2.0 New Build?

[Frerbear]

Okay so I know that it is still early, but i did a little testing today on a new spec for 2.0 on the PTS. Any thoughts are welcomed, as this is just me screwing around trying to get around the screwing they gave us shadows. This is a hybrid spec.

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/jedi-shadow/234/?build=000000000000000000000000000000000322130200110030000000000000000003020322012200210122030000000000&ver=20

 

We can get our procced SS back, and we can also get the same force regen techniques that infiltration gets. We do miss out on the top 2 tiers of skills in the balance tree. I was able to do about 2260 dps over 6 minutes with this spec on the pts, with my Frankensteined gear that comes nowhere close to where my stats are regularly. Once again, any suggestions/comments are welcomed, this was just me screwing around on the pts.

 

EDIT: This post is meant for PVE DPS. Not PVP or Shadow Tanking.

Edited February 24, 2013 by Frerbear

[WooduckAUS]

I'm waiting to get off work to try out the full balance tree and see what difference it makes. Not too worried about NOT having to watch 1 less proc in SS, provided the buffs they gave us cancel that out.

 

Have you tried a full balance build on the dummy yet?

[Frerbear]

I gave it 2-3 tries, as many as i gave this one, it looked like it parsed a little lower but i wouldn't mind getting together with you on one of our ships tonight and trying them out. The SS I think is a pretty solid part of our rotation, but idk.

[DarthBama]

At first blush, to me it looks like they eliminated the hybrids by putting none synergistic talents low on the trees (ie requiring a stance you don't plan to run in).

[ArchangelLBC]

Been playing the 0/27/14 Hybrid lately a lot, so I've been thinking how to reproduce that style of play.

 

I've come up with this build. 0/33/13

 

Also considering taking two points out of nerve wracking and putting them into Adjudication, but thats just case I really like having more hard hitting critical double strikes but honestly having the hard opener is more important to me than that or doing 6% more damage to targets in execute range.

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/jedi-shadow/234/?build=000000000000000000000000000000000322130221112030021022000012000003222010012000000000000000000000&ver=20

 

As far as I can see there's basically one wasted talent point in there which is unfortunate, but that's a price I'm willing to pay to keep FiB. It's just too good of a skill.

Edited February 21, 2013 by ArchangelLBC

[WooduckAUS]

As far as I can see there's basically one wasted talent point in there which is unfortunate, but that's a price I'm willing to pay to keep FiB. It's just too good of a skill.

 

Especially if its hitting 5ppl now....

[DaftVaduhhh]

You've chosen the +dmg on stun over +dmg sub 30% and a cost reduction on spinning stirke? Don't agree with that. You've also foregone clairvoyant strike, which gives a guaranteed boost to project, and you've foregone the new accuracy talent which I presume will make it a ***** to optimise if you don't have it.

 

Hybrid build? Not approved.

 

If you're going to sacrifice sustained DPS, you need survivability, utility and control. Your controls are there, your survivability is OK, but you have next to no utility, and you've sacrificed a very obvious choice to attain that.

 

Welcome to the new king: 23/21/2

 

Additionally, you can drop psychokinesis and flip it into the chain force slow talent in infil, or move it to force synergy for a little extra melee crit.

 

Advantages: beyond the traditional kinetic hybrid build there's a mes which can be used when force attacks are being absorbed, another defensive CD, shadow strike hits harder, you can flip into an effective tank killing stance due to the force breach changes, and there's a passive aoe damage reduction. Harder to kill than ever before.

 

Disadvantages: lack of surge bonuses, no FiB.

 

I honestly don't think having FiB is useful any more unless you go way up the tree. They've seen to that.

[Frerbear]

You've chosen the +dmg on stun over +dmg sub 30% and a cost reduction on spinning stirke? Don't agree with that. You've also foregone clairvoyant strike, which gives a guaranteed boost to project, and you've foregone the new accuracy talent which I presume will make it a ***** to optimise if you don't have it.

 

Hybrid build? Not approved.

 

If you're going to sacrifice sustained DPS, you need survivability, utility and control. Your controls are there, your survivability is OK, but you have next to no utility, and you've sacrificed a very obvious choice to attain that.

