darthnamel Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Darth Traya, a female Sith living during the Old Sith Wars, believed the Force to be akin to some sort of deceptively sinister, indifferent god. She pointed to the numerous wars fought by countless Force users, as proof that the Force cared nothing for the lives it consumed, so long as balance was achieved. "There is no truth in the Force. But there is truth in you, exile. And that is why I chose you." ―Kreia This philosophy emphasized the belief that neither the light nor the dark side was truly superior to the other, and that if people were to be truly free, the Force had to be eliminated from the galaxy. This was generally a very unpopular theory with both the Sith and the Jedi, and this practice disappeared with Traya's death. "I use it as I would use a poison, and in the hopes of understanding it, I will learn the way to kill it. But perhaps these are the excuses of an old woman who has grown to rely on a thing she despises." ―Darth Traya on the Force Since This philosophy has very little in the way of gaining power, since you are in fact trying to destroy the very thing that makes you special, the only real known follower/creator of this philosophy is the Great Darth Traya. Please give me your feedback. And what do you think about her words Sion :No longer do your whispers crawl within my skull, no longer do we suffer beneath teachings that weaken us. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) Seems to me self destructive, your literally tearing away a part of yourself. Though given what we know now, I don't really think Kreia would have succeeded in killing The Force it just seems like one of those things that is nigh impossible given that it is part of the entire galaxy, that and I doubt The Force would let such a thing happen being its omnipotent. Edited February 22, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthnamel Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 I agree. But If I could live multiple lives, I'd want to try it. Completely self-destructive, but I just love that Darling old woman. Reminds me of my Grandma, except without the homicidal tendencies. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventessel Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Seems to me self destructive, your literally tearing away a part of yourself. Though given what we know now, I don't really think Kreia would have succeeded in killing The Force it just seems like one of those things that is nigh impossible given that it is part of the entire galaxy, that and I doubt The Force would let such a thing happen being its omnipotent. Whoa, who says the Force is omnipotent? Or even that it actively "chooses" to do anything. We've got several Force philosophies out there. For starters, the Living Force; the energy field that "surrounds us, binds us, and penetrates us". Then there are several others, coming and going as the times change in the Jedi Order. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthnamel Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 Whoa, who says the Force is omnipotent? Or even that it actively "chooses" to do anything. We've got several Force philosophies out there. For starters, the Living Force; the energy field that "surrounds us, binds us, and penetrates us". Then there are several others, coming and going as the times change in the Jedi Order. Well I was going to try and cover a Force Philosophy Series Thread. If that's ok with Aurbere. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventessel Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Well I was going to try and cover a Force Philosophy Series Thread. If that's ok with Aurbere. I don't think you need his permission to discuss Force Philosophies. I'm down for hashing them out, roll out the threads, mate. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) Whoa, who says the Force is omnipotent? Or even that it actively "chooses" to do anything. We've got several Force philosophies out there. For starters, the Living Force; the energy field that "surrounds us, binds us, and penetrates us". Then there are several others, coming and going as the times change in the Jedi Order. Well it chose to intervene with Plageuis in making another Sith'arai(or however its spelled too tired to look up.), and as I recall Luke Skywalker was doing so much crazy **** The Force literally told him to "stop it." I am pretty sure if its very existence was being threatened, that The Force would do something but it wasn't given the Exile stopped all that. Plus Kreia wasn't really doing it all herself, she was using the Exile to help her. Anyway am off to bed, cya in a few hrs. Edited February 22, 2013 by Wolfninjajedi Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthnamel Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 Well any suggestions for the next Force philosophy? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Wolfninjajedi Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Well any suggestions for the next Force philosophy? I actually think Aurbere was gonna do these things, just never got around to him. But ah...hmm....Unifying Force? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Ventessel Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 We've got the Potentium (force is just an energy that flows through us with neither light nor dark sides), Living Force, and the Unifying Force (the force is a neutral deity that doesn't take sides, but rather guides things towards... something). Just a few thoughts there, might want to start with Living Force as I believe it was the most popular view among the Jedi. Wookiepedia Article for easy research: http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Living_Force Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthnamel Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 Oh just did Unifying Force. Well I will set out time to make a comparative Force philosophy thread also. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Seems to me self destructive, your literally tearing away a part of yourself. Though given what we know now, I don't really think Kreia would have succeeded in killing The Force it just seems like one of those things that is nigh impossible given that it is part of the entire galaxy, that and I doubt The Force would let such a thing happen being its omnipotent.It depends how you look at the Force, is it a part of you? Or does it simply control you? Are non-Force sensitives somehow 'unwhole' then because they cannot feel the Force? Not to suggest that Traya's goal in KOTOR II was to kill the Force, she only sought to deafen everyone too it i.e. force them to give it up. So whether Traya literally wanted to kill the Force is debatable. I'm of the opinion that she did not, and that the quote the OP posted was meant in the metaphorical sense. In that sense your not exactly tearing out a part of yourself, but pushing away an external entity. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
pbajnokl Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 Seems to me self destructive, your literally tearing away a part of yourself. Though given what we know now, I don't really think Kreia would have succeeded in killing The Force it just seems like one of those things that is nigh impossible given that it is part of the entire galaxy, that and I doubt The Force would let such a thing happen being its omnipotent. If I remember correctly... the "Force" didn't let Kreia to destroy the Force. The Force send a hero to stop her. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthnamel Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 The Force may have sent its own "savior"/"destroyer" but the knowledge used was that of Kreia's own. She planned for death and it seems she may have even welcomed it. I see Kreia/Traya as much of the victim of the whims of The Force. I agree that the Force is cruel and even though it created The Chosen One to restore Balance, The Force itself should have taken a role rather than sending a champion. My point is that even though it strives for Balance it would view the deaths of millions or billions as necessary. Why should their lives be lost for the sake of Balance.? Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Beniboybling Posted February 22, 2013 Share Posted February 22, 2013 (edited) My point is that even though it strives for Balance it would view the deaths of millions or billions as necessary. Why should their lives be lost for the sake of Balance.?Because the force is an uncaring, insidious being! This is basically at the heart of Traya's beliefs. And it is a valid point, we either have to assume that the Force is not sentient or the Force simply does not care. On the Traya front, her intentions at Malachor V are unclear. We cannot be sure if she sought to kill the Force, deafen everyone in the galaxy to it, simply end all life in the galaxy or if it was simply a test for Meetra - the final stage of her training if you like so that Meetra might carry on her teachings a rebuild a better Jedi Order, one more detached from the Force. I think it is the final, I think Traya may very well have given up on 'killing' the Force when she was 'exiled' by Nihilus and Sion. EDIT:^^I'm not actually sure on that point, but it was one of these. Edited February 22, 2013 by Beniboybling Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
darthnamel Posted February 22, 2013 Author Share Posted February 22, 2013 Well I think she only really wanted others to be deafened to it by creating more echoes through the Force. Since both Force using sects believe that the Force connects all life, it would be counter productive to simply kill it at all. She, in my own interpretation, wanted the Jedi not to rely on the Force, but to understand their own personal limitations without the Force to strength them. I liken this to what Corran Horn said in I,Jedi about wanting to suffer the effects of a work out to still feel human. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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