Read in the Paper: Ea is going to add P2W to all their games

[Andryah]

It's entertaining that you call the crystals "straw man".

 

Do they give any ingame advantage at all from levels 10-49? The only answer can be yes. It's a binary question.

 

Is there any way to create them that doesn't result in money flowing into EA's bank account? The answer can only be "no".

 

Ingame advantage for RMT is p2w.

 

There is no strawman there.

 

Nothing in this game is Binary save for the actual computer bits moving around in the sever and your computer, so give it a rest.

 

There is one material advantage in game of the level 10 color crystals... the ability to have more color crystal variety then otherwise offered in game. And let's be honest... this is their commercial draw for almost all players. And that is only a material advantage to some because of the "cool factor" or the "appearance factor".

 

The stats have no material advantage for even a level 10 player unless they are gearless and in a nekkid duel (except for weapons) with an opponent wielding a bent butter knife.

 

Now... let's take note of the fact that you cannot actually purchase level 10 color crystals with +41 stats on them from the Cartel Market.

 

They are simply a random perk drop from cartel packs... so the only real method to consistently obtain one is via the GTN.

 

As for the cartel packs themselves, while we all know there are some people that will spend real money for coins to buy them....MOST purchases come from subscribers spending their FREE COINS in the shop and more then half of these players are probably reselling them unopened on the GTN.

 

TL;DR: it's not at all clear that the crystals represent any material RMT into EAs treasure chest. People do not buy Cartel packs to get the level 10 color crystals. They do however buy them for a chance at more rare items (level 50 white crystals to name just one).

 

So yeah... your constant adnauseum about the +41 crystals IS a "strawman" to this threads topic. Even the developers have commented at length about that fact since before they patched the crystals into the game.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Andryah

[DarthTHC]

There is one material advantage in game of the level 10 color crystals... the ability to have more color crystal variety then otherwise offered in game. And let's be honest... this is their commercial draw for almost all players. And that is only a material advantage to some because of the "cool factor" or the "appearance factor".

 

So the +31 to +10 stat bonus the crystal gives over one that is crafted, quest reward, or vendor-bought is actually zero material advantage?

 

Then why aren't the crystals +0?

[Andryah]

So the +31 to +10 stat bonus the crystal gives over one that is crafted, quest reward, or vendor-bought is actually zero material advantage?

 

Asked and answered already. Not going to keep mashing the same potatoe.

 

Then why aren't the crystals +0?

 

What is your point? You are grasping at thin air now.

 

But hey.. ask Bioware if you simply have to know.

 

Nevermind... I will project an answer for you, in two parts:

 

1) level capped players won't use +0 stat crystals, and if they only offered the unique colors in +0stats... everyone... you included would be crying up the forums about it.

 

2) the single crystal in each color with +41 stats is a short cut for Bioware. They wanted players who are not level 50 to have access to them yet they wanted them to be good for end game as well. If they offered them with +3 stats, people would demand that they be offered in other level appropriate increments... and Bioware would have to put special vendors into the game that people could buy new crystals (turning in their old one as proof to purchase), and that is frankly an unncessary complication and extra effort from a single mod item that won't materially change a players strength of play in game. So they made a practical compromise AND they analyzed the impact to game balance AND publicly commented on that analysis and rationale before the crystals went live months ago.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Andryah

[Blackavaar]

That's not at all what I'm trying to do, not even close. But if I told you what I was trying to do, it wouldn't work. BTW, I think it did work.

 

And no, it wasn't baiting him either.

 

I call BS on that. It doesn't matter what anyone else says, you'll just be dismissive when it all comes down to it. Our points are made, our lines are drawn and you're still arguing.

 

Okay then...

 

Edited March 8, 2013 by Blackavaar

[Kirameki]

Yes they have and it was even listed as so.

The article even started with it.

 

http://www.telegraaf.nl/digitaal/games/21339167/__Betalen_om_te_winnen_in_alle_EA-games__.html

 

The article is labelled:

 

PAY_TO_WIN_IN_ALL_EA-GAMES

 

Nuff said me thinks!

 

Stopped reading when I saw "Telegraaf". That newspaper is the dutch version of fox news and if you don't know fox news then you've missed some hilarious hogwash.