 

Welcome to the new king: 23/21/2

 

Additionally, you can drop psychokinesis and flip it into the chain force slow talent in infil, or move it to force synergy for a little extra melee crit.

 

Advantages: beyond the traditional kinetic hybrid build there's a mes which can be used when force attacks are being absorbed, another defensive CD, shadow strike hits harder, you can flip into an effective tank killing stance due to the force breach changes, and there's a passive aoe damage reduction. Harder to kill than ever before.

 

Disadvantages: lack of surge bonuses, no FiB.

 

I honestly don't think having FiB is useful any more unless you go way up the tree. They've seen to that.

 

This is more of a Balance heavy hybrid. Don't usually use project with Balance, so that doesnt matter. The main thing im trying to achieve is the SS proc and the extra force regeneration. If you can show me a tank-heavy hybrid doing higher dps, then I will gladly adopt it. Its not my job to be harder to kill, that's the healers job. Its my job to get the most dps as humanly possible out of the crap hand we were dealt.

[DaftVaduhhh]

Sorry my reply was to the 0/33/13 build.

 

Let me get to work on a balance hybrid to see what I can come up with. I actually do like the 0/27/14 build mentioned for live, might take a look at it.

 

I also automatically assumed this was a PVP thread, is this not the case? Straight balance is likely still king for PVE, though it looks insanely simplified. No SS, no project after popping force cloak and relic/adrenal, as per the 5/5/31 build on live.

 

I get 2k dps on the dummy with the 5/5/31.

Edited February 22, 2013 by DaftVaduhhh

[DaftVaduhhh]

Ok so looking at your build, you're again sacrificing a lot of accuracy, which will do you the world of good in optimisation given the shift in surge, accuracy & alacrity calculations and itemisation (take the hint from the devs with that change).

 

Your output tells me that this build is not ideal, because there are scoundrels doing DF on the PTS who are getting 2.4k sustained. I say that without looking at your gear, but I suspect you're well short of what a shadow can output, and your build would likely be to blame.

[Frerbear]

Yeah sorry about that, forgot to say this is for PVE. I tried straight balance and it looked like it was parsing lower (only did 2-3 for each spec though). So i tried to find the best way to get that SS back and we get the force regen of the Infiltration tree also.

[Katszc]

Thoughts?

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/jedi-shadow/234/?build=022330231120003002100203120200100122230000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000&ver=20

 

I really enjoy what's available in the kinetic combat tree, I ain't a tank, don't even use shield so it's built for damage.

 

Basically for utility aswell as picking off healers.

[DaftVaduhhh]

I think Shadow's mark is a crap talent, especially if you don't have the infil SS proc and the surge bonus from circling shadows. It's a levelling talent to keep infil up to pace and is very lazy from the devs.

 

Consider dropping it for upheaval. This is PVP build yes? You'd likely pull threat off the tank otherwise. You're basically an old school DPS tank with that set up, and not the most efficient.

 

Try:

 

http://pts.swtor-spy.com/skill-tree-calculator/jedi-shadow/234/?build=022302221120023002100203120200100322210000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000000&ver=20

[Frerbear]

Hey guys if at all possible can we try and contain this to PVE DPS, not PVP? Just trying to get people's thoughts on the best sustained dps with the new patch.

 

Thanks

[DaftVaduhhh]

Try changing the thread title to reflect that.

 

Given how low crit rates are, it actually looks like people might try to get accelerated project, foregoing clairvoyant strike and dps in combat technique stance.

 

It's insane, and probably not viable, but it would be the highest DPS based on what I'm seeing and hearing (can't transfer by shadow to PTS currently).

[Frerbear]

How is it insane and not viable? It would help if you explained why you think that, without even testing on PTS. Also, i do not know how to change the title of the thread, which is why i changed the OP.

[DaftVaduhhh]

Running in a high threat stance as a dps in PVE? Do I need to explain why that's a bad idea to you? Edited February 22, 2013 by DaftVaduhhh

[Frerbear]

Running in a high threat stance as a dps in PVE? Do I need to explain why that's a bad idea to you?

 

Just to be clear I'm talking about the 0-18-28 build I mentioned in the OP. How is that much different threat wise from a full balance or full infiltration?

