhabitants, however many if not all of these inhabitants had been trained to leech of the Force energy of others to make themselves stronger. Much like Nihilus, they would have used this ability against Meetra and found it had the opposite effect, draining their power instead. In a nutshell it made them harder to kill.

 

Revan on the other hand stormed the Star Forge (which is far larger) and defeated legions of elite troopers, battle droids and then defeated three dark side apprentices. Before defeating Malak who was empowered greatly by the Star Forge's power. All of these fighters were at peak strength.

 

Let's also not forget that time when Revan stormed the Sith Academy on Korriban and slaughtered everyone inside, were talking Sith on par with the likes of the Trayus Academy except not drained of their power but empowered by the power of the dark side.

 

Moving on:

 

For all of you who have read the Revan novel you'll know of the incident with Darth Nyriss and Revan. However what seems to have slipped everyone's minds is that prior to Revan's intervention both Meetra and Scourge were defeated easily by Nyriss. And who is it who saves them? Revan, who effortlessly deflects her Force lightning and redirects it back at them. Yes he was using her own power against them but it is a testament to his abilities that he could absorb that lightning in the first place. And if Meetra is more powerful than Revan, how come she failed to defeat Nyriss.

 

Let's also remember this is the Meetra who viewed Revan as the most powerful person she had ever met (in the Revan novel, height of his power, height of hers), as did pretty much everyone else who met him.

 

I think Revan will win this because he is simply more powerful.

[Darkondo]

The 2nd, Vader was fighting disinterested and wasn't giving his all.

 

Losing twice to relatively the same opponent is no real excuse, Vader was overcofident in many battles and still won them, the point im making is that it takes about as much if not more amount of FP to redirect lightning via tutamis then it is to dish out lightning via tutamis.

Edited March 18, 2013 by Darkondo

[Darkondo]

Firstly let me say that saying, oh Revan only beat Mandalore and Malak while Surik beat 'blah blah blah' is a moot point. Because we have nothing to compare it with. Just because Revan didn't have a wealth of powerful opponents to thrash doesn't mean he couldn't defeat them, we are going to need some direct comparison. (Although people forget the part where he went toe-to-toe with the Emperor) But what Revan has going for him:

 

 

• Revan has the advantage of being able to wield both the light side and the dark side and even use them simultaneously like he did against the Emperor. Not only this but it makes him highly unpredictable. This is power Meetra has never experienced.
   
   
  
• He was extremely skilled in telekinesis, and in the Jedi Enclave their are plenty of objects that can be hurled at Surik. I mean do we remember the Foundry were Revan bombarded his attackers with space rocks? This also gives him an edge in terms of Force grip, choke, whirlwind, saber throw etc.
   
   
  
• Revan was skilled in Force healing, both of the light side and more importantly the dark - he could literally leech of Meetra's energies during battle to restore his own.
  

 

And now for some comparisons:

 

Meetra stormed Malachor V and defeated its many Sith inhabitants, however many if not all of these inhabitants had been trained to leech of the Force energy of others to make themselves stronger. Much like Nihilus, they would have used this ability against Meetra and found it had the opposite effect, draining their power instead. In a nutshell it made them harder to kill.

 

Revan on the other hand stormed the Star Forge (which is far larger) and defeated legions of elite troopers, battle droids and then defeated three dark side apprentices. Before defeating Malak who was empowered greatly by the Star Forge's power. All of these fighters were at peak strength.

 

Let's also not forget that time when Revan stormed the Sith Academy on Korriban and slaughtered everyone inside, were talking Sith on par with the likes of the Trayus Academy except not drained of their power but empowered by the power of the dark side.

 

Moving on:

 

For all of you who have read the Revan novel you'll know of the incident with Darth Nyriss and Revan. However what seems to have slipped everyone's minds is that prior to Revan's intervention both Meetra and Scourge were defeated easily by Nyriss. And who is it who saves them? Revan, who effortlessly deflects her Force lightning and redirects it back at them. Yes he was using her own power against them but it is a testament to his abilities that he could absorb that lightning in the first place. And if Meetra is more powerful than Revan, how come she failed to defeat Nyriss.

 

Let's also remember this is the Meetra who viewed Revan as the most powerful person she had ever met (in the Revan novel, height of his power, height of hers), as did pretty much everyone else who met him.

 

I think Revan will win this because he is simply more powerful.

 

^this

[Beniboybling]

Please see my earlier Yoda vs Sidious example, Sidious is way beyond Yoda, but Yoda uses Tutaminis against him twice regardless.

Sorry, what? Where is your evidence of this? I was of the belief they were equal in power, I was also of the understanding that using tutaminis requires some level of ability in the Force. Reflecting one's lightning back at them is an impressive feat indeed. Something Yoda never did.

 

P.S. It was not a bolt of lightning Revan deflected, it was a storm.

