Sniper 2.0 PTS!

[bbare]

EDIT: No exp probe. Using 5/5/36. I don't have a parse (at work) but i'll post it later tonight.

EDIT: Nice find! I'll try test this one out with a talented Ambush. Maybe that's the one I'm missing lol

 

I tried

 

CG - CD - WB - CULL - SOS - TD - CULL - TD - AMBUSH

CG - CD - WB - CULL - TD - SOS - AMBUSH - CULL - TD (worse on energy regen due to the underlined part)

CG - CD - WB - CULL - SOS - TD - EP (AMBUSH if EP on CD) - CULL - TD

 

Tried putting in some Lazed Snipes here and there if energy allowed. Overall looking at my mox, MM for me was doing higher burst and can sustain it longer.

 

I would like to think that this is only happening to me and that other people are having better luck with Full Lethality (vs MM) on their tests ._.

 

The rotation I was using is:

 

CG > CD > WB > Cull > TD > SoS > Lazed Snipe/Ambush/RS > Cull > CG > CD > TD > WB > Cull.

 

No real energy problems. Had to throw in a few Rifle Shots in place of LS or ambush, but Adrenaline Probe and Target Acquired were pretty much up whenever I needed energy regen.

 

All Power mods/enhancements, 4p pve set.

Edited March 5, 2013 by bbare

[NotRonin]

Due to the way critical rating is working right now, the ideal number critical rating for Lethality should be pretty close to 0.

 

Rotation-wise, go for something simple :

 

CG -> CD -> WB -> Cull -> FT -> X -> X -> X -> Cull -> FT

 

The 3 fillers can be OS, SoS, Ambush, Snipe or Rapid shot. There are 24 ticks of poison in the 18 seconds, however you're looking at a 30% crit l, so the average energy regen is 14. Adding the 90 from normal energy regen, you get 104 energy.

 

The energy cost for the skills are

 

10 -> 16 -> 0 -> 25 -> 5 -> X -> X -> X -> 25 -> 5

 

It adds up to 86, leaving you with only 18 energy for a sustainable rotation. Unlike before, you need to watch your energy level to determine which skill to use.

[paowee]

 

The rotation I was using is:

 

CG > CD > WB > Cull > TD > SoS > Lazed Snipe/Ambush/RS > Cull > CG > CD > TD > WB > Cull.

 

No real energy problems. Had to throw in a few Rifle Shots in place of LS or ambush, but Adrenaline Probe and Target Acquired were pretty much up whenever I needed energy regen.

 

All Power mods/enhancements, 4p pve set.

 

 

Due to the way critical rating is working right now, the ideal number critical rating for Lethality should be pretty close to 0.

 

Rotation-wise, go for something simple :

 

CG -> CD -> WB -> Cull -> FT -> X -> X -> X -> Cull -> FT

 

The 3 fillers can be OS, SoS, Ambush, Snipe or Rapid shot. There are 24 ticks of poison in the 18 seconds, however you're looking at a 30% crit l, so the average energy regen is 14. Adding the 90 from normal energy regen, you get 104 energy.

 

The energy cost for the skills are

 

10 -> 16 -> 0 -> 25 -> 5 -> X -> X -> X -> 25 -> 5

 

It adds up to 86, leaving you with only 18 energy for a sustainable rotation. Unlike before, you need to watch your energy level to determine which skill to use.

 

 

Thanks for the input. I'll be testing it again later tonight with your recommendations and ideas. The gear will remain constant (i'll be using an all power build), and ofcourse keep the 4pc pve set bonus. I'm really curious to know how Full MM stands vs Full Lethality and whatever the results are i'll post them here for you guys to criticize.

 

Have you tried Full MM vs your Full Lethality? How does one compare to the other for you?

 

EDIT:

Unlike before, you need to watch your energy level to determine which skill to use.

True! That is why Full Lethality feels a bit off to me right now. It feels like it swapped with Hybrid LIVE in terms of stricter energy requirements.