 

Sure there might be truth in adding micro transactions but it's the dutch version of fox news we're talking about so they see loads of things like they just smoked some marijuana, tossed some shrooms and drank loads of booze and then start to imagine things while shouting very loud.

 

Yeah Telegraaf, the newspaper who's just like Fox. Hysteria incarnated.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Kirameki

[grombrinda]

I'm going to have to back up DarthThc on this one....

 

Yes..the crystals are a form of pay to win, and yes there are crystals you can buy on the market instead of gambling on them.

 

As he said if the stats did not matter then why not a +0 stat one that glowed silver or gold?? Pay to win does not mean that you buy stuff to beat opposing players rather that you buy items to make the challenges in game play easier to defeat. You guys who defend this cartel market will not understand this until they do release instant level 50 tokens and Full dread gear on the market. It will happen....Who here hasn't taken the time to realize that that cash shop has been more updating than the game itself since launch??

[translucentwolf]

The stats have no material advantage for even a level 10 player unless they are gearless and in a nekkid duel (except for weapons) with an opponent wielding a bent butter knife.

 

Well. 2 +41 end crystals give you about 1000 hps over what you'd get with stock +4 end crystals. That's something like a 20-30% bump in hps at that level.

 

That is significant, for a while. But the 1000 hps stop being as important later on.

 

2 +41 expertise crystals... Well. 82 expertise just isn't gonna get it done. You're better off with the 1000 hps previously mentioned.

 

If you can get your hands on a couple of Hawkeyes the bump in power is pretty nice for a DPS spec at low level. Still, I'd rather slowly add power augs, and have the hp cushion. Not many 10s have a healer companion.

 

Again, this is for PvE. And unless you know something I don't, we don't Raid at lvl 10. So you're not buying a win.

 

PvP as we've said does a bolster which evens things out a bit, and negates the advantage.

 

Color crystals are, by and large, cosmetic. They're there to give you "Teh kewl new saber!". They're 41 so you can use them in your endgame weapon, where everyone wants to be BiS.

 

Yeah, they probably 'should' have made them scale. But they were lazy. Laziness is not some master plan to 'slip p2w in through the backdoor'.

[DarthTHC]

Asked and answered already. Not going to keep mashing the same potatoe.

 

What is your point? You are grasping at thin air now. But hey.. ask Bioware if you simply have to know.

 

My point is a small benefit is still a benefit. Just like a penny is still money.

 

Once it's a benefit, large or small, and it's created via RMT only, it's p2w.

 

You don't want to admit it's a benefit. Why?

[Andryah]

My point is a small benefit is still a benefit. Just like a penny is still money.

 

Once it's a benefit, large or small, and it's created via RMT only, it's p2w.

 

You don't want to admit it's a benefit. Why?

 

Because one ant will not haul off your picnic lunch and you know it. To use an analogy with a practical context. Here's another one... you are making a mountain out of a molehill and want us to believe it is actually a mountain.

 

IMO, you are just being petty about it because you want to be right about EA adding P2W to this game. Tell you what... If they DO add generally acceptable P2W elements (as I pointed to earlier) into the game, I would be happy to throw the red flag standing right next to you.

 

The difference between you and I is you are projecting that they are going to corrupt the game with P2W (but have no actual real credible evidence) and I am willing to wait and NOT prosecute the issue unless I see them actually do it.

 

TL;DR How about we wait until they put actual P2W onto the test server before we light all the buildings on fire and grab the pitch forks?

Edited March 8, 2013 by Andryah

[translucentwolf]

My point is a small benefit is still a benefit. Just like a penny is still money.

 

Once it's a benefit, large or small, and it's created via RMT only, it's p2w.

 

You don't want to admit it's a benefit. Why?

 

Well, because you'll call it a 'gateway benefit' leading to a +310 chestpiece that costs USD $xx.xx.

 

A company is in business to make money. Lots of money. Disgusting great piles of the stuff.

 

You, and I, and the rest of the regulars have seen p2w cause issues in other games.

 

So has EA. Give them a little credit. They do, after all, research this stuff.

 

The CM is here. It's not going away. New things will be added. Old things phased out. ( Oh where, oh where, has my Celebrator gone ).