[DaftVaduhhh]

Just to be clear I'm talking about the 0-18-28 build I mentioned in the OP. How is that much different threat wise from a full balance or full infiltration?

Oh right - not at all - carry on!

[Frerbear]

So, still doing a little more testing today, got the main rotations down for infiltration and balance specs. It looks like an infiltration spec is doing the best over a 5 or so minute parse, kinda surprised. My you need to jump on man, need another competent shadow to test with.

[WooduckAUS]

I've been trying, won't let me copy my characters over......

[DaftVaduhhh]

I had to create a character from scratch then boost it, and I have to agree that infil is king in pve right now, which IMO is broken because it's not a PVE friendly spec.

 

The worst part is the highest damage is probably an infil build that uses combat tech and accelerated project, and thus is only viable in pvp. It does kinda suck in terms of force regen though (no technique proc and no project cost reduction).

 

Long story short: balance upon second review appears to need its force regen restored, perhaps even some sort of burst move to replace the SS proc. They've gone and matched it to balance sages, but they get one more DoT and TK throw is a superior filler for force regen purposes than double strike.

 

I appreciate the nod to the projectless build as per what people started doing, but I had crafted a very comfortable niche with Twin Disciplines, Shadow's Respite and a poppable relic that afforded me what I believe to be the highest possible DPS. Now it seems a balance shadow needs to use Force Cloak & Shadow's respite just to keep up.

[ratiphi]

Please see this thread

 

http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?t=602249

 

and sign if you agree. Thanks

[Typeslice]

Running in a high threat stance as a dps in PVE? Do I need to explain why that's a bad idea to you?

 

That's asinine. If you can't control your threat as an end-game dps'er, optimizing specs is the least of your concerns.

Edited February 23, 2013 by Typeslice

[ArchangelLBC]

That's asinine. If you can't control your threat as an end-game dps'er, optimizing specs is the least of your concerns.

 

What's asinine is trying to "control threat" when all your abilities generate 100% more threat.

 

You've chosen the +dmg on stun over +dmg sub 30% and a cost reduction on spinning stirke? Don't agree with that. You've also foregone clairvoyant strike, which gives a guaranteed boost to project, and you've foregone the new accuracy talent which I presume will make it a ***** to optimise if you don't have it.

 

Hybrid build? Not approved.

 

If you're going to sacrifice sustained DPS, you need survivability, utility and control. Your controls are there, your survivability is OK, but you have next to no utility, and you've sacrificed a very obvious choice to attain that.

 

Welcome to the new king: 23/21/2

 

Additionally, you can drop psychokinesis and flip it into the chain force slow talent in infil, or move it to force synergy for a little extra melee crit.

 

Advantages: beyond the traditional kinetic hybrid build there's a mes which can be used when force attacks are being absorbed, another defensive CD, shadow strike hits harder, you can flip into an effective tank killing stance due to the force breach changes, and there's a passive aoe damage reduction. Harder to kill than ever before.

 

Disadvantages: lack of surge bonuses, no FiB.

 

I honestly don't think having FiB is useful any more unless you go way up the tree. They've seen to that.

 

Yes the higher damage when under control by spinning kick and stun is better. For one it works under any health conditions the target might have, for two targets in PVP don't live long enough under 30% health for the damage to be significant in my opinion and you've gotten 6% more overkill. In PVE (which apparently this thread is about) that would be important. In PVP I'm not sure I see it. The talent also synergizes with the lower CD to stun you'd be forced taking

 

FiB is as useful as it ever was. They didn't nerf the damage on it, and it's still the best cap stopper in the game.

 

Considering CS no longer boosts the damage on project I care even less about losing it than I do now with 0/27/14

 

Your link goes back to my spec so I can't really discuss what you did, but I honestly think any tank hybrid is going to be sucking hind teat on burst damage. Considering that crit pushes shield chance off the table, I'll gladly take Force Synergy over Technique mastery.

 

My build is basically a natural extension of the current 0/27/14 build which is pretty much our best PVP spec right now.

 

The changes to accuracy and what not might make it more tenable and full infiltration might be our best spec period, but if there's a viable hybrid left, its not going to be a kinetic one. Too much utility gone now from those specs to still be viable.