DarthTHC Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) I read 1 & 2.. Show me where it said people were forced?? It doesn't.. Have a nice day.. Right. The game never MADE them move. It simply offered them choices: 1) Move. 2) Stop playing. 3) Keep playing on a server so underpopulated that you can't PvP, you can't get groups for flash points or H4's, you can't buy or sell anything on GTN... basically play like it's a low-multiplayer or single-player game when it's supposed to be an MMO Why be mean to these players? We should be supporting their call for EA to make things right! It's not these players' fault so many people bought then didn't keep playing the game! Edited March 8, 2013 by DarthTHC Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
LarryRow Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 I read 1 & 2.. Show me where it said people were forced?? It doesn't.. Have a nice day.. Show me where it says that people had to be forced for it to be reasonable to expect transfers. I'll wait while you try to come up with some inadequate reply. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Joonbeams Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 There is no evidence there.. It is all conjecture.. The only issue that needed to be addressed was, were people forced to create toons on other servers.. The answer is simply no.. They willingly made the choice on their own.. Many people never left the server we were originally placed on.. People went to fatman by no recommendation of Bioware.. Seems a little hypocritical to post something where Bioware recommends going to another server to avoid queue times and then in the same post talk about going to Fatman which was arguably the busiest server in the game at that time.. So much for queue times eh?? I stayed on Hyperspace Cannon until the server transfers were allowed in June/July.. All my characters are on one single server.. And still are to this day.. I feel for their situation, but they aren't owed anything.. And free transfers is not fair and legacy is simply an excuse.. No. This misses the point (which I'm not defending, just re-stating). The point is that BioWare actually contributed to, and even encouraged, rolling on different servers. There's no denying that - the evidence is right there. Sure, no one was "forced" to. That's irrelevant. "Encouragement" to roll on another server by BW is enough. Those who did that, and then went through server merging with only some Alts have a valid point (not one that argues for "free" transfers, but at least one that argues for transfers of some type). Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackavaar Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) ... BioWare actually contributed to, and even encouraged, rolling on different servers. There's no denying that - the evidence is right there. ... Wait just a minute. How did they encourage it? Where's the evidence of that? I don't remember a single forum post, email or launcher notification encouraging anyone to roll on multiple servers and nothing about the way the game is designed encourages rolling on multiple servers. Did I miss something? Edited March 8, 2013 by Blackavaar Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
curtkram Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 i'm pretty sure i was told in a customer service ticket that the only way i would be able to play with other people was to start a new character on a different server. that probably would have been last may. it took a few a responses to their canned answers to get past the script though. by the time i leveled up to 50, there wasn't anyone left on the server to group for HMs and pvp was thinning out. i tried a second server and the same thing happened. i was up to lvl 49 on my third server when i left. my characters are still split between 3 servers. think about it. you get to 50 and all you can do is run dailies. no gtn, no hard mode flashpoints, no world boss fights, at least 30 minute wait time for pvp (if you're server isn't quite dead yet). bioware locked the majority of it's player base out of the content they created. you don't see how that could be construed as encouragement to roll multiple servers? or more accurately, to abandon your server. then they launched the legacy system and refused to acknowledge the players split across multiple servers, which i'm pretty sure was a significant percentage. that just added insult to injury. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SentinelDranoel Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Your post does not prove that people didn't have a choice or that they were forced.. Anything less is simply meaningless.. Thanks for proving my point.. Many people never made toons on other servers.. Just because some folks did doesn't mean Bioware owes them anything.. Again, thanks for proving my point.. It is not about proving your point, it is more about showing that the time has come and we are still waiting. I know I chose to pick a different server for 2 toons because my server was full at launch. I was one of the first people in during early access, I had the game set up and everything during the first wave. No one can honestly say it is all BWs fault and I never do. There are old threads where I complained to the community. I asked people as the waves were coming in to stop jumping on the same servers. The response I got was that it is smarter to overpopulate than to spread out. What made it even worse is that a majority of them left the game leaving servers dead lol. That was then and this is now. What the timeline shows you is that Bioware is getting close to it now. They had some roadbumps along the way with loss of subs and F2P needing to be implemented. It is 2013 and the time is now to correct it. After RotHC is released; I think character transfers should be the priority. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonoku Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 (edited) After RotHC is released; I think character transfers should be the priority It should release with the expansion actually. The expansion is irrelevant to me and unimportant without the transfers. If they were to have this already my mind would be focused on end-game content. Like the expansion content, transfers too got delayed. Before, they were focused on Server transfers before the expansion last year. Now it seems the other way around, expansion first then server transfers? Doesn't make any sense. I'll put it this way, without server transfers there is no endgame for me. I have to play the waiting game and play other games. Edited March 8, 2013 by Jonoku Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