No real energy problems. Had to throw in a few Rifle Shots in place of LS or ambush, but Adrenaline Probe and Target Acquired were pretty much up whenever I needed energy regen.

This could be one of our differences. I use these 2 abilities in LIVE "offensively" and not as a backup for energy crises. LIVE I can squeeze as many filler abiltiies as I can to up DPS without much energy issues. In 2.0 doing the same thing results in me having to RS to get enough energy back, and delay my dot applications and delaying Cull, and in the long run these stack up and I get a 5min Full Lethality parse that is lower than my Full Marksmanship.

Edited March 5, 2013 by paowee

[stringcat]

My bet is aoe attacks with snipers change your spotter detection cone.

 

I did a whole bunch of dueling on the PTS. It does.

[bbare]

Due to the way critical rating is working right now, the ideal number critical rating for Lethality should be pretty close to 0.

 

Rotation-wise, go for something simple :

 

CG -> CD -> WB -> Cull -> FT -> X -> X -> X -> Cull -> FT

 

The 3 fillers can be OS, SoS, Ambush, Snipe or Rapid shot. There are 24 ticks of poison in the 18 seconds, however you're looking at a 30% crit l, so the average energy regen is 14. Adding the 90 from normal energy regen, you get 104 energy.

 

The energy cost for the skills are

 

10 -> 16 -> 0 -> 25 -> 5 -> X -> X -> X -> 25 -> 5

 

It adds up to 86, leaving you with only 18 energy for a sustainable rotation. Unlike before, you need to watch your energy level to determine which skill to use.

 

Taking into account corrosive dart ticks twice 25% of the time, energy regen is more like 20 per rotation for poison crits. It pretty much makes SoS free and when using ambush it delays the rotation by about 1 sec so you will get 5 more energy per rotation.

Edited March 5, 2013 by bbare

[NotRonin]

Oops, made a mistake. It should be TD, not FT. So the energy use is7, not 5.

 

So in total

 

CG -> CD -> WB -> Cull -> TD -> X -> X -> X -> Cull -> TD

 

That is 90 energy with the 4 set, and 106 without.

 

You have 3 GCD to use up whatever energy regen you get.

 

So even with 20 energy regen, you can use a SoS or Ambush, but not both.

 

Lethality is now energy starved.

[bbare]

Oops, made a mistake. It should be TD, not FT. So the energy use is7, not 5.

 

So in total

 

CG -> CD -> WB -> Cull -> TD -> X -> X -> X -> Cull -> TD

 

That is 90 energy with the 4 set, and 106 without.

 

You have 3 GCD to use up whatever energy regen you get.

 

So even with 20 energy regen, you can use a SoS or Ambush, but not both.

 

Lethality is now energy starved.

 

Energy is not starved. It is quite easy, actually.

 

1. Using rifle shot as your last filler will result in energy being ~neutral.

 

2. Using Ambush as a last filler will result in energy being ~-10 (Ambush delays rotation by 1 sec)

 

3. Laze Snipe will result in energy being ~-20

 

Every rotation does not have to be energy neutral, although at least half do You can have some rotations spend more energy, because of TA and Adrenaline probe. Get a feel what you are most comfortable with.

 

This could be one of our differences. I use these 2 abilities in LIVE "offensively" and not as a backup for energy crises.

 

What I meant by "every time I need them" is that my energy was fine and I could use adrenaline probe to burst with orbital > SoS > Cull and TA to burst with TD > SoS > LS/Ambush

Edited March 5, 2013 by bbare

[paowee]

Energy is not starved. It is quite easy, actually.

 

1. Using rifle shot as your last filler will result in energy being ~neutral.

 

2. Using Ambush as a last filler will result in energy being ~-10 (Ambush delays rotation by 1 sec)

 

3. Laze Snipe will result in energy being ~-20

 

Keep in mind though that the reason for me being energy starved is because I was trying to use as much filler abilities as i can. Not one, not either or, but as much as I can in order to get my Lethality to do as much if not more than my Marksmanship.