 

But, the CM is not ( currently ) p2w. I, for one, do not believe that it will *become* p2w.

 

And, if it ever does? If the content is still worth my time, I will still pay.

[DarthTHC]

Because one ant will not haul off your picnic lunch and you know it. To use an analogy with a practical context. Here's another one... you are making a mountain out of a molehill and want us to believe it is actually a mountain.

 

IMO, you are just being petty about it because you want to be right about EA adding P2W to this game. Tell you what... If they DO add generally acceptable P2W elements (as I pointed to earlier) into the game, I would be happy to throw the red flag standing right next to you.

 

The difference between you and I is you are projecting that they are going to corrupt the game with P2W (but have not actual real evidence) and I am willing to wait and NOT prosecute the issue unless I see them actually do it.

 

I don't want a mountain. I want you to admit it's a mole hill. And watch it to see if it grows.

 

That is, IF you care about p2w. Some don't care at all. And that's fine. But those who DO care about p2w need to take off the rose-shaded glasses that obfuscate the mole hill behind GTN postability and sitpends for subscribers. They need to see it for what it is.

 

A mole hill.

 

A toe in the water.

 

The first step of a test to see what's acceptable and how far it can be taken.

[translucentwolf]

I don't want a mountain. I want you to admit it's a mole hill. And watch it to see if it grows.

 

That is, IF you care about p2w. Some don't care at all. And that's fine. But those who DO care about p2w need to take off the rose-shaded glasses that obfuscate the mole hill behind GTN postability and sitpends for subscribers. They need to see it for what it is.

 

A mole hill.

 

A toe in the water.

 

The first step of a test to see what's acceptable and how far it can be taken.

 

+41 crystals were not the toe in the water. *Maybe* the 7 series ship parts. Maybe. I prefer to think of those as a 'cartel coin sink for subs'.

[DarthTHC]

So has EA. Give them a little credit. They do, after all, research this stuff.

 

I guess I'll just have to ask you to forgive me for not trusting EA control their greed to the extent it doesn't destroy the game. They do have a certain track record for destroying good things... *cough*

[DarthTHC]

+41 crystals were not the toe in the water. *Maybe* the 7 series ship parts. Maybe. I prefer to think of those as a 'cartel coin sink for subs'.

 

Hopefully you're right. If the g7's were the test and not the +41's, they quickly learned there's a hard boundary they cannot cross.

[Andryah]

I don't want a mountain. I want you to admit it's a mole hill. And watch it to see if it grows.

 

That is, IF you care about p2w. Some don't care at all. And that's fine. But those who DO care about p2w need to take off the rose-shaded glasses that obfuscate the mole hill behind GTN postability and sitpends for subscribers. They need to see it for what it is.

 

A mole hill.

 

A toe in the water.

 

The first step of a test to see what's acceptable and how far it can be taken.

 

Dude... I care about P2W... I even stipulated what it looks like to me (applying generally accepted measures for what it is/is-not in an earlier post).

 

Get back to me when the mole hill is replaced with a mountain (that every sane perons agrees is a mountain). I will be happy to fight right along side you against it. But a molehill does not mean a mountain will be there tomorrow. So please... I am pleading with you to stop with the Don Quixote impressions. Teh windmill is not a dragon. A dragon is a dragon.

Edited March 8, 2013 by Andryah

[translucentwolf]

Get back to me when the mole hill is replaced with a mountain (that every sane perons agrees is a mountain).

 

When the foothills are in view, we can re-visit, and try to prevent the mountain.

[Asuka]

It's micro transactions for their mobile games and addons for their console and pc games. It's not a big deal or anything.

[translucentwolf]

It's micro transactions for their mobile games and addons for their console and pc games. It's not a big deal or anything.

 

There will be more. I for one, am ok with paying with grade 7 ship parts. It let me attempt the 'space heroics'.

 

What I *want* are some different weapon shells. Not legacy weapons. not shells with 'winning' mods. Just different shells.

 

Most pistols sound like 'meh'

Most operative rifles look 'meh'.

For the love of god, remove the lcd screens from the pack weapons.

 

Give us something that looks like it might actually exist in the future. And fix the sound.

 

I'd pay for that. With dollars.