planet_J Posted March 2, 2013 Share Posted March 2, 2013 Each augment raises base damage ~4 points. So 11 augments...44 extra base damage. Not even close to 300. If credits transferred over to the PTS, this would be much easier... Base + Bonus...per augment... Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTbone Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Base + Bonus...per augment... No, sorry, this is incorrect. Damage (Pri) already calculates bonus damage. That's what causes the increase. It does not apply the damage TWICE. To get more specific, if you hover over damage, BASE WEAPON DAMAGE does not change with taking power augments in and out. MELEE BONUS DAMAGE, which is the same as BONUS DAMAGE without hovering, is the only number that changes. In other words, Bonus Damage isn't added ON TOP of Damage (Pri). It's already been added before you see the total. Therefore, my math is more or less correct. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planet_J Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 Ok, 44 base damage per hit or tick You're in watchman right? 44x6 on cauterize and O-S is how much? Why that's 264 per ability...or 528 for the 2 per application...plus 44 per GCD for each attack...if they crit it's going to be more like 88...which becomes 88x6 when you use Zen...or 528 by itself before another attack... Nah...that's not close to 300 at all huh? (BTW: I KNOW you're wrong and I am right, because my guildie tested it out 2 nights ago...the difference for JUST augments is right at 300 if you're using artifact 22 strength augments. In carnage he did a little over 2200 w/o augments and a little over 2500 with augments on PTS in stock arkanian gear otherwise.) Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTbone Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) It's true that raw damage does not equal DPS - I hadn't really factored that in. Unfortunately it still doesn't make up the difference. I put all the mods into augmented gear. This gave an additional eight overkill augments (neither sets of gear in my test have augments for earpiece and implants). This ups the bonus damage to 662.3, or the Damage (Pri) to 1130-1365. The result was DPS = 2087. The additional augments did yield about 130 more DPS, but not enough to make up the 300 disparity. To summarize: Power stacked gear with 8 overkill augments: 2256 Crit stacked gear with 8 overkill augments: 2087 This is using a Rakata stim and no adrenals/Inspiration for about 120 secs each. Fully augmented and using adrenals and inspirations, these numbers would both be higher, but I'm more concerned about a comparison between the two. As it stands now, there's still ~150 DPS between the two, though this is with minimal testing. I'm interested in seeing other results. Edit: Another Power log: 2154 Another Crit log: 2151 Trying more tests, I got the two logs to be pretty close to each other. 2154 is on the low end of power, and 2151 is on the high end of crit, but it would suggest that, with some tweaking, either could be viable. Our DPS can fluctuate a good bit depending on if Cauterize keeps proccing or not. Power w/ relic, adrenal, Inspiration: 2375 Crit w/ relic, adrenal, Inspiration: 2265 Edited March 3, 2013 by TheTbone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
planet_J Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) So the augments make about ~17 dps difference per, meaning 3 more will put you right around 180-200 more dps over the last build...without augments I may have rounded up some...but I was close; however, it seems like he gained about ~270 dps though...but he may have used different arkanian gear between the runs...I will investigate his gear setup further...all he told me was that he was in stock arkanian gear...not which set he was using, or whether he had changed gear. Edited March 3, 2013 by planet_J Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recsa Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 (edited) Im considering switching to combat, but we are ready to switch to a 3x gunslingers, 1x Commando setup. Finally i was able to copy my main to the PTS and do some proper testing, so i'm gonna correct myself on my statements, also some good info has already been shared by the community at MMO Mechanics and here at SWTOR Forums: Thx to KeyboardNinja for this new formula compilation Thx to maktari for this graph showing the curve for the Diminishing Return On my first tests without my main copied to PTS i was far behind Gunslingers in DPS, we tested on dummy, they were doing 2300-2400 DPS while i was stuck at 1900, but now with Datacrons, Augments and Relics im also on the 2300-2400 DPS mark. So, after trying out different specs and gear combinations my conclusions are: (again, MY conclusions) 1- Watchman is still the top sustained DPS spec for sentinels, in the 5 mins mark watchman grants me an average 2350 DPS while combat stucks at 2200. On the 30s mark, Combat burst is way superior, the new pre-combat centering build up mechanic is *********** awesome. 2- Watchman DPS is very very dependant on keeping the 4 stacks of Merciless up as much as possible, bosses that prevent us from doing so (so far all of them in S&V) greatly affect our DPS 3- The way Crit scales now makes it useless when coming at the expense of Power, maybe once we have gear rating 72-75 the amount of Crit rating on each piece will make it worth putting 3-4 crit mods, right now ... it doesnt. 4- Alacrity ... avoid it as death, 300 alacrity rating grants you a 2%, so your GCD lowers from 1.5s to 1.47s at the cost of 300 Power .. pointless, to reach the 1.25 seconds mark you need to stack up ... well, you just can't, we dont have enough enhancements on our equipment. 5- Accuracy: now we need 3-4 more enhancements/implants to reach the 99-100% but doable because steadfast, now it is on first tier but it has swap possition with Dual Wield Mastery, so in practice, no change at all, 8 points in Combat Tree are mandatory. 