 

That is the original "problem." Ofcourse RS will be an energy gain and swapping around abilities in the rotation will help in managing energy as well (e.g. instead of Cull - X - X - X - Cull, you can do Cull - X - X - Cull - X. so you end up staggering your filler abilities instead of squeezing them in one tight spot).

 

In the end my question is, which is better now for sustained DPS? Full MM or Full Lethality? In my tests, wearing the same gear (all power / 0 crit rating), and swapping into the appropriate set bonuses, it was Full MM. I need confirmation though and I refuse to believe that this is true until other people come up with the same results.

 

I will still continue to do some parses, now with everyone's suggestions, and hopefully I can get Full Lethality up to par to Full MM >_< If not.. well i'll post the torparse here for your scrutiny >_<

Edited March 6, 2013 by paowee

[DroidDreamer]

I did a whole bunch of dueling on the PTS. It does.

 

Very nice. Thanks for the confirmation. Good to know when solo guarding a node.

[DroidDreamer]

I would LOVE to hear any info you have on gearing in 2.0, in particular what stats we should be going for. I went to the Gunslinger's forum and found this post:

 

was making this thread to maybe get some info on what some of the other slingers are doing on the pts, i have did alot of gear switching and cam up with these stats that it looks like im maxed out at

 

432 accuracy rating

129 Crit rating

144 surge rating

144 alacrity

1201 power

 

im in the full 69 gear with DG Relics and I run the hybrid of 5/18/23

 

with this set up im able to hold a steady 2600dps sometimes depending on crits higher

 

here is a 6 minutes parse with proof http://swtor.askmrrobot.com/combatlog/ac230957-eb6c-4bd7-ad9f-f25be151a41e/overview#d=0,f=2,t=1,b=1

 

so im not posting this thread saying that this is what slingers should do im posting this hoping that some one is gonna reply saying they doing 3000dps and this is how they are doing it

 

Good luck fellow slingers

 

Anyone have any ideas on ideal stats for Snipers in 2.0?

[paowee]

Stil no fix on covered escape :-\

[paowee]

Here are some uncropped and cropped parses I just did awhile ago: (all begin from the start) Rakata adrenal, Rakata stim, Companion/Legacy buffs

 

Full Lethality EDIT: 5/5/36! I forgot to respec to 7/3/36... my bad...

 

346 Crit Rating

http://www.torparse.com/a/155325 10 minutes

http://www.torparse.com/a/155334/time/1362625819/1362626119/0/Damage+Dealt

http://www.torparse.com/a/155344/time/1362626446/1362626746/0/Overview

 

0 Crit Rating

http://www.torparse.com/a/155351 9 minutes

http://www.torparse.com/a/155362/time/1362627786/1362628003/0/Damage+Dealt 3 minutes. Messed up after 3 minute mark.

http://www.torparse.com/a/155369/time/1362628213/1362628513/0/Overview

 

Full Marksman without the 2pc PVP Bonus

 

0 Crit Rating

http://www.torparse.com/a/155379/time/1362628996/1362629296/0/Overview

 

Full Marksman EDIT: With the 2pc PVP Bonus

 

0 Crit Rating

http://www.torparse.com/a/151715/time/1362362519/1362362820/0/Overview

 

Hybrid With the 2pc PVP Bonus

 

0 Crit Rating

http://www.torparse.com/a/154408/time/1362558555/1362559010/0/Overview

http://www.torparse.com/a/155419/time/1362631543/1362632022/0/Overview

http://www.torparse.com/a/155419/time/1362632097/1362632399/0/Overview

http://www.torparse.com/a/155443/time/1362633102/1362633582/0/Overview

 

edit: ill try to put more MM parses later

Edited March 6, 2013 by paowee

[NoTomorrow]

Can you guys help me bring the attention of developers to this thread? http://www.swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=5958061#post5958061

 

I am starting to hate that MM has become the new arsenal "tracer missle" snipe spam. Forcing us to spam double snipes, sucks.

[BetaKiller]

Really nice! Thank you very much.

About a 100 DPS diff on Leth and MM and another 100 for MM and hybrid.