SentinelDranoel Posted March 8, 2013 Share Posted March 8, 2013 Wait just a minute. How did they encourage it? Where's the evidence of that? I don't remember a single forum post, email or launcher notification encouraging anyone to roll on multiple servers and nothing about the way the game is designed encourages rolling on multiple servers. Did I miss something? http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=60893 Look at the date, where this all began... "We want incoming players to populate lower population servers." "These servers are closing in on their absolute population cap (the maximum amount of players who can be on the server at any given time) and will likely have a queue to enter even at off-peak play times." "We strongly advise you to not create new characters on these servers, unless you are prepared to queue to play." "We do not expect the queues to alleviate on these servers for the foreseeable future. If you do not want to queue, you should consider playing on another server, many of which have very low or no queues." My favorite part is here, the idea of server transfers begins... "Character transfer is a common request for these servers. The ability to transfer your characters is being worked on, but there is no ETA on when it will be available." Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 No. This misses the point (which I'm not defending, just re-stating). The point is that BioWare actually contributed to, and even encouraged, rolling on different servers. There's no denying that - the evidence is right there. Sure, no one was "forced" to. That's irrelevant. "Encouragement" to roll on another server by BW is enough. Those who did that, and then went through server merging with only some Alts have a valid point (not one that argues for "free" transfers, but at least one that argues for transfers of some type). So what?? That doesn't mean they owe you anything.. Which is my only point since page 1.. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) It is not about proving your point, it is more about showing that the time has come and we are still waiting. I know I chose to pick a different server for 2 toons because my server was full at launch. I was one of the first people in during early access, I had the game set up and everything during the first wave. No one can honestly say it is all BWs fault and I never do. There are old threads where I complained to the community. I asked people as the waves were coming in to stop jumping on the same servers. The response I got was that it is smarter to overpopulate than to spread out. What made it even worse is that a majority of them left the game leaving servers dead lol. That was then and this is now. What the timeline shows you is that Bioware is getting close to it now. They had some roadbumps along the way with loss of subs and F2P needing to be implemented. It is 2013 and the time is now to correct it. After RotHC is released; I think character transfers should be the priority. Again.. Please go back and read my posts.. I never denied that Server transfers are going to happen or should happen.. My point is simply, Bioware does not owe anyone anything for the situation they are in.. The OP made the claim that legacy was the reason that transfers should be free.. I am just saying that is simply absurd.. People made their own choices and aren't owed anything.. That is my only point.. That is all I have ever been saying.. Edited March 9, 2013 by MajikMyst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=60893 Look at the date, where this all began... Yes look at the date.. How many 50's did you have then?? I am guessing none.. Since there were only about 3 or 4 die hards with a 50 at that point.. So the fact that you have multiple 50's on different servers is totally your own doing.. You should have just found a server you liked, deleted all the misc characters on other servers, and recreated them on the server you were on.. After all.. As of 12/20/2011, nobody had a real vested interest in any character.. After all, that was launch day.. Early release was just 5 days prior.. Still not much time to do a lot.. Again, unless you are some hardcore player that plays 24/7 to be the first 50.. Edited March 9, 2013 by MajikMyst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Blackavaar Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=60893 Look at the date, where this all began... "We want incoming players to populate lower population servers." "These servers are closing in on their absolute population cap (the maximum amount of players who can be on the server at any given time) and will likely have a queue to enter even at off-peak play times." "We strongly advise you to not create new characters on these servers, unless you are prepared to queue to play." "We do not expect the queues to alleviate on these servers for the foreseeable future. If you do not want to queue, you should consider playing on another server, many of which have very low or no queues." My favorite part is here, the idea of server transfers begins... "Character transfer is a common request for these servers. The ability to transfer your characters is being worked on, but there is no ETA on when it will be available." This message seems like it was really more intended for new players (ie. incoming players), not active players that were already invested in already exiting characters. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MidichIorian Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Based on the complains it seems that the best solution would be to remove the legacy system since that is what is causing all the grief. OR the players!!!! Let it marinate for a while. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) Show me where it says that people had to be forced for it to be reasonable to expect transfers. I'll wait while you try to come up with some inadequate reply. I do not believe that majikmyst is arguing against server transfers. I agree that server transfers would be good for the game. Those transfers do not need to be free, though. The people with characters on multiple servers did CHOOSE to create characters on multiple servers although it was clear that legacy was only server wide. We were also told that there would be benefits added to the legacy system after launch, so those that chose to create characters on other servers knew those new characters would not be part of the "original" legacy and therefore would not gain any benefits from the "original" legacy. We're now hearing about something else that people want handed to them-free transfers. I'm not saying everyone who wants server transfers wants them to be free, but the OP is definitely asking for free transfers. Using the legacy system as an excuse to ask for free transfers is just that, an excuse. Edited March 9, 2013 by Ratajack Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malckiah Posted March 9, 2013 Author Share Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) Well for those who say that this was clear at launch or this wasn't clear at launch... i have one question: Were you even involved before launch? Do you not remember how hush hush they were about everything? They were not clear on much of anything. I don't see how any of you can say that someone starting at early access could have known the details of what the legacy system entailed....Bioware was far to up in the air about everything. Edited March 9, 2013 by Malckiah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
kevlarto Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I can see them giving one maybe 2 transfers for free, outside of that it is a service to make money, I doubt they will let you transfer all your toons, for free.. /shrug Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebergy Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I do not believe that majikmyst is arguing against server transfers. I agree that server transfers would be good for the game. Those transfers do not need to be free, though. The people with characters on multiple servers did CHOOSE to create characters on multiple servers although it was clear that legacy was only server wide. We were also told that there would be benefits added to the legacy system after launch, so those that chose to create characters on other servers knew those new characters would not be part of the "original" legacy and therefore would not gain any benefits from the "original" legacy. We're now hearing about something else that people want handed to them-free transfers. I'm not saying everyone who wants server transfers wants them to be free, but the OP is definitely asking for free transfers. Using the legacy system as an excuse to ask for free transfers is just that, an excuse. They don't need to be not free either. While I am more than willing to pay to transfer my alts to my main server, I think it would be a very nice gesture by Bioware to allow us a free week or free 1-2 transfers, or something. I get what the people saying its not Bioware's fault for the situation are saying, but if I would have known transfers were going to take almost a year like this? Maybe I would not have rerolled to a new server. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Malckiah Posted March 9, 2013 Author Share Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) Ya, especially since everything has always been so hush hush and "soon" Edited March 9, 2013 by Malckiah Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
tpryan Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 Can you name one MMO that has come out since SWTOR that doesn't offer transfers? Server transfers are LONG overdue for us and show how small the development team on SWTOR is... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) No. This misses the point (which I'm not defending, just re-stating). The point is that BioWare actually contributed to, and even encouraged, rolling on different servers. There's no denying that - the evidence is right there. Sure, no one was "forced" to. That's irrelevant. "Encouragement" to roll on another server by BW is enough. Those who did that, and then went through server merging with only some Alts have a valid point (not one that argues for "free" transfers, but at least one that argues for transfers of some type). There is denying that, because contributing to is irrelevent.. Encouraging is irrelevent.. The post that says to roll on other servers was made on launch day.. It was sound advise to try out the other server and find one you could call home.. But that never meant you should keep all your other various lowbie character spread across lord know how many servers so you could beat Bioware over the head with them.. They are there because of your actions and your actions alone.. Please understand.. I am not arguing against the fact that server trasfers