[Darkondo]

Sorry, what? Where is your evidence of this? I was of the belief they were equal in power, I was also of the understanding that using tutaminis requires some level of ability in the Force. Reflecting one's lightning back at them is an impressive feat indeed. Something Yoda never did.

 

P.S. It was not a bolt of lightning Revan deflected, it was a storm.

 

They got it from the ROTS novelization heads up.

[LadyKulvax]

Firstly let me say that saying, oh Revan only beat Mandalore and Malak while Surik beat 'blah blah blah' is a moot point. Because we have nothing to compare it with. Just because Revan didn't have a wealth of powerful opponents to thrash doesn't mean he couldn't defeat them, we are going to need some direct comparison. (Although people forget the part where he went toe-to-toe with the Emperor) But what Revan has going for him:

 

 

• Revan has the advantage of being able to wield both the light side and the dark side and even use them simultaneously like he did against the Emperor. Not only this but it makes him highly unpredictable. This is power Meetra has never experienced.
   
   
   
  
• He was extremely skilled in telekinesis, and in the Jedi Enclave their are plenty of objects that can be hurled at Surik. I mean do we remember the Foundry were Revan bombarded his attackers with space rocks? This also gives him an edge in terms of Force grip, choke, whirlwind, saber throw etc.
   
   
  
• Revan was skilled in Force healing, both of the light side and more importantly the dark - he could literally leech of Meetra's energies during battle to restore his own.
  

 

And now for some comparisons:

 

Meetra stormed Malachor V and defeated its many Sith inhabitants, however many if not all of these inhabitants had been trained to leech of the Force energy of others to make themselves stronger. Much like Nihilus, they would have used this ability against Meetra and found it had the opposite effect, draining their power instead. In a nutshell it made them harder to kill.

 

Revan on the other hand stormed the Star Forge (which is far larger) and defeated legions of elite troopers, battle droids and then defeated three dark side apprentices. Before defeating Malak who was empowered greatly by the Star Forge's power. All of these fighters were at peak strength.

 

Let's also not forget that time when Revan stormed the Sith Academy on Korriban and slaughtered everyone inside, were talking Sith on par with the likes of the Trayus Academy except not drained of their power but empowered by the power of the dark side.

 

Moving on:

 

For all of you who have read the Revan novel you'll know of the incident with Darth Nyriss and Revan. However what seems to have slipped everyone's minds is that prior to Revan's intervention both Meetra and Scourge were defeated easily by Nyriss. And who is it who saves them? Revan, who effortlessly deflects her Force lightning and redirects it back at them. Yes he was using her own power against them but it is a testament to his abilities that he could absorb that lightning in the first place. And if Meetra is more powerful than Revan, how come she failed to defeat Nyriss.

 

Let's also remember this is the Meetra who viewed Revan as the most powerful person she had ever met (in the Revan novel, height of his power, height of hers), as did pretty much everyone else who met him.

 

I think Revan will win this because he is simply more powerful.

 

1.Moment of oneness, it is word of god IMPOSSIBLE to use both sides of the force at the same time, switch between them at times of need like Revan does? sure, use them at the same time? not possible.

2.That is an assumption, only the assassins were trained to do such, the marauders and sith lords could have learned from many other sources, you also forget that right up till the droid section, Revan had his companions and then when he did go solo, Bastila was using Battle Meditation, which counter acts Malak's use of the star forge, Surik had no such help and was solo the whole time AND she was ill due to the dark side nexus, which is also enhancing all the Sith.

3.Revan caught Nyriss mid-build up of her most powerful and uncontrollable ability and then directed it back at her, killing her with her own power.

4.See my comment on where Revan totally dismisses what she says.

[Ventessel]

Please see my earlier Yoda vs Sidious example, Sidious is way beyond Yoda, but Yoda uses Tutaminis against him twice regardless.

 

There is very little evidence to indicate that Sidious is "way beyond Yoda", simply that he eventually defeats him after a protracted battle. Yoda's ability to deflect his lightning attacks, if anything, indicates a rough parity in ability with the Force (at least as far a lightning is concerned, in and of itself that's not a definitive indication of Force power).

 

Additionally, there is nothing suggesting that Surik can sever connection to the Force mid-combat. If that were possible, why didn't she just cut Scourge or Nyriss off from the Force? This ability has never been shown to work on someone who is resisting its use, unless they are absolutely overpowered.

 

Force Enlightenment? That's not even a real ability, simply a game mechanic that allows several defensive powers to be used in conjunction.

[Beniboybling]

Awww.... Poor you... It seems your dellusional

Old? Well past her prime? Dude.... This is Darth Traya. Besides, "Old and well past her time" has happened to some of the best Jedi/Sith in history. It seems people just get stronger in the force with age, look at Yoda for example, that dude was 900 years old and the greatest Jedi in the Order.... Dont forget Surik defeated Nihilus, who would have managed to go unchallenged through the Galaxy if not for her, AND she managed to beat Sion, an expert duelist, multiple times in single combat before managing to convince him to let the darkness go.