Leth keeps being the more mobile spec (Cull without cover and dots) I think.

MM like it should be an awesome sentry cannon

Hybrid I want to see if they'll keep it that way, surprised that the change to Explosive Eng didn't nerf it much (Although you did used it the PvP 2p set bonus any Hybrid without it?)

 

Now I would like some 9min - 10min on the others as well to see the DPS decay on longer fights and see which one would decay less.

 

Also all those parses where done without alacrity at all?

[Ardarell_Solo]

A question about the PvP 2 set bonus for hybrid: I understand it makes orbital strike tick longer, but does it actually also increase damage accordingly?

 

Mind you I'm playing a gunslinger, so I'm not sure if it behaves the same (but it should)....

 

I had the feeling the pvp set bonus just increases the duration of orbital strike (or xs freighter, in slinger terms) so you can defend a node longer but that it does not actually increase the overall damage as it just spreads the same amount of damage to a longer duration.

 

Or am I completely off here?

[ikbrain]

A question about the PvP 2 set bonus for hybrid: I understand it makes orbital strike tick longer, but does it actually also increase damage accordingly?

 

Mind you I'm playing a gunslinger, so I'm not sure if it behaves the same (but it should)....

 

I had the feeling the pvp set bonus just increases the duration of orbital strike (or xs freighter, in slinger terms) so you can defend a node longer but that it does not actually increase the overall damage as it just spreads the same amount of damage to a longer duration.

 

Or am I completely off here?

 

It doest give you additional tick of Orbitas strike. So it will be 4 ticks over 12 sec instead of 3 ticks over 9 sec. Damage is accordingly higher.

[Atramar]

A question about the PvP 2 set bonus for hybrid: I understand it makes orbital strike tick longer, but does it actually also increase damage accordingly?

 

Mind you I'm playing a gunslinger, so I'm not sure if it behaves the same (but it should)....

 

I had the feeling the pvp set bonus just increases the duration of orbital strike (or xs freighter, in slinger terms) so you can defend a node longer but that it does not actually increase the overall damage as it just spreads the same amount of damage to a longer duration.

 

Or am I completely off here?

 

no set bonus - orbital strike does 2k dmg (6k total) non crit each 3 sec 3 times over 9 sec

2 item set bonus - orbital strike does 2k dmg (8k total) non crit each 3 sec 4 times over 12 sec

[NotRonin]

It gives you an extra tick of damage at full damage.

 

So suppose your Orbital Strike/Flyby does 2k damage for 6k total, with the 2set pvp, that will be 8K (4x 2k), not 4x 1.5k.

[Ardarell_Solo]

ok, thx guys! i'll be hurrying off then, completely rearranging my gear... :-)

[Tamanous]

It gives you an extra tick of damage at full damage.

 

So suppose your Orbital Strike/Flyby does 2k damage for 6k total, with the 2set pvp, that will be 8K (4x 2k), not 4x 1.5k.

 

Are you just throwing out random but easy numbers for math? Because my Fly-by power does a HELL of a lot more damage than that on live.

[verfallen]

I'm currently gearing my sniper on live, and to me it seems the value of an etra tick of orbital is higher than lower takedown cost, for MM even more.

 

With my current gear, I've averaged OS ticks (surge and crit included) to 2,9k. That represent 64 extra dps for MM (45 sec cd OS) and 48 for 60 sec cd OS.

 

Saving the energy on Takedown's nice, but other than the new lethality 2,0, you won't draw much advantage from it. Full lethalithy sniper may consider the full pve set bonus that said since it will help keeping their costly rotation above 60 with less rifle shots.

[paowee]

Really nice! Thank you very much.

About a 100 DPS diff on Leth and MM and another 100 for MM and hybrid.

Leth keeps being the more mobile spec (Cull without cover and dots) I think.

MM like it should be an awesome sentry cannon

Hybrid I want to see if they'll keep it that way, surprised that the change to Explosive Eng didn't nerf it much (Although you did used it the PvP 2p set bonus any Hybrid without it?)