should be a reality and we need them.. I am arguing against this idea that we are owed server transfers for free.. All I hear is various excuses as to why people shouldn't be held responsible for their own actions and choices.. And that is all they are.. Excuses.. Edited March 9, 2013 by MajikMyst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) Show me where it says that people had to be forced for it to be reasonable to expect transfers. I'll wait while you try to come up with some inadequate reply. Your adequate reply is simple.. For Bioware to owe us anything.. It has to be shown that Bioware forced us to take a certian action and this action caused damages in some way.. Abscent of that, we are responsible for our own actions.. Which is all I am saying.. The OP is using legacy as an excuse to demand free transfers.. I am sorry.. I must take issue with that.. I am not against transfers at all.. I am all for them.. I am against the idea that Bioware owes us something for free, for the choices we made.. Edited March 9, 2013 by MajikMyst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
MajikMyst Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 (edited) Can you name one MMO that has come out since SWTOR that doesn't offer transfers? Server transfers are LONG overdue for us and show how small the development team on SWTOR is... Originally they weren't supposed to take this long.. We were told in late July to early August during the beta, that server transfers might be part of launch.. But like so many other things that just didn't make in the final package, transfers got cut for some reason.. In June/July after launch, we had a dry run of server transfers.. We all got to transfer our characters to a server they specified.. Still this was an automated transfer that we did through the website.. In fact, if you all go to your Account page, the button for transfers is still there.. It is just currently disabled.. This was the transfer we all got the Gannofari pet for.. (I might have trashed the spelling.. Sorry.. To lazy to look it up at the moment..) Well.. Those that transfered got the pet.. I don't know why it has taken this long.. And frankly, while it would be nice to get an explination.. Bioware does not owe us one.. As far as what other games had transfers at launch?? There is really no point to that idea.. Other games are not SWTOR.. Sure, it can be said that some games had transfers at release.. Good for them.. Some games also didn't.. The point there was??? I am sure transfers will come when it is ready to be released.. Nope.. That will never be fast enough for us.. Which is why we must learn patience.. I think Yoda said that somewhere.. Edited March 9, 2013 by MajikMyst Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ratajack Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 They don't need to be not free either. While I am more than willing to pay to transfer my alts to my main server, I think it would be a very nice gesture by Bioware to allow us a free week or free 1-2 transfers, or something. I get what the people saying its not Bioware's fault for the situation are saying, but if I would have known transfers were going to take almost a year like this? Maybe I would not have rerolled to a new server. If EA/BW were to allow 1-2 transfers for free or a free week, the forums would be full of people complaining that they have 3 or more characters they need to transfer, or they were away during the "free week" and how unfair it is that others got to transfer more(or all) of their characters for free and they have to pay to transfer some (or all) of theirs. The line should be drawn somewhere and it may be easier and fairer for all to draw the line at no free transfers. If everyone has to pay for each character transferred then no one is getting something someone else didn't get, for whatever reason. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Jonoku Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 If EA/BW were to allow 1-2 transfers for free or a free week, the forums would be full of people complaining that they have 3 or more characters they need to transfer, or they were away during the "free week" and how unfair it is that others got to transfer more(or all) of their characters for free and they have to pay to transfer some (or all) of theirs. The line should be drawn somewhere and it may be easier and fairer for all to draw the line at no free transfers. If everyone has to pay for each character transferred then no one is getting something someone else didn't get, for whatever reason. Good point, if we were to have free transfers, it should be like one free legacy transfer for everyone after that you have to pay. That'll be more reasonable since these transfers have been delayed for a while now. I don't mind paying money tho. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Icebergy Posted March 10, 2013 Share Posted March 10, 2013 If EA/BW were to allow 1-2 transfers for free or a free week, the forums would be full of people complaining that they have 3 or more characters they need to transfer, or they were away during the "free week" and how unfair it is that others got to transfer more(or all) of their characters for free and they have to pay to transfer some (or all) of theirs. The line should be drawn somewhere and it may be easier and fairer for all to draw the line at no free transfers. If everyone has to pay for each character transferred then no one is getting something someone else didn't get, for whatever reason. It is not my fault or problem that some people are immature and filled with a false sense of entitlement. As I said before, I am completely willing to pay for my transfer, but I absolutely reject this as a reason why it can't be free. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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