6- Surge: It's ok, once accuracy is at the 99-100% mark, fill in rest of enhancements/implants/ear with Power/Surge, you will not hit the fancy 70%+ you had on live (another reason to avoid crit) but hey, you cant replace it with anything else. 7- Gunslinger is the most buffed class in 2.0, they now tie with us in single target and greatly surpases us on AoE as usually. 8- Most of the new operation bosses are melee unfriendly, pushes (come on BW, every single mob needs to have a push ability? really?), huge AoE, adds, .... its harder to do our job, but we will get used to. In summary; nothing new under the sun, full power more than ever, i love SWTOR, the one single stat game. Edited March 3, 2013 by recsa Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTbone Posted March 3, 2013 Share Posted March 3, 2013 It seems most people are in agreement about crit being useless. So with all this in mind, it looks like the quickest way to gear up is to go for the Arkanian Challenger set and replace anything with Alacrity. That'll get you close to where you wanna be fairly quickly. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTbone Posted March 4, 2013 Share Posted March 4, 2013 (edited) I did some more tweaking, going with a LOT of power and practically no crit. This started to lower my DPS, so there's still a sweet spot with crit. The sweet spot I'm getting at the moment is around 24% crit chance, or 400 crit rating. This is 28.24% force crit chance (with 4% from talents). 5% of this is from the smuggler buff. This leaves me with 1100 power and 2406 strength. This gets me to 2661 DPS, but I'd like to keep tweaking to see if I can get higher. P.S. Sorry if this got a bit off topic. I know the thread was originally about the Watchman Tree, but all of this info pertains to the Watchman, so I hope it's still beneficial. Edited March 4, 2013 by TheTbone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recsa Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 I did some more tweaking, going with a LOT of power and practically no crit. This started to lower my DPS, so there's still a sweet spot with crit. The sweet spot I'm getting at the moment is around 24% crit chance, or 400 crit rating. This is 28.24% force crit chance (with 4% from talents). 5% of this is from the smuggler buff. This leaves me with 1100 power and 2406 strength. This gets me to 2661 DPS, but I'd like to keep tweaking to see if I can get higher. P.S. Sorry if this got a bit off topic. I know the thread was originally about the Watchman Tree, but all of this info pertains to the Watchman, so I hope it's still beneficial. could you please upload that log to TORParse please? i would love to analize it Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
TheTbone Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 (edited) Sure, here ya go. I've never used TORparse as I just seemed to get bogged down in the info, but I think i did that right. I notice that the parse says I was hitting the Warzone Training Dummy, but I'm pretty certain it was the Operations Training Dummy. Is that known issue with TORparse or should I double check that? Edit: Trying it again, I'm not able to reproduce those results on the Operations Training Dummy. Additionally, despite the parse not being able to pick out the fight automatically, it still calls it the correct dummy. I must have gotten turned around while switching around mods. My DPS is back in line with the other results I was getting: 2332. Lame... Edited March 5, 2013 by TheTbone Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
recsa Posted March 5, 2013 Share Posted March 5, 2013 Sure, here ya go. I've never used TORparse as I just seemed to get bogged down in the info, but I think i did that right. I notice that the parse says I was hitting the Warzone Training Dummy, but I'm pretty certain it was the Operations Training Dummy. Is that known issue with TORparse or should I double check that? Edit: Trying it again, I'm not able to reproduce those results on the Operations Training Dummy. Additionally, despite the parse not being able to pick out the fight automatically, it still calls it the correct dummy. I must have gotten turned around while switching around mods. My DPS is back in line with the other results I was getting: 2332. Lame... Thx a lot, 2300-2400 is perfectly ok and its in the line with other sentinel's tests, dont be embarased, i myself have hit the wrong dummy some times just to notice it after wasting some precious testing minutes XDDDD Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thufir_Hawat Posted March 9, 2013 Share Posted March 9, 2013 I've played around with my Anhi Mara quite a bit on PTS and I've found that on the dummy around 100 crit in 69s augmented gives me the best results. It is not so much because the damage from critting is compensating for the loss of bonus damage, it doesn't. It is becuase your rotation changes a little as you're getting a little bit extra rage, so less assualts and more VS, Ravages. This being said, when I get into the S&V ops I find it very difficult for many of the bosses to maintain my 4 stacks of annhilation, especially the first 2, so the build is not as rage demanding in an op as on a dummy. Given this I'm really tempted to just stack power on this build and maybe add a little crit as the gear progresses. Alternativley I just need to get much better at keeping my annhi stacks in the new op. However, I will probably stick with strength Augs as the difference in bonus damage is tiny and the extra crit almost compenstates up to 3000 str. Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
Thaxyll Posted March 11, 2013 Share Posted March 11, 2013 (edited) Thanks for that input Recsa, very helpful! Edited March 11, 2013 by Thaxyll Link to comment Share on other sites More sharing options...
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