This point is moot, we have no reason to believe that Revan could not have done the same thing. But for the record, Surik only managed to defeat Nihilus because she was a wound in the Force. And even after pulling that trick she needed Mandalore and Visas to help bring him down and needed Visas to weaken him through her bond. In any other situation, Nihilus would have wiped the floor with Meetra.

 

P.S. Kreia regarded the Exile as the greatest student she had ever trained, but Revan had not reached his full power once his training with Kreia was complete, far from it.

[Beniboybling]

She can remove his connection to the force, how's that for an arsenal?

She did that accidentally if I recall, at the Battle of Malachor V.

[LadyKulvax]

There is very little evidence to indicate that Sidious is "way beyond Yoda", simply that he eventually defeats him after a protracted battle. Yoda's ability to deflect his lightning attacks, if anything, indicates a rough parity in ability with the Force (at least as far a lightning is concerned, in and of itself that's not a definitive indication of Force power).

 

The RotS novel confirms without a doubt that Yoda is barely hanging on and that he does not stand a chance, Sidious is beyond him completely.

 

Additionally, there is nothing suggesting that Surik can sever connection to the Force mid-combat. If that were possible, why didn't she just cut Scourge or Nyriss off from the Force? This ability has never been shown to work on someone who is resisting its use, unless they are absolutely overpowered.

 

The KotOR CG confirmed that Traya's connection was severed when the first duel ended, it also cut their force bond and simultaneously Traya's remaining hand, via Surik's lightsaber.

 

Force Enlightenment? That's not even a real ability, simply a game mechanic that allows several defensive powers to be used in conjunction.

 

Incorrect, it is basically a fancy way of saying Light Side Mastery, this is confirmed in three different sources.

Edited March 18, 2013 by LadyKulvax

[Darkondo]

She did that accidentally if I recall, at the Battle of Malachor V.

 

She did it to herself i might add, and she could only do it to other jedi masters if she was NON-canon dark side, since she is not then there is no evidence that she can do it as a jedi.

[Beniboybling]

I never said that Nyriss was stronger then Revan, just that she didn't really die via Revan's own hand personally it was just redirected power.

This is not how tutanamis works, it requires a great degree of strength in the Force to absorb such an attack and redirect it. Allow me to elaborate:

 

Someone fires a giant missile at someone, as the missile approaches they slow it down with their mind, turn it around and then chuck it back at the attacker. Is that person by any means weak? Or incredibly strong for being able to stop that kind of power?

 

Now think of that scenario again, but with a hundred missiles, which all explode moments before impact, and there you have the scenario you dismissed.

[Wolfninjajedi]

This is not how tutanamis works, it requires a great degree of strength in the Force to absorb such an attack and redirect it. Allow me to elaborate:

 

Someone fires a giant missile at someone, as the missile approaches they slow it down with their mind, turn it around and then chuck it back at the attacker. Is that person by any means weak? Or incredibly strong for being able to stop that kind of power?

 

Now think of that scenario again, but with a hundred missiles, which all explode moments before impact, and there you have the scenario you dismissed.

 

I never said that it didn't require strong strength in The Force...

[LadyKulvax]

She did it to herself i might add, and she could only do it to other jedi masters if she was NON-canon dark side, since she is not then there is no evidence that she can do it as a jedi.

 

False, that was not sever force, it was the same ability as Nihilus began to use, which developed into his hunger.

 

Again, the KotOR CG confirms this as an ability that Vima Sunrider helped her develop her natural affinity for, she was very naturally skilled at it and used it to defeat Darth Traya.

Edited March 18, 2013 by LadyKulvax

[Darkondo]

The KotOR CG confirmed that Traya's connection was severed when the first duel ended, it also cut their force bond and simultaneously Traya's remaining hand, via Surik's lightsaber.

Confirms it was severed, not that she actually severed it via her own power.

[Beniboybling]

They got it from the ROTS novelization heads up.

I demand a quote! I expect whatever has been said is very much open to interpretation.

[legolegion]

Meetra Surik as revan was married to her, and as we all know we woman win against their husband`s

[Darkondo]

False, that was not sever force, it was the same ability as Nihilus began to use, which developed into his hunger.

 

Again, the KotOR CG confirms this as an ability that Vima Sunrider helped her develop her natural affinity for, she was very naturally skilled at it and used it to defeat Darth Traya.

 

Whose Vima Sunrider? thats not even her canon name.

[LadyKulvax]

Confirms it was severed, not that she actually severed it via her own power.

 

What? did you even understand what I just wrote? Surik severed Traya's connection to the force, as well as her force bond at the same time as Traya's remaining hand was severed.

[LadyKulvax]

Whose Vima Sunrider? thats not even her canon name.

 

http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Vima_Sunrider