 

Now I would like some 9min - 10min on the others as well to see the DPS decay on longer fights and see which one would decay less.

 

Also all those parses where done without alacrity at all?

 

They were all done with 0 Crit rating 0 Alacrity. I got Accuracy to ~100%, and once that was done rest was into Power/Surge (enhancements)

[paowee]

On the use of Orbital Strike for parsing on the dummy, it can get a little bit iffy. As MM i noticed it to always increase and bump up DPS by a lot because I use with Sniper Volley. In Hybrid i use it when I have cluster bombs up so i can get energy back quicker and thus continue down my rotation faster. In Full Lethality, using it then spamming RS 2 times brings down my DPS a lot (cast time of orbital followed 2 RS and DPS goes down). I've been experimenting using OS only with TA or AP as Full Lethality for the quick energy regen and that seemed to help in the dummy DPS. (In raids tho it'll be different just use it on those adds as much as you can! lol).

 

Now I would like some 9min - 10min on the others as well to see the DPS decay on longer fights and see which one would decay less. Also all those parses where done without alacrity at all?

in my playstyle/experience, i notice lethality to decay fast when i mess up with squeezing in orbital, Hybrid largely depends if you mess something up during squeezing in orbital too. Easiest to sustain and keep up is MM because orbital has a fast cast time and is EASILY part of your single target rotation (same CD as SV).

 

Ofcourse keep SS up, and I use EP when Ambush is on CD or during SV. I noticed that if I break that steady stream of rotation to use EP on cooldown, it brings DPS down a bit (need confirmatin). Also I am specced into 3/3 Engineering with 2/3 Crit chance from Lethality (forgot to add..)

 

Orbital

MM - easily and SHOULD be part of single target rotation, should be used on CD with SV preferrably. MM "single target rotation" should include Orbital Strike

Hybrd / Full Lethaliy - orbital can easily mess up your energy and single target rotation. more caution on orbital use when parsing on the dummy. if successful, you can hit higher numbers. if not, you can end up at the 2400s.. got to be more careful because one mess will lead you to using RS twice in a row even more and that will cost your DPS a lot.

 

Example: See 3 minutes in graph or 180 seconds.

Lethality (single target no orbital) 2450-2550 http://www.torparse.com/a/155993/time/1362595294/1362595915/0/Overview

Lethality (single target no orbital) 2450-2550 http://www.torparse.com/a/155351/time/1362627136/1362627676/0/Overview

MM "single target rotation" (with orbital) 2700 http://www.torparse.com/a/156014/time/1362597347/1362597533/0/Overview

 

Updated the OP as well

Edited March 7, 2013 by paowee

[DroidDreamer]

They were all done with 0 Crit rating 0 Alacrity. I got Accuracy to ~100%, and once that was done rest was into Power/Surge (enhancements)

 

So the new ideal stats are Accuracy to 100% (I presume that also means Tech Accuracy 110%) and then the rest in Power with zero Crit Rating and Zero Alacrity?

 

Do you stack 52 Cunning/40 Power mods over the 65 Cunning/13 Power mods? <-- Those numbers maybe slightly off since I am doing them from memory. I suppose that would be the case since Cunning is subject to the more stringent diminishing returns in 2.0 while Power is not, correct?

 

Thank you for all of your help and information!

[paowee]

So the new ideal stats are Accuracy to 100% (I presume that also means Tech Accuracy 110%) and then the rest in Power with zero Crit Rating and Zero Alacrity?

 

Do you stack 52 Cunning/40 Power mods over the 65 Cunning/13 Power mods? <-- Those numbers maybe slightly off since I am doing them from memory. I suppose that would be the case since Cunning is subject to the more stringent diminishing returns in 2.0 while Power is not, correct?

 

Thank you for all of your help and information!

 

I'm not claiming those stats to be the optimal stats for PTS! It's just personal preference and from what ive gathered reading the PTS and other people's posts. I don't have any proof or math that an all power build is going to give you the most DPS.

 

I use the 52 Cunning/40 power mods yes.